Japanese earthquake / tsunami discussion

LighterGuy

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Why won't they hose the reactor(s) with liquid nitrogen to cool it down?

:rolleyes:
are you serious!?!?!?! do you even have half a brain?

clearly you have no intelligence when it comes to science.
why dont you google liquid nitrogen and see the unreasonable amounts it would "take"

or am i too intelligent for you? .... you've probably had a few pints. now now, goto bed. you need your sleep.

Helix

Agonist wrote: »

they had some guy on saying there was nothing much wrong with the nuclear power plants

but theres not

nuclear power is something that should be used a lot more, but the absolute media frenzy this is going to create will mean it most likely wont be, and instead we'll go back to draining the last of the fossil fuels from the planet

Overheal

Deleted User wrote: »

Overheal, why won't it cool down by itself? Is it like a reaction is occurring and it's getting hotter and hotter?

Seaneh wrote: »

No, its just too hot and would take too long (like, decades) and by the time it cooled enough, it would have melted through everything around it...

All the reactors correctly SCRAM'd when the quake first hit, this shut down fission reactions. However the cores are still hot, like your oven hob not exactly being cool to the touch the moment you're done with a sexy Irish fry-up. It takes several days normally for a reactor to cool down completely. It's commonly done whenever a reactor needs to be re-fueled.

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Why won't they hose the reactor(s) with liquid nitrogen to cool it down?

Not sure. Availability? For that I would want to actually pose the question to a physicist because I reckon theres a good reason for it. Possibly playing into what I was saying about critical mass. Supercooling the fuel would increase its density. Not that they need to supercool it, just use some. Like I said though there is probably a reason behind it. They threw around LN as a possibility during the Chernobyl incident and scrapped it, I didnt read over as to why. see next post

Agonist

LighterGuy wrote: »

:rolleyes:
are you serious!?!?!?! do you even have half a brain?

clearly you have no intelligence when it comes to science.
why dont you google liquid nitrogen.

or am i too intelligent for you? .... you've probably had a few pints. now now, goto bed. you need your sleep.

How about you tell us why instead of inflicting your wounded pride on us all.

Overheal

darkman2 wrote: »

Jesus, then you would have an explosion! It has to cool at a relative slow speed.

Mmmm I didnt even think about that. Liquid nitrogen would just explode.

for your viewing pleasure: Frozen Turkey meet deep fat fryer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsiAfyctZCk

Same principles apply I assume.

This fell off onto last page but I looked it up, the fusion claim is likely myth until experts (expert experts, with degrees in nuclear physics, not in googling) can demonstrate otherwise.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=71139654&postcount=1796

Killer Pigeon

darkman2 wrote: »

Jesus, then you would have an explosion! It has to cool at a relative slow speed.

Nuclear expert, eh?

davyjose

Overheal wrote: »

AThey threw around LN as a possibility during the Chernobyl incident and scrapped it, I didnt read over as to why.

The core had already cooled before they could get it shipped in, basically.

A huge supply would be needed, by which time, the damage would be done. Who knows, maybe they are planning to use LN, and are going with water in the meantime?

Edit: The purpose of the LN at Chernobyl wasn't to pour it on top, but to freeze the ground beneath, to cool the core before it "china syndromed" through the bottom of the reactor. Mines were even built for this purpose.

Killer Pigeon

LighterGuy wrote: »

:rolleyes:
are you serious!?!?!?! do you even have half a brain?

clearly you have no intelligence when it comes to science.
why dont you google liquid nitrogen and see the unreasonable amounts it would "take"

or am i too intelligent for you? .... you've probably had a few pints. now now, goto bed. you need your sleep.

Well, I am two years into a Physics Degree, but oh hell ...

Seaneh

Revolution9 wrote: »

Which is?

The core. And inside the core is the fuel assemblies. Which are what is melting through everything.

The vapour you mentioned is from water which was being sued to try Cool the assemblies down, that failed. There is a meltdown. If the core melts through the reactor floor and into the containment chamber, which is potentially damaged (from yesterday's explosion), then the problems are a lot bigger.

Mister men

What's the worst case scenario here? Tokyo evacuated, Japan evacuated. Seems to me this is getting worse by the hour.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

They threw around LN as a possibility during the Chernobyl incident and scrapped it, I didnt read over as to why.[/s] see next post

On Wikipedia, it says that it was used to cool the reactors but the idea of using it to freeze the ground afterwards was scrapped..


The fire inside Reactor No. 4 continued to burn until 10 May 1986; it is possible that well over half of the graphite burned out.[6]:73 The fire was extinguished by a combined effort of helicopters dropping over 5,000 metric tons of materials like sand, lead, clay, and boron onto the burning reactor and injection of liquid nitrogen.

Using oil drilling equipment, injection of liquid nitrogen began on 4 May. It was estimated that 25 metric tons of liquid nitrogen per day would be required to keep the soil frozen at −100 °C.[6]:59 This idea was soon scrapped and the bottom room where the cooling system would have been installed was filled with concrete.

Agonist

Helix wrote: »

but theres not

nuclear power is something that should be used a lot more, but the absolute media frenzy this is going to create will mean it most likely wont be, and instead we'll go back to draining the last of the fossil fuels from the planet

Now you sound like you are minimising it

Thanks to Overheal and others we have a pretty good idea of what's going on. It's not good that the rods are being exposed and they are having trouble cooling it and that the explosion damaged it.

I think they are the facts. I'm neither pro nor anti nuclear. The anti lobby will say that Japan is about to be vapourised and the pro lobby will say that nothing has gone wrong (as you did). There is middle ground somewhere.

The Shtig

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Well, I am two years into a Physics Degree, but oh hell ...

This isn't a thread to prove who is the most intelligent...

Overheal

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Well, I am two years into a Physics Degree, but oh hell ...

and you were quoted as earlier saying there was a 5% chance of a nuclear explosion?

If you were just being facetious (and I'd like to assume you were) it would be helpful if you wouldn't be. The other poster you responded to at the time appear genuinely concerned about the plutonium and you shouldnt have just made jokes about it.

Killer Pigeon

The Shtig wrote: »

This isn't a thread to prove who is the most intelligent...

It doesn't mean one's more intelligent. I clearly haven't proved that in this thread.

LighterGuy

Agonist wrote: »

How about you tell us why instead of inflicting your wounded pride on us all.

this is what I love about boards, perhaps even this country. For the last dozen pages its been about what they should do in japan to avoid the nuclear plants exploding / leaking etc etc.

wait... hold on ... jesus. I never knew there was so many nuclear experts in this country? ... and those who post on boards.ie

So instead of posting what YOU think they should do why dont you get a degree, work in a nuclear plant for a few years and a have a coke and shut up. because the simple fact is me, you or the average person knows nothing about nuclear fusion. FACT.

Its getting sickening at this point. All big man "i know what im saying" talk .... we're talking nuclear stuff here. Not putting in a new kitchen sink. I know nothing on this subject. and wanna know something too? average person knows nothing here too. All just google stuff. So shut the hell up and let the poor japanese technicians do their job.

davyjose

Mister men wrote: »

What's the worst case scenario here? Tokyo evacuated, Japan evacuated.

No chance of either of these situations.

Killer Pigeon

Overheal wrote: »

and you were quoted as earlier saying there was a 5% chance of a nuclear explosion?

If you were just being facetious (and I'd like to assume you were) it would be helpful if you wouldn't be. The other poster you responded to at the time appear genuinely concerned about the plutonium and you shouldnt have just made jokes about it.

I'm sure everyone's concerned. But it's late at night and there are hardly any people following this thread this late.

skelliser

LighterGuy wrote: »

So instead of posting what YOU think they should do why dont you get a degree, work in a nuclear plant for a few years and a have a coke and shut up. because the simple fact is me, you or the average person knows nothing about nuclear fusion. FACT.

you do of course mean fission:rolleyes:

Overheal

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

I'm sure everyone's concerned. But it's late at night and there are hardly any people following this thread this late.

Not an excuse to use it for giggles. See Mod Warning in Post #1.

Mod warning
Any jokes or tasteless posts will result in a ban.

Theres plenty of other threads I've been getting my comic relief from while I center on this one.

tiger55

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp-dJ1k_DbI

Killer Pigeon

LighterGuy wrote: »

this is what I love about boards, perhaps even this country. For the last dozen pages its been about what they should do in japan to avoid the nuclear plants exploding / leaking etc etc.

wait... hold on ... jesus. I never knew there was so many nuclear experts in this country? ... and those who post on boards.ie

So instead of posting what YOU think they should do why dont you get a degree, work in a nuclear plant for a few years and a have a coke and shut up. because the simple fact is me, you or the average person knows nothing about nuclear fusion. FACT.

Its getting sickening at this point. All big man "i know what im saying" talk .... we're talking nuclear stuff here. Not putting in a new kitchen sink. I know nothing on this subject. and wanna know something too? average person knows nothing here too. All just google stuff. So shut the hell up and let the poor japanese technicians do their job.

You clearly need some coolant man, get a pillow and go to sleep.

Agonist

LighterGuy wrote: »

this is what I love about boards, perhaps even this country. For the last dozen pages its been about what they should do in japan to avoid the nuclear plants exploding / leaking etc etc.

wait... hold on ... jesus. I never knew there was so many nuclear experts in this country? ... and those who post on boards.ie

So instead of posting what YOU think they should do why dont you get a degree, work in a nuclear plant for a few years and a have a coke and shut up. because the simple fact is me, you or the average person knows nothing about nuclear fusion. FACT.

Its getting sickening at this point. All big man "i know what im saying" talk .... we're talking nuclear stuff here. Not putting in a new kitchen sink. I know nothing on this subject. and wanna know something too? average person knows nothing here too. All just google stuff. So shut the hell up and let the poor japanese technicians do their job.

Woah, I don't know what I did to deserve that! I thought you knew about the liquid nitrogen and were just teasing us by not telling us.
Anyway, it was a very unhelpful post and out of character with this thread.
For what it's worth, I'd like the guys here to continue posting what they know because the regular media can't or won't tell us.

Jimmy Garlic

Jesus Christ, even the company that owns the reactors doesn't fully know what is going on..

Nuclear plant operator Tokyo Electric Power Co (TEPCO) says radiation levels around the quake-damaged plant have risen above the safety limit, and the government is warning that meltdowns may have possibly occurred at two reactors.
TEPCO says the rise in radiation levels at the Japanese plant does not mean an "immediate threat" to human health, but chief cabinet secretary Yukio Edano says it is possible the radioactive cores of the two damaged Fukushima reactors have already started to melt.
"We do believe that there is a possibility that meltdown has occurred, it is inside the reactor, we can't see," he said.
"However, we are acting assuming that a meltdown has occurred and with reactor No. 3, we are also assuming the possibility of a meltdown as we carry out measures."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/03/13/3162752.htm

Killer Pigeon

Overheal wrote: »

Not an excuse to use it for giggles. See Mod Warning in Post #1.

Theres plenty of other threads I've been getting my comic relief from while I center on this one.

Honestly, do you really care so much to stay up all day and night and post countless news updates to a thread that has only a handful of viewers at this time? It's like continuously updating a twitter status that has only two followers who you never met in your life.

Yes, I know this is ironic.

darkman2

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Jesus Christ, even the company that owns the reactors doesn't fully know what is going on..



http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/03/13/3162752.htm

A meltdown has already happened IMO. This is fluff. The explosion earlier was not down to an aftershock. I think most sensible people know what has already happened. Just waiting for official confirmation.

LighterGuy

skelliser wrote: »

you do of course mean fission:rolleyes:

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

You clearly need some coolant man, get a pillow and go to sleep.

Ok guys. Clearly since you both know it all. What should they do in japan? ... straight up. Tell me. Tell us. Tell the world. Dont reply side-tracking, evading from my question. Be honest. Enlighten us.


Agonist,
Im sorry if my post was rude. I dont mean to be rude to you. I just got worked up by other users posts.

davyjose

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Honestly, do you really care so much to stay up all day and night and post countless news updates to a thread that has only a handful of viewers at this time? It's like continuously updating a twitter status that has only two followers who you never met in your life.

Yes, I know this is ironic.

It's not really -- it isn't 05.30am where he is.

Overheal

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Jesus Christ, even the company that owns the reactors doesn't fully know what is going on..



http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/03/13/3162752.htm

Thats more or less the reality of nuclear reactors from what ive read about chernobyl and three mile island. They have to rely on a legion of sensors to tell them whats going on and in cases such as this they can feed the operators misleading or false information. It's also possible some of the sensors have failed for one reason or another, remembering that the problem at the plants is Power (ironically) in at least one case a reactor had experienced a total blackout for a short while. If Im not mistaken that could have left them sensor-blind.

skelliser

3 mile island played out over 5 days.

This is only day 2!!

im going to bed!