Japanese earthquake / tsunami discussion

JazzyJ

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

No I think it is a seperate plant, they have similar names though. Fukushima Daiichi and Fukushima Daini.

Yeah 11.5km apart going by wiki.

iguana

Japan's urban search and rescue team left New Zealand today to return to Japan, having been working in Christchurch since last month:

The team was planning to leave Christchurch this weekend, and brought forward their departure time in response to the earthquake and tsunami that struck Japan last night.

That's just so sad.:(

amacachi

Ficheall wrote: »

You might view it as slightly more than **** all if you weren't quite so far away from danger...

Or I might use logic. Generally the "usual level" will be a couple of orders of magnitude below what's considered perfectly safe, and even above perfectly safe it isn't far off. A 5% increased cancer risk is hardly a suicide mission.

Micky Dolenz

iguana wrote: »

That's just so sad.:(

Yeah, they have worked so hard to help others and now have to return to help their own.

Sardonicat

On a slightly more positive note, NHK live stream have just shown footage of some people being resuced in one of the tsunami affected areas.(Yamamoto town)

After watching the horrifying footage of the tsunami swamp towns it's good to see survivers being reached at last.

To those of you who have loved ones in Japan I hope they ( and you) are doing ok.

Killer Pigeon

A 3 mile radius evacuation zone has been declared around a second nuclear power plant - skynews.

Thrill

Sardonicat wrote: »

On a slightly more positive note, NHK live stream have just shown footage of some people being resuced in one of the tsunami affected areas.

After watching the horrifying footage of the tsunami swamp towns it's good to see survivers being reached at last.

To those of you who have loved ones in Japan I hope they ( and you) are doing ok.

Just heard on sky that all 81 passengers were rescued safely.

Turtwig

Your units are a little off:

They aren't actually I meant 1mSv as 1 x10^-3 Sv.:)

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

So the average human gets a massively lethal dose each year?

I just googled that 2.7mSv I'm almost 100% certain it's true but I cannot find it on google apart from my own post:o.:( (yet:)) . That's far from lethal its about 1/10 of a percent.

Edit : At the very least it looks to be in the ballpark.

languagenerd

Obviously not including the nuclear problem here (which is terrifying) but I think it's incredible that so little damage was done to the cities. Their infrastructure is amazing. To think that a quake ~20% more powerful than the one that levelled Haiti could strike a country and most of the buildings remain standing... Not only that, but the news have been showing vids all day of computers toppling off desks or food smashed on the floor in supermarkets - in most other countries, there'd be no-one able to post those videos!!

It's also incredible that the immediate death toll was so relatively small compared to the population of 127 million. Over 99% of the population survived - if this had happened in almost any other country, there would be hundreds of thousands dead. Obviously, I don't mean to understate the 300-500 people who have died (even one death is tragic, 500 people killed in one day is horrific) but it could have been much, much, much worse.

It's going to be a nightmarish few days for the Japanese, but I think we should recognise the huge achievement they made in preventing a further, immense, unimaginable number of casualties.

Ficheall

amacachi wrote: »

Or I might use logic. Generally the "usual level" will be a couple of orders of magnitude below what's considered perfectly safe, and even above perfectly safe it isn't far off. A 5% increased cancer risk is hardly a suicide mission.

I can appreciate that, but some people reading the thread will be worried about individuals over there, and "aragh, it's no big deal " type posts may offend...

Killer Pigeon

A ship carrying 81 people that was swept out to sea by the reseeding tsunami waters has been found intact with all 81 people alive. They have been airlifted to safety - skynews.

Turtwig

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

A 3 mile radius evacuation zone has been declared around a second nuclear power plant - skynews.

SOP really.

Sardonicat

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

A 3 mile radius evacuation zone has been declared around a second nuclear power plant - skynews.

According to Japanese news, it's 3 kms

Stinicker

The Fukushima plant appears to be entering Meltdown, Japan gets hit by its biggest ever Earthquake and mega tsunamis and yet the biggest disaster of all will be mankinds sheer arrogance to try and control Nuclear Fission.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-sci-japan-quake-nuclear-20110312,0,2627198.story

Chernobyl MkII it looks like for a country still suffering the effects of Mankinds only ever use of Nuclear weapons in aggression.

amacachi

Ficheall wrote: »

I can appreciate that, but some people reading the thread will be worried about individuals over there, and "aragh, it's no big deal " type posts may offend...

Well they're being too sensitive then. I'm not understating the terrible events that have happened but there's no point scaremongering. I'd find it more offensive if people are being told of a massive danger when there is none.

Metallitroll

languagenerd wrote: »

.. Obviously not including the nuclear problem here (which is terrifying) but I think it's incredible that so little damage was done to the cities. Their infrastructure is amazing. To think that a quake ~20% more powerful than the one that levelled Haiti could strike a country and most of the buildings remain standing... Not only that, but the news have been showing vids all day of computers toppling off desks or food smashed on the floor in supermarkets ..

of course. see how workers high up in swaying towerblocks are more concerned with TV sets that may or have fallen over, for instance.

priorities :cool: but yeah testament

amacachi

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

A ship carrying 81 people that was swept out to sea by the reseeding tsunami waters has been found intact with all 81 people alive. They have been airlifted to safety - skynews.

Awesome. Unfortunately I dont expect there to be the usual week or so of survivors as there is with Earthquakes but some good news is better than none.

Sardonicat

Thrill wrote: »

Just heard on sky that all 81 passengers were rescued safely.

Do you mean from the ship that was washed away by the tsunami? If so, thats fantastic.

BTW, they are predicting more tsunamies and advising evacuation of coastal areas. I presume they are being cautious, but even so, what an horrific time for those in the coastal parts of Japan.

Killer Pigeon

Sardonicat wrote: »

According to Japanese news, it's 3 kms

Well I'm getting this from skynews, a British news agency, and they still use imperial metrics so there was probably some confusion in the relay of information.

languagenerd

Metallitroll wrote: »

of course. see how workers high up in swaying towerblocks are more concerned with TV sets that may or have fallen over, for instance.

priorities :cool: but yeah testament

I know, I know, but I just think that the measures they take when constructing towerblocks saved countless lives today and should be mentioned! Imagine all of those buildings had fallen. We'd be looking at potentially millions missing.

Turtwig

Sardonicat wrote: »

BTW, they are predicting more tsunamies and advising evacuation of coastal areas. I presume they are being cautious, but even so, what an horrific time for those in the coastal parts of Japan.

Just curious does anyone if there's ever been a significant recorded second "wave" of tsunami. By this I mean once the main event is over an after shock triggers another set several hours later?

Pompey Magnus

The American Embassy in Tokyo is advising all Americans in a 10km radius of Fukushima power plant to evacuate immediately.

Thrill

All 6 units of Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station have been shut down.

http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/11031203-e.html

amacachi

Malty_T wrote: »

Just curious does anyone if there's ever been a significant recorded second "wave" of tsunami. By this I mean once the main event is over an after shock triggers another set several hours later?

None that I know of, though I don't focus on seismology that much. Generally it takes a >Magnitude 8 earthquake for a tsunami so the 5s and 6s are more or less harmless. Well, other than for those digging through heavy rubble right now.
EDIT: The odds of another >8 quake now would be very slim, though the amount of aftershocks is pretty interesting in itself as well.

Turtwig

Thrill wrote: »

All 6 units of Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station have been shut down.

http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/11031203-e.html

They were shut down ages ago, the problem is that the heat within reactors core's needs to be dissipated.

Stinicker wrote: »

The Fukushima plant appears to be entering Meltdown, Japan gets hit by its biggest ever Earthquake and mega tsunamis and yet the biggest disaster of all will be mankinds sheer arrogance to try and control Nuclear Fission.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-sci-japan-quake-nuclear-20110312,0,2627198.story

Chernobyl MkII it looks like for a country still suffering the effects of Mankinds only ever use of Nuclear weapons in aggression.

No, just no. The internal reactor may be damaged but a meltdown is unlikely and meltdown alá Chernobyl should be extremely unlikely. All of this is assuming the plants are well designed and followed stringent safety procedures; Chernobyl didn't.

Ficheall

Malty_T wrote: »

All of this is assuming the plants are well designed and followed stringent safety procedures; Chernobyl didn't.

The http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-sci-japan-quake-nuclear-20110312,0,2627198.story article says the plant uses some of the "oldest nuclear technology" some of which dates back to the 60s.
Is that cause for concern?

Turtwig

Ficheall wrote: »

The http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-sci-japan-quake-nuclear-20110312,0,2627198.story article says the plant uses some of the "oldest nuclear technology" some of which dates back to the 60s.
Is that cause for concern?

Shouldn't be unless they cut corners.
That said if it used modern gas cooling techniques this problem probably wouldn't exist in the first place.

damoz

I am due to go to Japan in a couple of weeks. The scenes today were horrific. I hope the excellent engineering and resourcefulness of the Japanese people will keep the death toll down. If this was a 3rd world country all buildings would be down.

amacachi

Ficheall wrote: »

The http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-sci-japan-quake-nuclear-20110312,0,2627198.story article says the plant uses some of the "oldest nuclear technology" some of which dates back to the 60s.
Is that cause for concern?

The original reactors may be old designs but I'd be pretty sure all the surrounding infrastructure etc. will have been upgraded several times.

Metallitroll

languagenerd wrote: »

I know, I know, but I just think that the measures they take when constructing towerblocks saved countless TV's today and should be mentioned! Imagine all of those buildings had fallen. We'd be looking at potentially millions missing.

FYP! but yeah. millions instead of somewhere over a thousand, thus far

but you know the japs / sea they are conquerers of it n its inhabitants they utilize it, ponder it, look to it - n it comes and claims these lives; livelihoods. but they'll understand there's nothing spiritual involved; no hoodoo no 'what did we do to deserve this' buddhism does not permit its just the logic of the locale. which they are well versed in but there's no preventative methods for this, sadly.