Japanese earthquake / tsunami discussion

Absurdum

0311: A resident of a town near to the worst-hit city of Sendai tells the BBC: "We were shaken very badly by the quake. Unable to stand, everything inside the house just fell down. A large number of people in this town have actually had to be evacuated to schools and gymnasiums because they had no water, no power. It's pretty overwhelming, people here are just like looking gobsmacked by the whole situation.")

0308: The Union of Concerned Scientists is publishing updates on its website covering technical aspects of the nuclear difficulties in Japan.

0304: Mr Lyman goes on to raise the spectre of Chernobyl: "In the worst case the entire core could melt through the steel reactor vessel and escape into the containment building, and then the containment is the only thing that is standing between the radiation in the reactor and the atmosphere. There is a chance if that does occur that there will be over pressure, the containment can fail and you might have a release on the order of the Chernobyl accident."

0302: A similar warning, but with a more doom-laden tone, comes from Edwin Lyman, a senior staff scientist at the Union of Concerned Scientists. He tells Reuters: "We don't have all the information but every indication is that the type of event that occurred there is one of the most serious things that can happen to a nuclear reactor."

0258: Mr Acton adds: "If there is nothing worse than radioactive steam being released into the environment, then there's unlikely to be significant lasting damage to people outside of the plant. If the integrity of the core is lost and the core starts to melt, and much more radioactive steam is leaked out into the environment, then we could be in an extremely serious situation."

0256: More on the nuclear fears: James Acton from the Carnegie Endowment tells the BBC that releasing vapour from the reactors shouldn't damage the environment.

The nuclear situation looks grim

LighterGuy

Its bleeding terrible.

What about these nuclear plants?
is the risk of nuclear radiation? or worse ... it exploding?

chalkitdown

Some live streams of Japanese News are available here;

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/japanhelpchannel

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/tbstv

Overheal

LighterGuy wrote: »

Its bleeding terrible.

What about these nuclear plants?
is the risk of nuclear radiation? or worse ... it exploding?

this thread is large. Search thread for "Overheal" and you will find my previous responses. Suffice to say nuclear power plants cannot become nuclear bombs: the physics just aren't there.

The risk of fukushima exploding are nil. It's under containment, though the short-time loss of cooling caused a bit of a steam buildup which they were forced to purge to atmosphere - this resulted in a measured radiation leakage. We'll know more once the aftershocks stop occurring. All 6 cores were shutdown following the quake. Core 1 though had a failure in it's diesel backup cooling pump system which caused the issue. Once it was brought back online it took some time to bring the temperature back below stable.

Overheal

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

Japanese nuclear agency informs the industry minister that the "failsafe" cooling system at Fukushima no. 2 has failed.

Malty_T wrote: »

Back up battery's are probably gone dry.

The system was Diesel...

I havent been following the situation for the last few hours and I need to get some sleep, but that sounds somewhat troubling. Earlier they reported external power was being supplied to all 6 reactors, meaning the diesels wouldnt have even needed to be still active; the primary cooling should have still been working.

It's getting harder to say whats going on. Theres a lot of Media Lag going on and its unclear whether people are reporting cooling failures that are new or from 12 hours ago. Last I checked the system in one of the cores failed, was brought back online a few hours later and they were planning to dump steam build-up to keep the system stable while the temperature in the reactor was brought back down.

I have trouble trusting all these newer timestamps on google news though - like for example some are saying "45 mins ago" that they are 'planning' to vent radioactive steam, when i know from having CNN on earlier that they had already done so. Some reports however are saying now that a 2nd plant's cooling system also encountered complications :http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2011-03-11-japan-quake-reactors_N.htm?csp=34news

Nothing more to do now but sleep and see how the situation looks in the morning. They have about 24 hours before the coolant problem reaches dangerous levels - that's when the water levels in the system become so low that the fuel rods become exposed to air. The potential for fire then becomes a concern. But I'm not too concerned, this is a top priority to disaster response. They will do their jobs to prevent things from getting out of hand. The reactors are all already shut down as well, so it's really just a game to see what runs down first, the coolant or the temperatures. Meanwhile steam may continue to be vented from the plants.

AskMyChocolate

Heh gang,

I'm afraid I'm woefully ignorant on these things; does anybody know what the likely damage to the marine environment is likely to be due to the venting of the radioactive steam and what damage would be caused in the worst-case scenario of a radioactive leak or ,God forbid, a meltdown?

I believe there should be no immediate threat to human life but Japan depends hugely on it's marine environment. I realise that a huge quantity of the fish they consume is imported so this won't be affected, but they also have a large domestic fishing industry. Is this likely to be affected, and if so, to what extent, and how long would it take for the marine environment to recover?

Anyone know anything about this?

AMC

Overheal

AskMyChocolate wrote: »

Heh gang,

I'm afraid I'm woefully ignorant on these things; does anybody know what the likely damage to the marine environment is likely to be due to the venting of the radioactive steam and what damage would be caused in the worst-case scenario of a radioactive leak or ,God forbid, a meltdown?

I believe there should be no immediate threat to human life but Japan depends hugely on it's marine environment. I realise that a huge quantity of the fish they consume is imported so this won't be affected, but they also have a large domestic fishing industry. Is this likely to be affected, and if so, to what extent, and how long would it take for the marine environment to recover?

Anyone know anything about this?

AMC

Someone was telling me earlier in thread that chernobyl ultimately has had a positive effect on nature and wildlife. and three mile island despite being a real cluster**** never caused any radiation of consequence, or casualties for that matter. they found slightly elevated radiation levels in local deer but not higher than that of when above-ground weapons testing took place during the cold war, not by a longshot.

I expect the damage would be minimal if all it amounts to is steam over the next day or two. any further complications will need to be looked at in their own merits. afaik though the likelihood of meltdown in one of the cores is very unlikely but it will all depend on coolant: Chernobyl and TMI resulted from control rod issues. in comparison all of these cores automatically SCRAM'd successfully and as designed when the reactors detected seismic activity.

Overheal

digme wrote: »

there's a lot of nuclear engineers in bed on laptops throughout Ireland tonight..........

:P

Well someone has to google this stuff. Can't leave people running around panicked thinking one of these reactors is going to cause the end of mankind or something.

Besides I didn't learn it on google I learned it on discovery channel a long time ago and am brushing up on it with google now. There is a huge difference.



http://www.kansascity.com/2011/03/11/2719409/japan-quake-causes-emergencies.html

this information seems up to date and explains the failure in backup diesels was down to the flooding. battery backups worked for a while. Must get some sleep but here's hoping they can successfully manage to keep all of the reactors stable while they cool down.

the irony is these nuclear plants could power themselves but that might only exacerbate the problem. interested in why they dont have, or lost their uplink to the rest of the national grid. inland power supplies could otherwise keep the pumps running i would assume? Anywho..

Japanese official saying meltdown possible....

http://beaconnews.suntimes.com/4275556-417/nuclear-meltdown-possible-at-plant-says-japan-official.html

bradlente

A fuel rod has melted at Fukushima according to CNN.How bad could that be?Not good for any engineers around the area trying to combat the meltdown I'd presume.

Garseys

Sky News reporting an explosion and White smoke from the Fukushima plant.

Snaggerman

Breaking news on sky, explosion at nuclear plant

http://news.sky.com/skynews/

Mister men

Oh sweet jesus. Just seen on Japanese TV explosion at nuclear plant. White smoke pouring into the air. Oh this is not good at all.:(
Edit: possible meltdown underway according to reuters.

Thrill

1. 0810: Japanese media reports say that radioactivity has risen 20-fold outside the Fukushima-Daiichi plant.
   
   

roryc1

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/
Good news link for anyone who is sick of skynews

Thrill

NHK- Walls and roof destroyed by explosion at nuclear plant.

Peyton Manning

NHK reporting that the walls and roof of one of the buildings have been destroyed?

Garseys

NHK: Walls and roof of Fukushima 1 destroyed.

Oh dear lord:(

Thrill

0828: Japan's NHK TV showing before and after pictures of the Fukushima-Daiichi plant. It appears to show that the outer structure of one of four buildings at the plant is no longer there

clln

Who can we trust on the various reports coming in?
BBC are still only saying reports coming in of explosion.
can we trust the Japanese Govt?
America was right in there to help try cool the reactors,so they must be on permanent standby to tackle this anywhere on the Globe.

Chernobyl led to animals having to be put down as far away as Scotland.

We will have to wait for an independent agency to tell us if radiation levels are as safe as the Japanese Govt claim.
they are facing such a difficult time they may want to minimise panic.

Leiva

If this plants goes into meltdown it could be one of the most worst disasters ever seen .

Lads cross everything .

Thrill

I've just seen the before and after pictures of the plant and it looks like there is major damage at one of the plants.

Video footage appears to show that just the shell of the building remains.



.

irish1967

Anybody with freesat you can tune in NHK News. It's the channel Sky are getting their pictures.

gbee

Now giving lists of items not to be eaten, including vegetables. Due to radiation.

uprising2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMAIC6ZGBZY

Japan earthquake: nuclear disaster feared after power plant 'explosion'
Japan is battling to avoid a nuclear disaster after an explosion at a power plant in the aftermath of the country’s biggest earthquake and a devastating tsunami.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/8377506/Japan-earthquake-nuclear-disaster-feared-after-power-plant-explosion.html

Shaking, smoke at problem Japan nuclear plant
Fukushima Prefecture official Masato Abe says the cause is still under investigation, and it was unclear whether there was an explosion.
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2011/3/12/apworld/20110312162521&sec=apworld

Latest news of Japan: Explosion heard at Fukushima nuke plant

TOKYO: An explosion was heard and smoke was seen at Tokyo Electric Power Co's Fukushima No.1 nuclear power plant, Jiji news agency quoted the police as saying on Saturday.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics/nation/latest-news-of-japan-explosion-heard-at-fukushima-nuke-plant/articleshow/7685894.cms

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bz1RmANx9WA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzvZeAKyvVM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8nNjVEHqXY

Report: Explosion near Japanese nuclear plant
(CNN) -- An explosion has been reported near a nuclear plant in northeastern Japan's Fukushima prefecture, Japanese public broadcaster NHK said Saturday, citing the country's nuclear and industrial safety agency.
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/12/japan.nuclear/

EDIT:

Agency: Uranium fuel may be melting at reactor
The government's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency says 2 radioactive substances, cesium and radioactive iodine, have been detected near the Number One reactor at the Fukushima Number One nuclear power station.

The agency says this indicates that some of the metal containers of uranium fuel may have started melting.
The substances are produced by fuel fission.

University of Tokyo Professor Naoto Sekimura says only a small part of the fuel may have melted and leaked outside.

He called on residents near the power station to stay calm, saying that most of the fuel remains inside the reactor, which has stopped operation and is being cooled.
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/12_45.html

leahyl

Oh my god this sounds awful from the reports we are getting but will it really be as serious as channels like sky are making it out to be?? Like has it the potential to be another Chernobyl? Surely not?

gbee

clln

mixednuts wrote: »

If this plants goes into meltdown it could be one of the most worst disasters ever seen .

I concur, and i am sick of 'experts' being rolled out telling us how safe these reactors are.
it is propaganda.

ilovesleep

NHK - has a japanese man (a very cute one) warning of more tsunamis around some of their coasts. Waves of 3 metres is expected. Oh no!

Trampas

Sky News has just shown the explosion.