Japanese earthquake / tsunami discussion

jumpguy

andrew wrote: »

As far as I know There are two levels of containment around the reactor. First is is the metal pressure vessel which directly surrounds the reactor, second is the containment building; that is, the building which was blown up by todays explosion. So now the only containment left is the reactor pressure vessel into which they are pumping water. Wiki however mentions dywells and wet wells, in which the reactor is located. So I think it might be reactor casing/drywell/containment building

Oh, I'm sorry, you're perfectly right yeah, my post was misleading, by the "reactor" I meant the entire thing including the shielding around it.

I also read this wrong:

2023: Reuters: The IAEA says the operator of the plant has confirmed that the primary containment vessel is intact following this morning's blast.

Primary being the key word.

gman2k

From Kyodo news;

NEWS ADVISORY: 6th reactor at Fukushima nuke plant loses cooling functions (07:31)

andrew

jumpguy wrote: »

Oh, I'm sorry, you're perfectly right yeah, my post was misleading, by the "reactor" I meant the entire thing including the shielding around it.

I also read this wrong:
Primary being the key word.

Ah yeah, calling it primary makes more sense/makes things clearer. If it's definitely intact then what I said about it being cracked would be wrong I suppose.

Ficheall

Any idea which direction the wind is blowing in the area?

Brenireland

andrew wrote: »

Ah yeah, calling it primary makes more sense/makes things clearer. If it's definitely intact then what I said about it being cracked would be wrong I suppose.

Andrew I see your the mod for economics & I'm wondering will these happenings in Japan (which don't seem to be improving) have big implications on the world economy or even on the Irish economy?

ilovesleep

davyjose wrote: »

$$$ is why. This is also a major source of power for one oft he world's most populated regions. The risk has to be calculated -- dumping seawater and boric acid over all the reactors may not be necessary, but would cost hundreds of billions.

Yes, just after posting I realised just how stupid my post was, so i went to delete it but you got in before me to quote me. I was hoping nobody would see it

Killer Pigeon

The creator of the "Pokémon" franchise, Satoshi Tajiri, is rumoured to have died in the earthquake （；_・）

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/121988/20110312/pokemon-creator-santhoshi-tijari-death-hoax-rumored-death-japan-earthquake-tsunami-facebook-twitter.htm

Sierra Oscar

Brenireland wrote: »

Andrew I see your the mod for economics & I'm wondering will these happenings in Japan (which don't seem to be improving) have big implications on the world economy or even on the Irish economy?

It could drive already rising oil & gas prices up even further as Japan needs to substitute its nuclear energy needs.

andrew

Brenireland wrote: »

Andrew I see your the mod for economics & I'm wondering will these happenings in Japan (which don't seem to be improving) have big implications on the world economy or even on the Irish economy?

I'd hesitate to make a judgement about that, given I think I know enough about economics to know that there's a lot about economics that I don't know, if you know what I mean. But as someone who studies economics, I see no immediately clear mechanism by which this would have a significant effect on the world economy or the Irish economy.

Given Japan has many many other undamaged nuclear power plants, and the fact that (apparently) this plant was due to be shut soon anyway, there's no reason to expect that this'd lead to more demand for Oil/Gas from China and hence increased oil/glas prices.

Brenireland

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

It could drive already rising oil & gas prices up even further as Japan needs to substitute its nuclear energy needs.

That would be killer,along with what's happening in Libya

Thrill

1. 2252: Reuters: Operators are preparing to release radioactive steam from the number three reactor at Fukushima No. 1 plant, after the cooling system failed there
   
   

Jayob10

Thrill wrote: »

1. 2252: Reuters: Operators are preparing to release radioactive steam from the number three reactor at Fukushima No. 1 plant, after the cooling system failed there
   
   

what does that actually mean? they are going to release radioactive steam into the air to relieve pressure inside??

davyjose

ilovesleep wrote: »

Yes, just after posting I realised just how stupid my post was, so i went to delete it but you got in before me to quote me. I was hoping nobody would see it

It wasn't stupid. I can see why people would question that.

Vodkat

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

The creator of the "Pokémon" franchise, Satoshi Tajiri, is rumoured to have died in the earthquake （；_・）

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/121988/20110312/pokemon-creator-santhoshi-tijari-death-hoax-rumored-death-japan-earthquake-tsunami-facebook-twitter.htm

Apparently its a lie, Nintendo have confirmed hes alive

http://thegamershub.net/2011/03/pokemon-creatorsatoshi-tajiri-is-alive/

davyjose

Jayob10 wrote: »

what does that actually mean? they are going to release radioactive steam into the air to relieve pressure inside??

Yes. theoretically, though, this should only contain short-lived radioactive isotopes.

Brenireland

andrew wrote: »

I'd hesitate to make a judgement about that, given I think I know enough about economics to know that there's a lot about economics that I don't know, if you know what I mean. But as someone who studies economics, I see no immediately clear mechanism by which this would have a significant effect on the world economy or the Irish economy.

Okay thanks that would be good if it didn't effect our economy,as we've been hit hard already.

It's just the fact that I heard some Japanese Car Factories employ quiet a few people here in Ireland/Europe & America although I'm not sure about statistics.

And as has been already pointed out prices of fuel may also hit the roof.

Ficheall

CNN is reporting that a meltdown may be underway...

ilovesleep

Brenireland wrote: »

Andrew I see your the mod for economics & I'm wondering will these happenings in Japan (which don't seem to be improving) have big implications on the world economy or even on the Irish economy?

It was mentioned on the news last night that it will have an impact.

andrew

Jayob10 wrote: »

what does that actually mean? they are going to release radioactive steam into the air to relieve pressure inside??

The reactor's inside a steel tube filled with water. Since the water is boiling, the pressure inside is increasing. In releasing some steam, they'll make it easier to pump water inside. The steam is barely radioactive. Less radioactive than an X-Ray.

Brenireland wrote: »

Okay thanks that would be good if it didn't effect our economy,as we've been hit hard already.

It's just the fact that I heard some Japanese Car Factories employ quiet a few people here in Ireland/Europe & America although I'm not sure about statistics.

And as has been already pointed out prices of fuel may also hit the roof.

Post edited to deal with fuel/oil point

Jayob10

Ficheall wrote: »

CNN is reporting that a meltdown may be underway...

if this is not fully confirmed then its pretty irresponsible reporting

andrew

ilovesleep wrote: »

It was mentioned on the news last night that it will have an impact.

By what mechanism did they say it'd impact?

Brenireland

ilovesleep wrote: »

It was mentioned on the news last night that it will have an impact.

Yes I seen that,but it didn't really go into much detail,but a-lot of economies I'd imagine will be hit hard,especially the U.S.

jumpguy

Jayob10 wrote: »

what does that actually mean? they are going to release radioactive steam into the air to relieve pressure inside??

Yeah, pretty much. The reactor is like a kettle, with the fuel rods being the elements of a kettle kettle. Water is kept flowing over the elements (fuel rods) constantly to cool them and stop them melting (the water heats and gets turned to steam where it turns turbines, providing electricity, in normal circumstances). If the water stops flowing, it just sits over the elements and boils. This is when the reactor turns into a pressure cooker, with steam building up within and raising the pressure. Also, as steam increases, liquid water obviously decreases, so the elements (fuel rods) won't be covered with the cooling water, and will melt. This releases lots of radiation.

Feels great to have LC phyics actually be useful for once...:o

Ficheall wrote: »

Any idea which direction the wind is blowing in the area?

Out towards the Pacific Ocean last time I heard.

Lord Trollington

I really do not understand nuclear power or how it works. I would have thought that it exploding earlier would have been far worse than anything else...

Turtwig

Jayob10 wrote: »

if this is not fully confirmed then its pretty irresponsible reporting

Even if there is a meltdown you're still looking at Three Mile Island type disaster. The major difference being that the hydrogen did not ignite and radiation level released at TMI was very low .8 mSv. Tepco have already confirmed levels over 100 mSv. Still not lethal, but well above back levels.

@Whycliff to use the analogy of a damn, if a fuel generator explodes then there would be some concern about the damn's integrity however such an explosion is obviously not as bad as the main wall of the damn exploding. A similar thing has happened here the main core vessel and its containment remains intact (the explosion was outside it) and fingers crossed it was not structurally compromised. If the explosion occurred within the core itself then you would really be in the sh1t. However such a situation is extremely unlikely because unlike Chernobyl the control rods were fully inserted (reactor shut down) and the design wasn't idiotic. If you have the stomach I suggest you read about all the design at Chernobyl it's horrible stuff to read how just how crappy that place was.

andrew

whycliff wrote: »

I really do not understand nuclear power or how it works. I would have thought that it exploding earlier would have been far worse than anything else...

That was just (well, 'just') the outer building exploding. Apparently, the reactor inside wasn't affected. In these buildings, the reactor is sunk into the floor and surrounded by concrete, so the explosion today was a bit like having your house explode due to a gas leak but leaving your boiler in the basement intact.

sam007

i hope my dog wont be pulled under and drowned by the almighty pressure o.o

ilovesleep

andrew wrote: »

By what mechanism did they say it'd impact?

Its to do with japans reconstruction. Its going to cost money. They have invested in a lot of countries. They will need their money back. Something on those lines.

Jimmy Garlic

Meltdown confirmed..

TOKYO (Nikkei)--The Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency (NISA) said Saturday afternoon the explosion at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant could only have been caused by a meltdown of the reactor core.

http://e.nikkei.com/e/fr/tnks/Nni20110312D12JFF03.htm

Vodkat

Is anyone watching the live conference on CNN? Im finding it really hard to understand the translator. Can some one fill me in?