Japanese earthquake / tsunami discussion

Star Bingo

darkman what else have we got. best source i can find for info and running commentary how many news channels and no updates; even a minor steady controlled meltdown is major but beside a genuinely major meltdown this seems like peanuts.. thus far.

3 workers at the plant suffering from full on radiation sickness

Killer Pigeon

LighterGuy wrote: »

thanks for your rudeness. rather than not getting back my question at all you do so to be smart.

thanks.



urgh.

Seaneh and I are smarter than you LighterGuy, get over it. Now run along and google "Associated Free Press".

Helix

darkman2 wrote: »

Yes but that is not the point. Has the Japanesse Gov been painting a false picture since the emergency. I think they have though I have no evidence.

how have they been painting a false picture? theyve been saying all along that we migth be looking at a meltdown? now theyve confirmed its likely that its happening

maybe youve just not been keeping up to speed with it, but theyve not been hiding anything - nothing has come out of the blue here

amacachi

Overheal wrote: »

I dont see how you typo between Fusion and Meltdown, but ok I guess..

Yeah, tis odd. I assume there's no fusion (it would be retarded) and fission would be ok if they had start venting yesterday or wouldn't have happened in the first place.

Overheal

darkman2 wrote: »

Fair enough, I do think a deadly situation has been underway for some hours however. That is just my opinion. I bow to superior knowledge of course.

I think a nuclear disaster is, in fact, underway and has been for many hours like I say.

Oh it's no doubt a Disaster but there is no need to overstate things.

Some people know people living in or visiting Japan and don't need to read or hear over-hyped disaster-porn. Just need to take the facts as they come and chew them over diligently.

I am gonna try and find out more about this fusion business

amacachi

Deleted User wrote: »

3 workers at the plant suffering from full on radiation sickness

Poor fcukers.

Overheal wrote: »

Oh it's no doubt a Disaster but there is no need to overstate things.

Some people know people living in or visiting Japan and don't need to read or hear over-hyped disaster-porn. Just need to take the facts as they come and chew them over diligently.

I'm sure you have more facts than me right now (very drunk) so what's the craic with overall casualties?

Thrill

Deleted User wrote: »

I got that completely wrong I think.. Fission is used in Power Plants and Atom bombs. Fusion is used in the big nuclear bombs and not in Power Plants and can only be started by a fission reaction.


Basically, I think that AFP info has to be wrong?

It was probably supposed to read "Possible meltdown in two reactors" not "possible fusion in two reactors"

skelliser

the fusion thing is BS.
there is no fusion going on.
its defo a typo.

darkman2

Overheal wrote: »

Some people know people living in or visiting Japan and don't need to read or hear over-hyped disaster-porn.

You do realise you are dealing with an unpopular nuclear friendly Government in Japan? They have underplayed this from the start.

LighterGuy

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Seaneh and I are smarter than you LighterGuy, get over it. Now run along and google "Associated Free Press".

Correction, you certainely mean more rude than me. Theres a big difference I asked a question out of unknowingness. Not ignorance.

tip:
next time you ask a question on boards.ie and are met with the response "google it!" ... or "wikipedia!?" ... please dont think they are condescending morans. 'Cause they probably arent like you or Seaneh are not ... couldnt be... certainly not

MrStuffins

darkman2 wrote: »

You do realise you are dealing with an unpopular nuclear friendly Government in Japan? They have underplayed this from the start.

Darkman, why do you contunue to persue this conspiracy line? Nobody gives a f*ck! There are thousands dead, there are thousands missing, there are possible massive disasters still in the offing............. and you're going on about some made up conspiracy bullsh*t!!

Bring it to the CT forum!

amacachi

darkman2 wrote: »

You do realise you are dealing with an unpopular nuclear friendly Government in Japan? They have underplayed this from the start.

They can underplay it all they want, local area is evactuated, nuclear explosion is impossible (assuming the japanese aren't retarded) so it wont be too bad.

Killer Pigeon

LighterGuy wrote: »

Correction, you certainely mean more rude than me. Theres a big difference I asked a question out of unknowingness. Not ignorance.

tip:
next time you ask a question on boards.ie and are met with the response "google it!" ... or "wikipedia!?" ... please dont think they are condescending morans. 'Cause they probably arent like you or Seaneh are not ... couldnt be... certainly not

You're making no sense LighterHeadedGuy, now go to bed.

darkman2

amacachi wrote: »

They can underplay it all they want, local area is evactuated, nuclear explosion is impossible (assuming the japanese aren't retarded) so it wont be too bad.

I never said anything about an explosion. It's radiation that is the main concern.


Im not a conspiracy theorist btw - I don't do conspiracy.

amacachi

darkman2 wrote: »

I never said anything about an explosion. It's radiation that is the main concern.


Im not a conspiracy theorist btw - I don't do conspiracy.

Yeah, ok.


If they're smart (I said this earlier/maybe last night too) they should get rid of the radioactivity etc. now while the wind is blowing to nowhere

Overheal, why won't it cool down by itself? Is it like a reaction is occurring and it's getting hotter and hotter?

Seaneh

Deleted User wrote: »

Overheal, why won't it cool down by itself? Is it like a reaction is occurring and it's getting hotter and hotter?

No, its just too hot and would take too long (like, decades) and by the time it cooled enough, it would have melted through everything around it...

amacachi

Deleted User wrote: »

Overheal, why won't it cool down by itself? Is it like a reaction is occurring and it's getting hotter and hotter?

Pretty much, it can cool itself in normal conditions, with water it'll cool quicker and contaminate the water but the water can be reused. With Air they need to cut their losses early/now and let the radioactivity out before it runs away.

Killer Pigeon

Why won't they hose the reactor(s) with liquid nitrogen to cool it down?

amacachi

Seaneh wrote: »

No, its just too hot and would take too long (like, decades) and by the time it cooled enough, it would have melted through everything around it...

Water would cool it in a day or two.

Revolution9

Seaneh wrote: »

No, its just too hot and would take too long (like, decades) and by the time it cooled enough, it would have melted through everything around it...

"It" being radioactive vapour?

Overheal

darkman2 wrote: »

You do realise you are dealing with an unpopular nuclear friendly Government in Japan? They have underplayed this from the start.

Any and all lies, cover-ups or engineering blunders will come to light in due course. Expect the 3 hour special on CNBC in a few weeks or months, Im sure.

For now I can only deal in corroborated information being fed to us through the media, even if you wish to assume that information is being manipulated - that's your prerogative.



Fusion:

howstuffworks.com wrote:

*W*hen hydrogen atoms fuse, the nuclei must come together. However, the protons in each nucleus will tend to repel each other because they have the same charge (positive). If you've ever tried to place two magnets together and felt them push apart from each other, you've experienced this principle first-hand.
To achieve fusion*, you need to create special conditions to overcome this tendency. Here are the conditions that make fusion possible:

• High temperature - The high temperature gives the hydrogen atoms enough energy to overcome the electrical repulsion between the protons.
  • Fusion requires temperatures about 100 million Kelvin (approximately six times hotter than the sun's core).
  • At these temperatures, hydrogen is a plasma, not a gas. Plasma is a high-energy state of matter in which all the electrons are stripped from atoms and move freely about.
  • The sun achieves these temperatures by its large mass and the force of gravity compressing this mass in the core. We must use energy from microwaves, lasers and ion particles to achieve these temperatures.
• High pressure - Pressure squeezes the hydrogen atoms together. They must be within 1x10[SIZE=-1]-15[/SIZE] meters of each other to fuse.
  • The sun uses its mass and the force of gravity to squeeze hydrogen atoms together in its core.
  • We must squeeze hydrogen atoms together by using intense magnetic fields, powerful lasers or ion beams.

*W*ith current technology, we can only achieve the temperatures and pressures necessary to make deuterium-tritium fusion possible. Deuterium-deuterium fusion requires higher temperatures that may be possible in the future. Ultimately, deuterium-deuterium fusion will be better because it is easier to extract deuterium from seawater than to make tritium from lithium. Also, deuterium is not radioactive, and deuterium-deuterium reactions will yield more energy.

Concept High-Temperature Reactor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Very_high_temperature_reactor would operate at 1000 degrees celsius, or ~1270 Kelvin. Far below the millions needed. Allowing for the fact thats in normal - with coolant - operating specs I looked at the meltdown temps and you're still talking about "only" (in the context of fusion) a few thousand degrees Kelvin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_meltdown

Until I hear more and experts can explain how it's possible, Im calling quits on the Fusion reports based on the available information about nuclear physics.

Seaneh

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Why won't they hose the reactor(s) with liquid nitrogen to cool it down?

Really? You don't see why this would be a bad idea?

darkman2

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Why won't they hose the reactor(s) with liquid nitrogen to cool it down?

Jesus, then you would have an explosion! It has to cool at a relative slow speed.

Seaneh

Revolution9 wrote: »

"It" being radioactive vapour?

No, it being what is inside the reactor.

bradlente

Could they use liquid nitrogen to cool it down?

ah,never mind...

Agonist

Ugh, I've been watching CNN and they had some guy on saying there was nothing much wrong with the nuclear power plants, that it was being exaggerated. He said that the people were only evacuated because it's part of the emergency plan, not because they were in any danger.
Then he claimed to have no links with the nuclear industry, "except that I write books about it"

It's hearing things like that that really frighten me. If the pro-nuclear lobby are telling lies then we don't know who to trust. We just want facts, not spin or hyperbole.

Revolution9

Seaneh wrote: »

No, it being what is inside the reactor.

Which is?

skelliser

Deleted User wrote: »

Overheal, why won't it cool down by itself? Is it like a reaction is occurring and it's getting hotter and hotter?

imagine a kettle.

now imagine its air tight and a finite amount of water.

the waters boils away into steam and we then need to vent this steam so it doesnt blow up.
But also we need to get more water into it so the element can cool.
If the element is exposed to air/steam it will melt. if the water isnt replaced more of the element is exposed.
thus increasing its melting.

If this continues we have a meltdown.