Japanese earthquake / tsunami discussion

Jimmy Garlic

shedweller wrote: »

Is this true?
http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=japans-two-incompatible-power-grids-2011-03-25

How could this happen?

Variable frequency transformers would solve that problem.

gbee

Zayden Hallowed Bayonet wrote: »

Way off topic, but I was planning a trip to thailand, should I still go? Its about 2750 miles away from fukuishima.

Do but bring sunglasses and drink lager, loooong cooooool refreshing pints of the stuff, erm, just go.

andrew

From the BBC: Viewpoint: We should stop running away from radiation

Overheal

take everything wrote: »

In fairness, half of it decays (not all of it) in 8 days.

Admittedly I only looked over it briefly. My thinking was when half the matter decayed the remaining matter formed the new element.

And no Im not a disinformation agent for TEPCO I just dont think its suitable to worry - unless you live in Japan. TEPCO is diffinitely withholding information but internationally, I think we are getting the full story about where this radiation is going when it gets out and how much of it there is.

andrew

Latest Update from the IAEA

White 'smoke' is still emanating from units 1, 2, 3 and 4

Overheal wrote: »

And no Im not a disinformation agent for TEPCO

Of all the things one could reasonably expect to have to deny in their lifetime, that is definitely not one of them

jackiebaron

Now who's the clown who said that the radiation leaking from this debacle is less than a fücking cat-scan? Water around Fukushima is now 1800 times above a safe level. Can't wait to eat some of that sushi.

Overheal

jackiebaron wrote: »

Now who's the clown who said that the radiation leaking from this debacle is less than a fücking cat-scan? Water around Fukushima is now 1800 times above a safe level. Can't wait to eat some of that sushi.

And 2 weeks ago that would have been the case. :rolleyes:

Grim.

:eek:

Reuters Reuters Top News
Japan plant operator says radioactivity in water at reactor No. 2 is 10 million times usual level, workers evacuated - local media

Overheal

Well thats not good..

How recent is that? We've seen levels spike and recede before, and temporary evacuations.

Whats the normal level though 10 million times X is still Y = an unknown variable.

andrew

If it's water which was in the reactor vessel and has leaked out, 1) is it really that dangerous and 2) surely it's to be expected?

Overheal

Maybe?

if it leaks out and steams up it would carry uranium and caesium out.

andrew

Overheal wrote: »

Maybe?

if it leaks out and steams up it would carry uranium and caesium out.

I got the impression it had settled in 'stagnant pools' and so wasn't in much danger of steaming up, but is a hazard to the workers there for sure.

Grim.

no idea what normal levels are just following this as it breaks on twitter

Reuters Reuters Top News
FLASH: #Japan plant operator confirms high radiation, evacuates workers from reactor's turbine building

Run_to_da_hills

If radiation remains extremely high they can't very well abandon the plant indefinitely, why don't they just do as the Russians did
and burry the damn thing asap.

gbee

Wasn't Reactor No2 the one they thought the suppression chamber had cracked after and explosion?

How many Reactors are leaking coolant? If I am getting the reports right ~ not easy with so much going one and news conferences being denied later in the day and so fourth, but it seems like two reactors are leaking. No2 & No3.

It had been said that as the water contained iodine, and the spent fuel would not contain isodine, that the water had to be from the cores [somehow].

All I'm getting on the usual news is the clean up of the tsunami and the low microsievert reports. Upstream seems to be gone, live news seems to be gone. ??

gbee

8:00PM local Japan: 10,000,000 times the normal level found inside nuclear reactors:

Water samples: 1000mSv or 2.9 Billion Bq in turbine building No2 reactor and read above the limit of the gauge.

Iodine 134 & 131 Caesium 134 [found in water]

High levels of radiation including iodine [2 types] but the reactor is off for a 1/2 month now. No2 reactor suppression chamber may be damaged.

Current data does not indicate that the current substances are leaking from the reactor. They cannot deny that the leak is indicating damage in the suppression chamber but have no data.

ME: if I read this correctly, it seems the reactor No2 is actually still active? Right 134mCs (with a half-life of just under 3 hours), ? 4 to 5 hours in here at these levels are lethal.

el diablo

andrew wrote: »

From the BBC: Viewpoint: We should stop running away from radiation

Interesting article.. thanks.

Rob A. Bank

gbee wrote: »

8:00PM local Japan: 10,000,000 times the normal level found inside nuclear reactors:

ME: if I read this correctly, it seems the reactor No2 is actually still active? Right 134mCs (with a half-life of just under 3 hours), ? 4 to 5 hours in here at these levels are lethal.

This is very very bad news indeed, if what they are reporting is true.

The radioactive reading may actually be higher than 10,000,000 times the normal level , because they say it exceeded the range of the counter.

The levels are such that a person can not spend more than 10 or 15 mins close to it, which will severely complicate stabilizing at the reactors.

They found Iodine 134, a fission product which has a half-life of 53 minutes.

This isotope loses half its radioactive atoms every 53 minutes so it should all be gone in 530 minutes.

This means that it was created by uncontrolled and uncontained nuclear fission in the previous few hours, maybe in a severely damaged reactor or in the spent rod pool. This nuclear fission could also possibly generate enough heat to burn its way through steel and concrete.

Things seem to be going out of control again.

:eek:

peasant

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

This is very very bad news indeed, if what they are reporting is true.

The radioactive reading may actually be higher than 10,000,000 times the normal level , because they say it exceeded the range of the counter.

The levels are such that a person can not spend more than 10 or 15 mins close to it, which will severely complicate stabilizing at the reactors.

They found Iodine 134, a fission product which has a half-life of 53 minutes.

This isotope loses half its radioactive atoms every 53 minutes so it should all be gone in 530 minutes.

This means that it was created by uncontrolled and uncontained nuclear fission in the previous few hours, maybe in a severely damaged reactor or in the spent rod pool. This nuclear fission could also possibly generate enough heat to burn its way through steel and concrete.

Things seem to be going out of control again.

:eek:

According to "Der Spiegel" http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,753407-2,00.html we're not talking about just "puddles" of highly contaminated water but massive amounts of it in the basements of the reactors. Reactor 1 - 40cm; Reactor 2 - 1.0 m; reactor 3 (the one with the plutonium) - 1.5m; Reactor 4 - 80 cm high.

This of course is a massive problem in that all of that highly contaminated water has to be safely disposed of before they can even think about investigating further and getting things fixed.

How do you remove cubic meters over cubic meters of highly radioactive water without killing people?

vibe666

looks like someone at TEPCO didn't do their sums right before their last press release.

TEPCO retracts radioactivity test result
Tokyo Electric Power Company has retracted its announcement that 10 million times the normal density of radioactive materials had been detected in water at the Number 2 reactor of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant.

The utility says it will conduct another test of the leaked water at the reactor's turbine building.

The company said on Sunday evening that the data for iodine-134 announced earlier in the day was actually for another substance that has a longer half-life.

The plant operator said earlier on Sunday that 2.9 billion becquerels per cubic centimeter had been detected in the leaked water.

It said although the initial figure was wrong, the water still has a high level of radioactivity of 1,000 millisieverts per hour.
Sunday, March 27, 2011 22:02 +0900 (JST)

vibe666

Awesome Rescuer is Awesome!

No doubt many stories of heroism in the face of Japan's recent tsunami will emerge in the upcoming weeks—one is happening in the Fukushima Daiichi plant as I write this, in fact—but the latest is so beautiful and fantastical that it seems primed for a Hollywood movie.

Meet Hideaki Akaiwa, 43. Startled at work by the now infamous earthquake and tsunami that shook and overtook Japan on March 11, Akaiwa rushed to high ground and immediately called his wife of two decades. When she didn't answer, Akaiwa ignored friends' pleas to wait for a military rescue, instead rummaging up some scuba gear and diving into the dark, cold, debris-filled tsunami. Hundreds of yards of swimming later, Akaiwa found his wife struggling against the 10-foot current that had overtaken the couple's Ishinomaki home.

Overheal

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2011/03/department_of_p.html?rss_id=Top+Stories

Low levels of radioactive iodine likely resulting from the nuclear accident in Japan have been detected in a sample of rainwater in Massachusetts, state health officials said today.

The amounts of radioiodine are "very low concentrations" and should have "no impact on state drinking water supplies," the Department of Public Health said in a statement.

The sample was taken during the past week as part of regular monitoring of radioactivity on the environment by the US Environmental Protection Agency. No detectable increases in radiation have been discovered in the air, the statement said, and there are no expected public health concerns.

"The drinking water supply in Massachusetts is unaffected by this short-term, slight elevation in radiation," said John Auerbach, commissioner of the Department of Public Health. "However, we will carefully monitor the drinking water as we exercise an abundance of caution."

bradlente

vibe666 wrote: »

Awesome Rescuer is Awesome!

"he's spent the past two weeks heading into Ishinomaki in search of other trapped survivors. Armed with a backpack, a flashlight, a Swiss Army knife, and some water, he rides his bike around the wreckage and makes his own destiny."

Haha what a legend!

Sunnyisland

Horizon special on earthquake now....BBC 2

vibe666

there was another 6.1 quake off the coast of japan last night and it's barely even made the news.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/usc0002cqa.php

seemingly there was a brief tsunami warning, but it was rescinded again pretty quickly.

the poor feckers just don't seem to be able to get a break.

Rob A. Bank

TEPCO re-tested their sample and found something completely different... they give scary numbers, then retract those scary numbers.
Makes you wonder about the accuracy of all their results to date.

TEPCO has "ruled out having an independent monitor oversee the various checks" in response to questions about the radiation and isotope measurements.

It took them 10 days to identify a piece of machinery (concrete pump with long boom) that can pour water into spent fuel pools better than firefighters and helicopters.

What I can't understand is why TEPCO is still handling this situation.

They are just one of 10 companies in Japan who run the nuclear plants there and dont seem to have expertese to deal with this. They are simply reacting to an evolving situation and not making any moves to take charge of it.

When Chernobyl blew up the whole of the Soviet Union was mobilized to deal with it... not just Kiev Electric.

Meanwhile the situation goes from bad to worse...

Rob A. Bank

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KZ1BvInymw

A recent flypast showing the devastation caused by the explosions and the presence of a lot of steam.

Looks like quite a lot of cooling to be done before things stabilize.

Rob A. Bank

A photo of the type of reactor in Fukushema under construction… you can judge the enormous size from the men on the scaffolding.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/Browns_Ferry_Unit_1_under_construction.jpg

peasant

According to Reuters Germany and Euronews the Japanese governement has admitted that nuclear meltdown has indeed already happened at the plant.

Can't find an English speaking source for this at the moment

vibe666

peasant wrote: »

According to Reuters Germany and Euronews the Japanese governement has admitted that nuclear meltdown has indeed already happened at the plant.

Can't find an English speaking source for this at the moment

google translate?

or chrome does it automatically with the google tranaslate plugin.