Japanese earthquake / tsunami discussion

maquiladora

No. 3 reactor can no longer be fed water. - AFP

ilovesleep

shadowninty wrote: »

this is a big setback for nuclear power
look at the "clean gas" "revolution" in the US

I don't understand. Will russia benefit from this disaster?

shadowninty

ilovesleep wrote: »

I don't understand. Will russia benefit from this disaster?

of course.. look at TMI and Chernobyl
especially with regards to Gas as I said

maquiladora

Another 6.2 aftershock reported near Fukushima.

andrew

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

A number of news agencies are citing that even though they have begun the process of pumping sewater an boric acid into the core they have been unable to entirely cover the rods with the solution for an unexplained reason. Workers are attempting to get all the rods submerged as quick as possible to prevent any rods which are exposed to the air from catching fire.

Maybe the containment vessel is cracked and there's water leaking from it too...:eek:

shadowninty

andrew wrote: »

Maybe the containment vessel is cracked and there's water leaking from it too...:eek:

that's a good point
what's it constructed with?

LighterGuy

maquiladora wrote: »

Another 6.2 aftershock reported near Fukushima.

:eek:
in the last few hours?

shadowninty

LighterGuy wrote: »

:eek:
in the last few hours?

bear in mind its NOTHING compared to 8.8

mojopolo

http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/

andrew

shadowninty wrote: »

that's a good point
what's it constructed with?

Several inches of extremely strong steel, so it's probably unlikely, though given it was subject at least in part to that huge hydrogen explosion as well as the earthquake, maybe it's possible.

maquiladora

LighterGuy wrote: »

:eek:
in the last few hours?

Within the last half hour or so.

jumpguy

I find it very annoying how murky the situation is about the nuclear state in Japan - given that could easily have international consequences. Perhaps they are trying to keep the full extent of it hushed in order to prevent panic, but instead it's proving rather frustrating. I know if this had happened in Ireland I would be very annoyed at the lack of information.

Even if it's a case they simply don't really know what's happening, that should be said, instead of leaving a bunch of unanswered questions.

Seawater being pumped into the number 1 reactor...I've a funny feeling that after this we're gonna see some engineers being hailed as heroes for last-minute arse-saving. I just want to know how they pumped in seawater if the pump had failed...

andrew

jumpguy wrote: »

Seawater being pumped into the number 1 reactor...I've a funny feeling that after this we're gonna see some engineers being hailed as heroes for last-minute arse-saving. I just want to know how they pumped in seawater if the pump had failed...

If they are hailed as heros, they'd be very deserving. Heck, they deserve credit for the fact that it didn't just crumble in response to an earthquake that was outside it's design limits.

Also, I presume they're pumping in sea water using a different pump to the one which had failed.

shadowninty

andrew wrote: »

Several inches of extremely strong steel, so it's probably unlikely, though given it was subject at least in part to that huge hydrogen explosion as well as the earthquake, maybe it's possible.

I meant around the reactor itself
I believe the hydrogen tanks were above the steel dome

NeedaNewName

Seawater means reactor no longer work, ever again = huge cost in making it redundant.

Thats why they avoided doing it

andrew

shadowninty wrote: »

I meant around the reactor itself
I believe the hydrogen tanks were above the steel dome

The reactor is within the dome and for all intents and purposes the dome is the reactor. If the dome was cracked, then the water would leak out leaving the reactor exposed. Maybe force of the explosion cracked the dome...it did look pretty massive.

maquiladora

No. 3 reactor is MOX fueled btw.

robinph

shadowninty wrote: »

bear in mind its NOTHING compared to 8.8

There was a guy on earlier saying that they would usually get an after shock about 1 less than the original quake and was expecting something between an 8.2 - 7.5 ish which is certainly more than big enough.

The highest they have had was a 7.1 within 45 minutes of the first one and everything since that has only been low 6's so they are still expecting another biggy.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/shakemap/list.php?y=2011&n=global

Brenireland

maquiladora wrote: »

No. 3 reactor is MOX fueled btw.

sorry,what does MOX stand for?

maquiladora

Breaking - Cooling is now failing at another reactor, No. 6.

jumpguy

shadowninty wrote: »

I meant around the reactor itself
I believe the hydrogen tanks were above the steel dome

The reactor itself is covered by the containment building, which is really just about the last line of defence, that is made out of thick layers of steel and/or concrete. This is meant to be intact after the blast this morning, which would suggest that the reactor inside the containment building is also intact.

The Japanese nuclear industry will have a lot to answer for this.

Brenireland

robinph wrote: »

There was a guy on earlier saying that they would usually get an after shock about 1 less than the original quake and was expecting something between an 8.2 - 7.5 ish which is certainly more than big enough.

The highest they have had was a 7.1 within 45 minutes of the first one and everything since that has only been low 6's so they are still expecting another biggy.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/shakemap/list.php?y=2011&n=global

no way,This could really do a-lot more damage to the nuclear plants/and if it were that big a hit,it could cause another Tsunami!

ilovesleep

NeedaNewName wrote: »

Seawater means reactor no longer work, ever again = huge cost in making it redundant.

Thats why they avoided doing it

But surely it would be good if it means that the situation has tamed

maquiladora

Brenireland wrote: »

sorry,what does MOX stand for?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOX_fuel

shadowninty

andrew wrote: »

The reactor is within the dome and for all intents and purposes the dome is the reactor. If the dome was cracked, then the water would leak out leaving the reactor exposed. Maybe force of the explosion cracked the dome...it did look pretty massive.

ah I know what you are saying - but the _actual_ reactor has its own containment, which is what I was asking about

andrew

jumpguy wrote: »

The reactor itself is covered by the containment building, which is really just about the last line of defence, that is made out of thick layers of steel and/or concrete. This is meant to be intact after the blast this morning, which would suggest that the reactor inside the containment building is also intact.

The Japanese nuclear industry will have a lot to answer for this.

As far as I know There are two levels of containment around the reactor. First is is the metal pressure vessel which directly surrounds the reactor, second is the containment building; that is, the building which was blown up by todays explosion. So now the only containment left is the reactor pressure vessel into which they are pumping water. Wiki however mentions dywells and wet wells, in which the reactor is located. So I think it might be reactor casing/drywell/containment building

shadowninty

ilovesleep wrote: »

But surely it would be good if it means that the situation has tamed

yes - but the water gets contaminated and the plant ruined

gman2k

Latest from Tepco
http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/11031301-e.html

All 6 units of Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station have been shut down.

Unit 1(Shut down)
- Reactor has been shut down. However, the unit is under inspection due to
the explosive sound and white smoke that was confirmed after the big
quake occurred at 3:36PM.
- We have been injecting sea water and boric acid which absorbs neutron
into the reactor core.

Unit 2(Shut down)
- Reactor and Reactor Core Isolation Cooling System have been shut down.
Current reactor water level is lower than normal level, but the water
level is steady. After fully securing safety, we are preparing to
implement a measure to reduce the pressure of the reactor containment
vessels under the instruction of the national government.

Unit 3(Shut down)
- Reactor has been shut down and we continue injecting water by High
Pressure Core Injection System. After fully securing safety, we are
preparing to implement a measure to reduce the pressure of the reactor
containment vessels under the instruction of the national government.
- Currently, we do not believe there is any reactor coolant leakage
inside the reactor containment vessel.

Unit 4 (shut down due to regular inspection)
- Reactor has been shut down and sufficient level of reactor coolant to
ensure safety is maintained.
- Currently, we do not believe there is any reactor coolant leakage inside
the reactor containment vessel.

Unit 5 (outage due to regular inspection)
- Reactor has been shut down and sufficient level of reactor coolant to
ensure safety is maintained.
- Currently, we do not believe there is any reactor coolant leakage inside
the reactor containment vessel.

Unit 6 (outage due to regular inspection)
- Reactor has been shut down and sufficient level of reactor coolant to
ensure safety is maintained.
- Currently, we do not believe there is any reactor coolant leakage
inside the reactor containment vessel.

Casualty
- 2 workers of cooperative firm were injured at the occurrence of the
earthquake, and were transported to the hospital.
- 1 TEPCO employee who was not able to stand by his own with his hand
holding left chest was transported to the hospital by an ambulance.
- 1 subcontract worker at important earthquake-proof building was
unconscious and transported to the hospital by an ambulance.
- The radiation exposure of 1 TEPCO employee, who was working inside the
reactor building, exceeded 100mSv and was transported to the hospital.
- 4 workers were injured and transported to the hospital after explosive
sound and white smoke were confirmed around the Unit 1.
- Presence of 2 TEPCO employees at the site are not confirmed

Others
- We measured radioactive materials inside of the nuclear power station
area (outdoor) by monitoring car and confirmed that radioactive
materials level is higher than ordinary level. Also, the level at
monitoring post is higher than ordinary level. We will continue to
monitor in detail the possibility of radioactive material being
discharged from exhaust stack or discharge canal. The national
government has instructed evacuation for those local residents within
20km radius of the periphery because it's possible that radioactive
materials are discharged.

- We will continue to take all measures to restore the security of
the site and to monitor the environment of the site periphery.

davyjose

ilovesleep wrote: »

Another one - thats reactor no.3 and 6
Why don't they throw seawater over the whole lot?

$$$ is why. This is also a major source of power for one oft he world's most populated regions. The risk has to be calculated -- dumping seawater and boric acid over all the reactors may not be necessary, but would cost hundreds of billions.

LighterGuy

So whats the worst case scenario right now?

serveral reactors fail and explode thus making vast areas of Fukushima (etc) like chernobyl?