Japanese earthquake / tsunami discussion

Wolfe Tone

aligator_am wrote: »

As others in this thread have said, for all the problems we face in Ireland, when you see what's happening in Japan at the minute we really should be thankful that we're not subjected to the wrath of nature.

I've no belief in God or any of that stuff so I won't pray but my thoughts and best wishes are with the folks in Japan, they're a sturdy people and I hope they make it through this OK.

Check this thread out, tsunamis in Ireland.


http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?t=7333

galwayrush

Apparently there's an active volcano that is overdue an eruption on one of the Canary Islands, if that blows, it could cause a mountain to collapse into the sea, which would cause a massive tsumani which would reach Ireland, being more severe on our South Coast, but still remain powerful enough to cause damage as it makes it's way up along the Western seaboard areas.

Thrill

1. 1456: Radiation levels at the Onagawa nuclear power plant in Miyagi prefecture are about 700 times higher than normal but are still low, the Tohoku Electric Power Company has said, according to the Maichi Shinbum website. Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency dismissed the possibility that the Onagawa plant was to blame, saying it was likely caused by the radioactive substances that scattered when a hydrogen explosion hit the troubled Fukushima plant on Saturday.
   
   

RonMexico

galwayrush wrote: »

Apparently there's an active volcano that is overdue an eruption on one of the Canary Islands, if that blows, it could cause a mountain to collapse into the sea, which would cause a massive tsumani which would reach Ireland, being more severe on our South Coast, but still remain powerful enough to cause damage as it makes it's way up along the Western seaboard areas.

Apparently that has been vastly exaggerated.

Thrill

2.59pm: Tania Branigan has spoken to Dr Alexander Densmore from the Institute of Hazard, Risk and Resilience at Durham University about the risk of aftershocks. The Japanese meteorological agency has warned there is a 70% possibility of a tremor of magnitude 7 or higher in the next three days.

The rule of thumb for aftershocks is that you can expect a factor of about one magnitude less than the biggest shock. The other thing is 'Omori's law' - really an observation - that the rate of aftershocks decreases in a very predictable way.


The bigger the earthquake, the bigger the change in stress and the more aftershocks. There are many more aftershocks than after the Sichuan earthquake in China, but that was magnitude 7.9 and this was 8.9. You have 30 times more energy released. It's not about how much the ground shakes, but how much energy is released, because that's what gives other parts of the fault increased stress.


That's what aftershocks are: areas around [the location of the original shock] relieving stress. But those also affect other parts of the fault: you get a cascade effect.

Rob A. Bank

Thrill wrote: »

1. 1456: Radiation levels at the Onagawa nuclear power plant in Miyagi prefecture are about 700 times higher than normal but are still low, the Tohoku Electric Power Company has said, according to the Maichi Shinbum website. Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency dismissed the possibility that the Onagawa plant was to blame, saying it was likely caused by the radioactive substances that scattered when a hydrogen explosion hit the troubled Fukushima plant on Saturday.
   
   

This means that the explosion at Fukushima has caused radiation to rise 700 times higher than normal at a spot 135 km away, if you are to believe them.

If so, this incident is most probably far more serious than the spin to date suggests !

God help Japan...

Thrill

The earthquake that devastated parts of northern Japan caused as much as $35 billion in insured losses, a figure that would mark Friday's quake as the costliest ever for the insurance industry even before the effects of the tsunami are factored in, according to a disaster-modeling company.

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20110313-701979.html

Setun

opinion guy wrote:

Had not heard about this at all ? Whats the story ?

I've heard very little myself, only passing references to it. Most news agencies are obsessed with the idea of a potential nuclear explosion rather than reporting other perhaps equally serious effects of the tsunami/quake.

Killer Pigeon

Dear thread,

<random comment>

Yours sincerely,

KP.

PS; Ban me (that's your cue Micky Dolenz)! After Hours is a bloody joke anyway! The drama amongst these thank whores who think their keyboard clicking will help anything is really quite amazing.
PS-2; Donate and quit your keyboard clicking!!


Mod Edit: Poster banned.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

JONJO THE MISER

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

After Hours is a bloody joke anyway!

The other way around really.

cherryghost

The 3rd Nuclear station, which has been mentioned once or twice, is now under severe thread from an explosion.


1541: A former nuclear power plant designer has said Japan is facing an extremely grave crisis and called on the government to release more information, which he said was being suppressed. Masashi Goto told a news conference in Tokyo that one of the reactors at the Fukushima-Daiichi plant was "highly unstable", and that if there was a meltdown the "consequences would be tremendous". He said such an event might be very likely indeed. So far, the government has said a meltdown would not lead to a sizeable leak of radioactive materials.

1548: Mr Goto said the reactors at the Fukushima-Daiichi nuclear plant were suffering pressure build-ups way beyond that for which they were designed. There was a severe risk of an explosion, with radioactive material being strewn over a very wide area - beyond the 20km evacuation zone set up by the authorities - he added. Mr Goto calculated that because Reactor No 3 at Fukushima-Daiichi - where pressure is rising and there is a risk of an explosion - used a type of fuel known as Mox, a mixture of plutonium oxide and uranium oxide, the radioactive fallout from any meltdown might be twice as bad.

1553: He accused the government of deliberately withholding vital information that would allow outside experts help solve the problems. "For example, there has not been enough information about the hydrogen being vented. We don't know how much was vented and how radioactive it was." He also described the use of sea water to cool the cores of the reactors at Fukushima-Daiichi as highly unusual and dangerous.

1558: He described the worst-case scenario: "It is difficult to say, but that would be a core meltdown. If the rods fall and mix with water, the result would be an explosion of solid material like a volcano spreading radioactive material. Steam or a hydrogen explosion caused by the mix would spread radioactive waste more than 50km. Also, this would be multiplied. There are many reactors in the area so there would be many Chernobyls."

Helix

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

This means that the explosion at Fukushima has caused radiation to rise 700 times higher than normal at a spot 135 km away, if you are to believe them.

doesnt it mean that this second nuclear plant is leaking radiation, rather than it being the radiation from the original ones travelling over there?

Wolfe Tone

Not to sound like a dick, but could any radioactive material potentionally reach us?

Brenireland

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Not to sound like a dick, but could any radioactive material potentionally reach us?

Wind directions would be the decider their.

Helix

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Not to sound like a dick, but could any radioactive material potentionally reach us?

possibly, but you'll be grand

potassium iodide pills for a few weeks and non-essential outdoors time curbed would be worst case scenario for people not in the immediate vacinity i believe

andrew

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Not to sound like a dick, but could any radioactive material potentionally reach us?

Not in any quantity which would affect your health.

maquiladora

Kyodo News Agency: Cooling system pump stops at Tokai nuclear power plant



This would be the third nuclear plant reporting issues now.

opinion guy

Thrill wrote: »

There are many more aftershocks than after the Sichuan earthquake in China, but that was magnitude 7.9 and this was 8.9.

Actually its been upgraded to 9.0

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

This means that the explosion at Fukushima has caused radiation to rise 700 times higher than normal at a spot 135 km away, if you are to believe them.

If so, this incident is most probably far more serious than the spin to date suggests !

God help Japan...

What in God's name are you jabbering on about. The radiation at Onagawa is from Onagawa, not Fukushima

maquiladora

opinion guy wrote: »

Actually its been upgraded to 9.0


What in God's name are you jabbering on about. The radiation at Onagawa is from Onagawa, not Fukushima

Well the nuclear safety agency is saying that its "due to radiation leakage at another plant in a neighbouring prefecture" not Onagawa itself.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/world/onagawa-plant-functioning-properly-1.1040795

Whether that is true or not is another thing.

Topper Harley01

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Not to sound like a dick, but could any radioactive material potentionally reach us?

No.

The best thing to remember here is that there has been over 2000 nuclear tests on this planet, of which 250 alone have been in the upper atmosphere. And those were massive nuclear explosions of the worst kind. We are all walking around just fine after them, so a tiny puff of radiation is a non event in comparison. The radiation gets dispersed very quickly to normal background radiation levels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_testing

So everyone calm down, drink some tea, and stop the hyperventilating. We are in no harm whatsoever.

I think some people really get a hard on at the thought of a doomsday scenario and deliberately spreading false panic, particularly on this thread.

Pompey Magnus

opinion guy wrote: »

What in God's name are you jabbering on about. The radiation at Onagawa is from Onagawa, not Fukushima

Did you read his quote?

" Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency dismissed the possibility that the Onagawa plant was to blame, saying it was likely caused by the radioactive substances that scattered when a hydrogen explosion hit the troubled Fukushima plant on Saturday."

opinion guy

cherryghost wrote: »

The 3rd Nuclear station, which has been mentioned once or twice, is now under severe thread from an explosion.


1541: A former nuclear power plant designer has said Japan is facing an extremely grave crisis and called on the government to release more information, which he said was being suppressed. Masashi Goto told a news conference in Tokyo that one of the reactors at the Fukushima-Daiichi plant was "highly unstable", and that if there was a meltdown the "consequences would be tremendous". He said such an event might be very likely indeed. So far, the government has said a meltdown would not lead to a sizeable leak of radioactive materials.

1548: Mr Goto said the reactors at the Fukushima-Daiichi nuclear plant were suffering pressure build-ups way beyond that for which they were designed. There was a severe risk of an explosion, with radioactive material being strewn over a very wide area - beyond the 20km evacuation zone set up by the authorities - he added. Mr Goto calculated that because Reactor No 3 at Fukushima-Daiichi - where pressure is rising and there is a risk of an explosion - used a type of fuel known as Mox, a mixture of plutonium oxide and uranium oxide, the radioactive fallout from any meltdown might be twice as bad.

1553: He accused the government of deliberately withholding vital information that would allow outside experts help solve the problems. "For example, there has not been enough information about the hydrogen being vented. We don't know how much was vented and how radioactive it was." He also described the use of sea water to cool the cores of the reactors at Fukushima-Daiichi as highly unusual and dangerous.

1558: He described the worst-case scenario: "It is difficult to say, but that would be a core meltdown. If the rods fall and mix with water, the result would be an explosion of solid material like a volcano spreading radioactive material. Steam or a hydrogen explosion caused by the mix would spread radioactive waste more than 50km. Also, this would be multiplied. There are many reactors in the area so there would be many Chernobyls."

This seems highly speculative no ?
But I will say this - the Japanese government does have form for siding with industry in environmental disasters. In the 50's and 60's there was a massive methylmercury posioning disaster in several areas due to industrial waste. There were multiple coverups and its still in the courts now http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minamata_disease#Minamata_disease_today

Thrill

opinion guy wrote: »

Actually its been upgraded to 9.0

That was a written by a journalist, not me.

opinion guy wrote: »

What in God's name are you jabbering on about. The radiation at Onagawa is from Onagawa, not Fukushima

Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency dismissed the possibility that the Onagawa plant was to blame, saying it was likely caused by the radioactive substances that scattered when a hydrogen explosion hit the troubled Fukushima plant on Saturday.

BBC

ilovesleep

@cherrygoat,
I hope things don't get that bad. Things are bad enough as it is for them. Hope the fuk.... nuclear plant stabilizes soon.

maquiladora wrote: »

Kyodo News Agency: Cooling system pump stops at Tokai nuclear power plant



This would be the third nuclear plant reporting issues now.

Not looking good unfortunately.

0verblood

It's like a facking disaster movie at this stage.

3ndahalfof6

cherryghost wrote: »

The 3rd Nuclear station, which has been mentioned once or twice, is now under severe thread from an explosion.


1541: A former nuclear power plant designer has said Japan is facing an extremely grave crisis and called on the government to release more information, which he said was being suppressed. Masashi Goto told a news conference in Tokyo that one of the reactors at the Fukushima-Daiichi plant was "highly unstable", and that if there was a meltdown the "consequences would be tremendous". He said such an event might be very likely indeed. So far, the government has said a meltdown would not lead to a sizeable leak of radioactive materials.

1548: Mr Goto said the reactors at the Fukushima-Daiichi nuclear plant were suffering pressure build-ups way beyond that for which they were designed. There was a severe risk of an explosion, with radioactive material being strewn over a very wide area - beyond the 20km evacuation zone set up by the authorities - he added. Mr Goto calculated that because Reactor No 3 at Fukushima-Daiichi - where pressure is rising and there is a risk of an explosion - used a type of fuel known as Mox, a mixture of plutonium oxide and uranium oxide, the radioactive fallout from any meltdown might be twice as bad.

1553: He accused the government of deliberately withholding vital information that would allow outside experts help solve the problems. "For example, there has not been enough information about the hydrogen being vented. We don't know how much was vented and how radioactive it was." He also described the use of sea water to cool the cores of the reactors at Fukushima-Daiichi as highly unusual and dangerous.

1558: He described the worst-case scenario: "It is difficult to say, but that would be a core meltdown. If the rods fall and mix with water, the result would be an explosion of solid material like a volcano spreading radioactive material. Steam or a hydrogen explosion caused by the mix would spread radioactive waste more than 50km. Also, this would be multiplied. There are many reactors in the area so there would be many Chernobyls."

I do believe this may be closer to the truth than we are getting, it would not be the first time information was being held back,

if the evacuation area is increased it will be very telling about what may happen,

I just hope they are all wrong and it will slowly dissipate, but I am not holding my breath.

maquiladora

Tokai No.2 Power Station is the latest site reporting cooling problems.
"Japan's first large-scale nuclear power plant".

http://www.japc.co.jp/tokai/english/plant_guide/tokai02.html

opinion guy

I stand corrected.
Apologies Rob.A.Bank.

peabutler

Does anyone have a simple explanation for the most realistic outcome here??