Japanese earthquake / tsunami discussion

peasant

here's the link to the Reuters article, you'll have to translate it yourself (or wait another while until it gets picked up in other languages )

http://de.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idDEBEE72R06220110328

novarock

German to English translation
TOKYO (Reuters) - More than two weeks after the devastating earthquake and tsunami in Japan, the government has admitted that it is broken down nuclear power plant in Fukushima already suffered a meltdown.

The high radiation exposure in the water of a reactor of the power station is due to the fuel rods had melted some and the highly contaminated material had come into contact with cooling water, government spokesman Yukio Edano said on Monday. His comments did not suggest that the outer shell of the reactor was damaged. The meltdown was probably shortly after the events of 11 Held in March, the Japanese government.

In the fight against the nuclear threat from further distinguished himself not a quick success. At the weekend the work had to be canceled as two entirely due to excessive exposure to radiation. The government was now serious accusations against the operator of the power plant, Tokyo Electric Power (TEPCO).

Tepco had announced on Sunday evening, the published values ​​for radiation exposure were false and had been given so much too high. The company makes a more helpless feeling, as it wants to get to grips with the disaster. Unfortunately, it does not give a specific timetable in order to state clearly whether in as many months or years, the crisis over, "said Vice President Tepco Sakae Muto. TEPCO shares tumbled in Tokyo by almost 18 percent.

EXPERT: "IMPORTANT THAN AN AIRPLANE ZONE ON LIBYA"

International experts fear that the situation was more serious than officially stated. According to the nuclear experts Najmedin Meshkati from the University of Southern California, Japan is not able to handle the crisis alone. "This is much more than what a nation can handle alone," he said and called for intervention by the UN Security Council. "In my opinion this is important as a no-fly zone over Libya." In order to address the crisis in Libya in the handle, the international community via the UN resolution and with the participation of NATO a no-fly zone in the North African country established.

In the recent natural disasters in Japan as at time 27,000 people were killed or disappeared. Many workers in Fukushima were contaminated. In the capital, Tokyo, about 240 kilometers were removed from the nuclear power plant in the drinking water increased radiation detected.

On the night of Monday was the North East of Japan once again rocked by an earthquake. It had a magnitude of 6.5. A tsunami warning was lifted a little later. Reports of damage were not available. The heaviest ever recorded quake in Japan on 11th March had a magnitude of 9.0 and triggered a ten-meter high tsunami wave.

http://de.reuters.com/article/topNews/idDEBEE72R06220110328

el diablo

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

A photo of the type of reactor in Fukushema under construction… you can judge the enormous size from the men on the scaffolding.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/Browns_Ferry_Unit_1_under_construction.jpg

The Japanese are known for being quite short in stature.

My name is URL

It's 32 years today since the Three Mile Island meltdown - http://www.npr.org/2011/03/28/134914539/its-been-32-years-since-tmis-partial-core-meltdown

Mister men

I find it appauling that this story is'nt getting more air time worldwide. Seriously if Wayne Rooney went off and shagged another hooker it would more than likely be all over the front pages, meanwhile we are witnessing an unimagineable disaster unfold before our eyes in Japan. Jesus wept.

cherryghost

So they've definitely identified a leak now

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12881015

Run_to_da_hills

My name is URL wrote: »

It's 32 years today since the Three Mile Island meltdown - http://www.npr.org/2011/03/28/134914539/its-been-32-years-since-tmis-partial-core-meltdown

There is no comparison between this incident and Three Mile Island.

Three Mile Island was contained, this is anything but.

peasant

So to sum it all up:

- We have confirmed (partial) meltdown in one or more reactors
- We have highly radiocative water pooling by the cubic metre in the basement of one or more reactors
- We have at least one leak where this highly radioctive water has made it outside of the containment building

Pretty much everything that could have gone wrong, has gone wrong.

The only thing that we haven't heard of yet is Plutonium from reactor three making it into the athmosphere or into the water. The only remaining question really is ...is the Plutonium still contained, do they know if it isn't and if so, would they tell?

Run_to_da_hills

Episodes of The Simpsons which joke about reactor meltdowns banned in Germany, Switzerland and Austria.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1370720/The-Simpsons-episodes-joke-reactor-meltdowns-banned-Germany-Switzerland-Austria.html

My name is URL

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

There is no comparison between this incident and Three Mile Island.

Three Mile Island was contained, this is anything but.

I know.. I wasn't trying to compare the two. Just found it interesting that the meltdown in Japan was confirmed on the anniversary of 3 Mile Island's meltdown.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Episodes of The Simpsons which joke about reactor meltdowns banned in Germany, Switzerland and Austria.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1370720/The-Simpsons-episodes-joke-reactor-meltdowns-banned-Germany-Switzerland-Austria.html

ffs!

Overheal

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Episodes of The Simpsons which joke about reactor meltdowns banned in Germany, Switzerland and Austria.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1370720/The-Simpsons-episodes-joke-reactor-meltdowns-banned-Germany-Switzerland-Austria.html

In fairness at least one of those simpsons moments was pretty dark, with the kids huddled around the couch and kent brockman in panic. How does Homer solve it? With Eenie Meenie Miney Moe.

Mister men wrote: »

I find it appauling that this story is'nt getting more air time worldwide. Seriously if Wayne Rooney went off and shagged another hooker it would more than likely be all over the front pages, meanwhile we are witnessing an unimagineable disaster unfold before our eyes in Japan. Jesus wept.

In fairness at this point it would just be Fear-Mongering. There is no imminent threat to You is there? Nor is there an imminent threat to Me. When there is we'll be notified. I've already been notified of negligible amounts of radiation in Massachusetts rainwater. Excuse me while I run to my fallout shelter. :rolleyes:

up for anything

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/81589.html

URGENT: Plutonium detected in soil at Fukushima nuke plant: TEPCO
TOKYO, March 28, Kyodo

Plutonium has been detected in soil at five locations at the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, Tokyo Electric Power Co. said Monday.

The operator of the nuclear complex said that the plutonium is believed to have been discharged from nuclear fuel at the plant, which was damaged by the March 11 earthquake and tsunami.

==Kyodo

Run_to_da_hills

up for anything wrote: »

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/81589.html

Plutonium leak.

Bad news.

bradlente

Overheal wrote: »

In fairness at this point it would just be Fear-Mongering. There is no imminent threat to You is there? Nor is there an imminent threat to Me. When there is we'll be notified. I've already been notified of negligible amounts of radiation in Massachusetts rainwater. Excuse me while I run to my fallout shelter. :rolleyes:

It's fear-mongering the way all big media report anything remotely threatening nowadays,But that post did have a point.The most trivial national news including celebrity gossip will soon be reported ahead of this or at the same level as importance as this.

In a months time the Royal wedding will ****in everywhere!

take everything

Overheal wrote: »

In fairness at this point it would just be Fear-Mongering. There is no imminent threat to You is there? Nor is there an imminent threat to Me. When there is we'll be notified. I've already been notified of negligible amounts of radiation in Massachusetts rainwater. Excuse me while I run to my fallout shelter. :rolleyes:

But if it's covered accurately surely that's OK.
I know Sky can sensationalise so maybe not them.
But i can't understand why the BBC haven't been covering it more.
With the uncertainty yesterday about the levels, it would be nice to know what exactly is going on (what's known, what's unknown etc).

Run_to_da_hills

bradlente wrote: »

It's fear-mongering the way all big media report anything remotely threatening nowadays,But that post did have a point.The most trivial national news including celebrity gossip will soon be reported ahead of this or at the same level as importance as this.

In a months time the Royal wedding will ****in everywhere!

There is a borderline between making people aware for their own safety and fear-mongering. Personally if I was living in Japan anywhere near the plant I would like to know exactly what is going on.

gargleblaster

take everything wrote: »

But if it's covered accurately surely that's OK.
I know Sky can sensationalise so maybe not them.
But i can't understand why the BBC haven't been covering it more.
With the uncertainty yesterday about the levels, it would be nice to know what exactly is going on (what's known, what's unknown etc).

they discussed it on gmt on bbc this afternoon. still referring to it as a 'partial meltdown', which is the same thing we've been hearing for over a week now.

perhaps the reason why this development isn't being so widely reported is they really have nothing new to say (e.g. the old 'partial meltdown' information), because the japanese authorities seem to be unable to (or refusing to) give anyone a clear picture of exactly what is going on.

cherryghost

So just to clarify on todays news:

The effort to cool reactors at the damaged nuclear power plant in Fukushima, northern Japan, is facing the risk of leaking highly radioactive substances.

The plant's operator, Tokyo Electric Power Company, raised water pumping power on Sunday to cool the No. 2 reactor in a stable manner. On Monday, the company cut back on the amount of injected water.

The move followed the Nuclear Safety Commission's announcement that highly radioactive substances detected in puddles of water in the basement of the reactor's turbine building may have come directly from the vessel containing the reactor.

16 tons of water was being injected into the reactor every hour but TEPCO now says it wants to reduce the amount to 7 tons. This would be enough to replace the amount that is evaporating.

If the injected water level is reduced, temperatures may increase in the reactor.

TEPCO announced on Monday that radioactive substances 100,000 times higher than usual for water in a reactor core were detected in puddles in the No. 2 reactor's turbine building on Sunday.

High radiation figures were also recorded earlier in water in the basements of the turbine buildings for the No. 1 and No. 3 reactors. On Thursday, 3 workers were exposed to high radiation while working in water at the No. 3 reactor's turbine building.

The Nuclear Safety Commission said on Monday that the concentration of radiation at the No. 2 reactor was dozens of times higher than the other 2 reactors.

The commission said it assumes that radioactive substances from temporarily melted fuel rods at the No. 2 reactor had made their way into water in the reactor containment vessel and then leaked out through an unknown route.

TEPCO, later, reported that very high levels of radiation have also been observed in water in a trench just outside the turbine building for one of the reactors.

The commission said the biggest concern is the possibility of highly radioactive water seeping into the ground and the ocean. It added that all-out efforts should be made to prevent contaminated water from leaking and called on the government to intensify monitoring radiation levels in the ground water and seawater.

So my understanding is that the water volume was so much that there was direct radiated water leakage from the containment vessel into the trench. The water volume was reduced by more than half in anticpation that the evaporation wouldn't exceed the water input, and thus reduce the amount of radiated water leakage amounts.

bradlente

What really gets me right now is the difference in evacuation scale between the US's recommendation and TEPCO/Japan/whoever implemented the official evacuation area.

They're both completely different.One is either overestimating the damage or one is making a grave underestimation.

I know which one I'd prefer to implement...

andrew

Radioactive water isn't a huge deal. There's still no mechanism by which it could spread beyond the reactor basement, never mind the exclusion zone, and still hurt anyone.

peasant

andrew wrote: »

Radioactive water isn't a huge deal. There's still no mechanism by which it could spread beyond the reactor basement, never mind the exclusion zone, and still hurt anyone.

Reactor-> water-> ocean-> fish-> sushi-> you

(AKA food chain)

andrew

peasant wrote: »

Reactor-> water-> ocean-> fish-> sushi-> you

(AKA food chain)

Reactor-> water->ocean->massive dilution-> fish-> sushi-> you

Jimmy Garlic

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Episodes of The Simpsons which joke about reactor meltdowns banned in Germany, Switzerland and Austria.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1370720/The-Simpsons-episodes-joke-reactor-meltdowns-banned-Germany-Switzerland-Austria.html

Idiots. I can see them now...Ve muzt not joke abozt zis...

Jimmy Garlic

andrew wrote: »

Reactor-> water->ocean->massive dilution-> fish-> sushi-> you

Didn't your hear Ann Coulter? - Radiation is good for you.

andrew

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Didn't your hear Ann Coulter? - Radiation is good for you.

Well, it's not good for you. It's just not as bad for you as most people assume. But Ann Coulter is batshit insane.

peasant

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Plutonium leak.

Bad news.

Bad news indeed.
Wasn't just "smoke" that came out of reactor three then ....

Plutonium has been detected in soil at five locations at the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, Tokyo Electric Power Co. said Monday.

The operator of the nuclear complex said that the plutonium is believed to have been discharged from nuclear fuel at the plant, which was damaged by the March 11 earthquake and tsunami.

peasant

andrew wrote: »

Reactor-> water->ocean->massive dilution-> fish-> sushi-> you

Ehhh no ...

Reactor-> water->ocean->Bioaccumulation-> fish-> sushi-> you

take everything

they discussed it on gmt on bbc this afternoon.

Yeah.
It seems to be cursory coverage.
Fiona Bruce on the BBC news has just told me the situation is worsening.
That's it- no other detail as to how or why it's worsening.

perhaps the reason why this development isn't being so widely reported is they really have nothing new to say

The situation is recently worsening, isn't it? There was confusion recently about the exact amounts of radiation workers were exposed to. I don't think the situation is unchanging. Isn't this newsworthy?

because the japanese authorities seem to be unable to (or refusing to) give anyone a clear picture of exactly what is going on.

Surely this apparent (deliberate?) misinformation/confusion is newsworthy?

jackiebaron

andrew wrote: »

Well, it's not good for you. It's just not as bad for you as most people assume. But Ann Coulter is batshit insane.

Yeah, SOLAR radiation is good for you (but not in massive doses). Vitamin D and all that.

Wasn't it McCain who said that trees cause pollution because they emit CO2??
They're nuts.

Next thing that Coulter nutjob will be saying that Gulf crude oil and Corexit are good for your skin even as the cleanup workers have already started dying.

vibe666

bradlente wrote: »

It's fear-mongering the way all big media report anything remotely threatening nowadays,But that post did have a point.The most trivial national news including celebrity gossip will soon be reported ahead of this or at the same level as importance as this.

In a months time the Royal wedding will ****in everywhere!

there was an article last week saying that CNN had 50 people in Japan after the tsunami, but that they are sending 400 to cover the royal wedding.

i do believe i said at the time though that they're just reporting on what sells so who's to blame really?