Japanese earthquake / tsunami discussion

Overheal

Off to bed, new information,

- the licenses for the plants were due to expire in May of this year regardless of the accident. Issued 40 years ago.

- there are now 7 reactors at either of the 2 plants experiencing complications

- authorities allegedly withheld public disclosure of the first partial-meltdown until third party sources detected the Caesium, evidence of fuel rods being exposed to air.

- sea water and boric acid are being employed. Boric Acid damages the core, making it unsuitable for re-use, but has a calming effect on fissile reactions while acting as a flame retardant - hopefully preventing the cores from catching fire.

I owe someone a tenner from the other day and darman2 a coke. I don't think we've seen a Full meltdown yet though, I am willing to believe they withheld information of a partial meltdown because as this thread has shown that can easilly cause panic, as few people are reasonably able to differentiate between the two and will just panic for the worst.

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2011/03/13/tracking-the-fallout-and-falsehoods-at-fukushima/

Night-O

Star Bingo

gov't "warns of fresh threat of explosion." at this reactor 2

bed; tell me about it.

Overheal

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/03/13/AR2011031300456.html

A Basic repeat of what happened at No. 1 yesterday then. Not great news, all the same.

.8 mSv

is that meant to be milli or micro? I cant be bothered to reach for the funny-shaped 'u' myself, either.

Turtwig

Overheal wrote: »

Off to bed, new information,


http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2011/03/13/tracking-the-fallout-and-falsehoods-at-fukushima/

Night-O

?? I think you got the sleepies.

- the licenses for the plants were due to expire in May of this year regardless of the accident. Issued 40 years ago.

Possibly new never looked into it.

- there are now 7 reactors at either of the 2 plants experiencing complications

Old, Old news. Everyone was just too focused on Unit I I guess but Tepco reported this one as earlier as Friday Night/Saturday Morning GMT.

- authorities allegedly withheld public disclosure of the first partial-meltdown until third party sources detected the Caesium, evidence of fuel rods being exposed to air.

Again old news. If there's a hydrogen explosion then any explanation bar a partial meltdown is unlikely. The key question is whether the core's containment is intact if they were withholding information about that they deserve serious lawsuits.

- sea water and boric acid are being employed. Boric Acid damages the core, making it unsuitable for re-use, but has a calming effect on fissile reactions while acting as a flame retardant - hopefully preventing the cores from catching fire.

Very old news, this has been happening since unit 1 was being cooled with sea water.

I owe someone a tenner from the other day and darman2 a coke.

I don't think you do.
Get some sleep mate.:D

It was milli.:) (use alt +num0181 for micro µ ;-))

Overheal

Maybe i am getting the sleepies. But yes the plants opened in 1971. They were probably due for decommission soon.

I know some of that is old news but with the thread slowing down I wanted whoever woke up in the morning to meet a brief-ish summary of the days events.

3AM?! That happened fast. I'm clocking out

Agonist

Malty_T wrote: »

Again old news. If there's a hydrogen explosion then any explanation bar a partial meltdown is unlikely. The key question is whether the core's containment is intact if they were withholding information about that they deserve serious lawsuits.

They certainly weren't admitting to a partial meltdown at the time of the explosion.
I think we would know whether the containment was breached by the levels of radiation outside?

The victim count is still low at 800+. It looks like they are going to count the bodies one by one for the moment. At some stage they are going to have to assume that the missing are dead. Maybe not for a few weeks?


CNN have a breaking news banner that's still saying things like "8.9M earthquake in Japan", "huge tsunami threatens coastline"

laros

Just came across this link... apologies if it's already been posted....




http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/japan-quake-2011/beforeafter.htm

sunflower27

laros wrote: »

Just came across this link... apologies if it's already been posted....




http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/japan-quake-2011/beforeafter.htm

Good God, that is just devastating. Really brings it home. I have seen the same footage over and over again on the TV but those photos really bring home how much of a disaster this is and how the early estimates of loss of life seem totally unrealistic. God bless everyone suffering over there. It's so sad. When i think of peoplewith missing family and friends it breaks my heart...:( The pain they must be going through...

mravaya

I am getting this info from Japanese Forums, but there is talk of some 15 residents have been admitted to hospital already and there more expected. people are losing confidence in the authorities God help them all!!!!

sunflower27

mravaya wrote: »

I am getting this info from Japanese Forums, but there is talk of some 15 residents have been admitted to hospital already and there more expected. people are losing confidence in the authorities God help them all!!!!

This is the situation I mentioned pages back that really pisses me off. FFS this is not the time to try and play down the situation.... thousand of people's lives are at risk.

I am not surprised the people over there are losing confidence. They are being kept in the dark as the Governmet plays down the severity of the sistuation to the world's media. Ridiculous.

ilovesleep

whiteboy wrote: »

I personally do not care so much about the Japanese earthquake/tsunami, people die everyday and it's not so eventful

Japan has been very good to the world. You remember that.

They have given us:
cars - toyota, nissan, honda, mitusbishi, lexus, mazda
electronics - panasonic, nintendo, sony, sharp, seiko, toshiba
Im sure others can add to these lists.

The phone, television, laptop that you use today to learn about the unfolding events could have been made in Japan. The people that have brought you these could have been washed away, and the remainder could have radiation and harmful chemicals in the atmosphere due to nuclear problems to live with for the rest of their lives resulting in ill health.

mravaya

This is been reported on skynews, lucky for him, just imagine how many victims have been washed out to sea and will not be counted in the statistics,
God help them all!!!

Spunge

ilovesleep wrote: »

Japan has been very good to the world. You remember that.

They have given us:
cars - toyota, nissan, honda, mitusbishi, lexus, mazda
electronics - panasonic, nintendo, sony, sharp, seiko, toshiba
Im sure others can add to these lists.

POKEMON

mravaya

ilovesleep wrote: »

Japan has been very good to the world. You remember that.

They have given us:
cars - toyota, nissan, honda, mitusbishi, lexus, mazda
electronics - panasonic, nintendo, sony, sharp, seiko, toshiba
Im sure others can add to these lists.

My wife!!! (she is Japanese) and my children!!!!!!!

rebel10

ilovesleep wrote: »

Japan has been very good to the world. You remember that.

They have given us:
cars - toyota, nissan, honda, mitusbishi, lexus, mazda
electronics - panasonic, nintendo, sony, sharp, seiko, toshiba
Im sure others can add to these lists.

I wouldn't bother replying to him, he was just trolling.That list wouldn't justify the reasons why we should care about the Japanese people right now.
Have just caught up from where i left this thread last night, really insightful stuff. I like many wouldn't have a clue about nuclear physics, so it's brilliant that many things have been explained here. It's also a pity that so many have just squabbled/trolled on a thread which, in many parts, is quite terrifying to read.

mravaya

mravaya wrote: »

I am getting this info from Japanese Forums, but there is talk of some 15 residents have been admitted to hospital already and there more expected. people are losing confidence in the authorities God help them all!!!!

Sky news is now confirming a number of people admitted to hospital because of radiation

sunflower27

It is heartening to see how countries pull together in times of serious crisis. I suppose I am so used to seeing/hearing about war, threats, conflict that it almost comes as a shock to see people actually prepared to give their all to help.

laros

laros wrote: »

Just came across this link... apologies if it's already been posted....




http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/japan-quake-2011/beforeafter.htm

Wow.... That link really brings it home.

Turtwig

One of the things that truly has amazed about this disaster (apart from the man found floating with his house roof 9 miles out at sea) is the Japanese response to this disaster. They're extremely coordinated, they've made very specific requests of what type of assistance, what experts, what equipment, what machinery etc. they need from foreign assistance and where they want them. It's extremely coordinated and efficient. Contrast this to haiti which was a uncoordinated mess with everyone offering to do as much as they could but often ended up being used in an extremely inefficient manner. People are offering Japan their sympathies but I also think they deserve one heck of a lot of praise.

yoganmahew

Seaneh wrote: »

Nobody said the explosion was from an aftershock... There was a buildup of hydrogen in a containment chamber and it blew. That in itself doesn't mean the reactor was damaged though.

You're begin more than just a tad sensationalist about this...

Where did the hydrogen come from? My limited understanding (from other posts) is that it could only come from the reactor and that could only happen if the containment was damaged.

vicwatson

One of the things that truly has amazed about this disaster (apart from the man found floating with roof 9 miles out at sea)) is the Japanese response to this disaster. They're extremely coordinated, they've made very specific requests of what type of assistance, what experts, what equipment, what machinery etc. they need from foreign assistance and where they want them. It's extremely coordinated and efficient. Contrast this to haiti which was a uncoordinated mess with everyone offering to do as much as they could but often ended up being used in an extremely efficient manner. People are offering Japan their sympathies but I also think they deserve one heck of a lot of praise.

I do agree, but that said even the ever efficient Japanese are completely overwhelmed by this situation they now find themselves in, they cannot cope by themselves even though they are normally so efficient.

It's probably incorrect to compare the two - Haiti was an uncordinated mess of a country BEFORE any natural occurences - therein lies the difference (and that's not to criticise Haiti, just that was a fact)

gbee

LighterGuy wrote: »

Example, say we had a nuclear plant in cork the risk out weighs their chances of handling it. Its sickening.

Technically we have actually. Not discussing this here but we have Radioactive waste on Little Island.

Turtwig

yoganmahew wrote: »

Where did the hydrogen come from? My limited understanding (from other posts) is that it could only come from the reactor and that could only happen if the containment was damaged.

It can come from two places that I know of. Water in the reactor core as you mentioned and it is also possible they were using it as coolant for some other critical function in the containment building such as generators.

mgmt

yoganmahew wrote: »

Where did the hydrogen come from? My limited understanding (from other posts) is that it could only come from the reactor and that could only happen if the containment was damaged.

It appears that as the level of coolant in the reactor vessel lowered, a portion of the top of the uranium fuel rods was exposed. This may have caused zirconium cladding of the fuel rods to react with water to create hydrogen. This hydrogen was vented, then somehow ignited, causing the explosion.

Taken from a nuclear website. http://www.nei.org/resourcesandstats/documentlibrary/protectingtheenvironment/factsheet/events-at-the-fukushima-daiichi-nuclear-power-plant-in-japan-

gbee

Deleted User wrote: »

Overheal, why won't it cool down by itself? Is it like a reaction is occurring and it's getting hotter and hotter?

It never stops in reality. The reaction, once started never stops. All that is applied is a brake by withdrawing the rods under coolant. They are still active in this state, 'just' much less so.

Eventually fuel rods will be consumed to lower than necessary for the production of energy, but the reaction continues, hence radioactive waste.

Brenireland

Sky News Twitter saying another Magnitude 7 or more Expected to hit Japan within next 3 days.

It will be interesting to see if the close up of the moon to earth on the 19th has any effect's on Plant Earth,as some have predicted.

& Supposedly a Solar Flair breached the Earth's atmosphere on Sunday last and astrologist's believe this will occur more often and will disrupt Technology on Earth.

Feeona

Malty_T wrote: »

One of the things that truly has amazed about this disaster (apart from the man found floating with his house roof 9 miles out at sea) is the Japanese response to this disaster. They're extremely coordinated, they've made very specific requests of what type of assistance, what experts, what equipment, what machinery etc. they need from foreign assistance and where they want them. It's extremely coordinated and efficient. Contrast this to haiti which was a uncoordinated mess with everyone offering to do as much as they could but often ended up being used in an extremely inefficient manner. People are offering Japan their sympathies but I also think they deserve one heck of a lot of praise.

They are amazing alright. I spent a year over there a few years back, everything runs like clockwork. If you consider the size of the population though, 130,000,000 in a country roughly the size of New Zealand, you can see why they have to be so organised. The Japanese are often made fun of because of their rituals and organisation. The sheer size of their population is the reason why the Japanese live their lives as they do.

My heart goes out to them:(

aligator_am

Brenireland wrote: »

Sky News Twitter saying another Magnitude 7 or more Expected to hit Japan within next 3 days.

It will be interesting to see if the close up of the moon to earth on the 19th has any effect's on Plant Earth,as some have predicted.

& Supposedly a Solar Flair breached the Earth's atmosphere on Sunday last and astrologist's believe this will occur more often and will disrupt Technology on Earth.

I was listening to an interesting interview with some scientist about that on Friday, he indicated that the moon and solar activity seems to cause earthquakes.

Will post the vid if I can find it.

blah

Brenireland wrote: »

Sky News Twitter saying another Magnitude 7 or more Expected to hit Japan within next 3 days.

It will be interesting to see if the close up of the moon to earth on the 19th has any effect's on Plant Earth,as some have predicted.

& Supposedly a Solar Flair breached the Earth's atmosphere on Sunday last and astrologist's believe this will occur more often and will disrupt Technology on Earth.

Astronomers?

Brenireland

blah wrote: »

Astronomers?

yep,oops