Japanese earthquake / tsunami discussion

Turtwig

maquiladora wrote: »

How can an explosion as huge as that, felt 30 miles away, not damage the reactor dangerously. Incredible engineering.

How can plants survive a magnitude 9.1 earthquake accompanied with a tsunami. I daresay the documentary of the struggle these engineers have had with the failure of the emergency backups will definitely be a compelling story to see the various techniques they used to supply power to and operate the cooling systems. Let's just hope that their efforts succeed. Either way it has been a valiant and exhaustive effort so far. Whatever about the secretaries and translators those engineers must be absolutely and utterly shattered.

amacachi

Einhard wrote: »

So, there's been quakes, a tsunami, poetential meltdowns, and now the threat of volcanic eruption?!:eek: If this was a disaster movie it'd be mocked for being too over the top.

Eruptions are fairly commonplace, from the lack of news about it I don't think it's doing too much damage right now.

neaideabh

what really annoys me about the reporting is that on CNN now it says
"Breaking News - Washed away. Entire town destroyed by Tsunami".

Now I assume that they are talking about the Tsunami from Friday, but with all the unconfirmed reports of varying stories flying around, such as new Tsunami's, how am I gonna realise it is actually "Breaking News"???. I think all news channels (especially Sky) should not be allowed used the term "Breaking news"! Head wrecking tabloid journalism!

Yakult

Sky are reporting a 3 meter wave approaching again

amacachi

Yakult wrote: »

Sky are reporting a 3 meter wave approaching again

Where? Sports at the moment.
EDIT: Looks like the same report from earlier. :S

hinault

Just watching Russian TV : the tsunami warning has led to widespread traffic panic.
Petrol shortages are exacerbating the removal of people from outlying areas.

Standard Toaster

maquiladora wrote: »

How can an explosion as huge as that, felt 30 miles away, not damage the reactor dangerously. Incredible engineering.

There are five levels of shielding:

1. The fuel rods inside the reactor pressure vessel are coated in thick Zircaloy shielding;
2. The reactor pressure vessel itself is manufactured out of 6-inch-thick (150 mm) steel, with extremely high temperature, vibration, and corrosion resistant surgical stainless steel grade grade 316L plate on both the inside and outside;
3. The primary containment structure is made of steel 1 inch thick;
4. The secondary containment structure is made of steel-reinforced, pre-stressed concrete 1.2–2.4 meters (4–8 ft) thick.
5. The reactor building (the shield wall/missile shield) is also made of steel-reinforced, pre-stressed concrete 0.3 m to 1 m (1–3 feet) thick.

Yakult

amacachi wrote: »

Eruptions are fairly commonplace, from the lack of news about it I don't think it's doing too much damage right now.

But the outcome isnt always predictable. Could be a bigger eruption, who knows until its over?

amacachi

Yakult wrote: »

But the outcome isnt always predictable. Could be a bigger eruption, who knows until its over?

Hence why I was asking if there's any info other than a video which I don't have the expertise to infer an awful lot from.

Turtwig

amacachi wrote: »

Where? Sports at the moment.
EDIT: Looks like the same report from earlier. :S

What sky news am I watching?? All I had was sports and now ads. Speaking of which wtf is with the eerie sounding music before and after ads?

Standard Toaster

The Nuclear Energy Institute posted this image of the type of reactor design at Fukushima, which is helpful in understanding what's going on:

Einhard

It just struck me that Iran are in the process of building nuclear facilities. How on earth would they cope with such a situation?

MissJustice

Between this

amacachi wrote: »

Eruptions are fairly commonplace, from the lack of news about it I don't think it's doing too much damage right now.

and this http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2011/03/13/2011-03-13_hundreds_flee_in_japan_after_shinmoedake_volcano_begins_spewing_ash_boulders.html

where it states that the volcano has been more active over the past few weeks. Japan spends E100 million a year on assessing earthquakes, and with all this investment plus the information above, surely there were enough tell tale signs/technology to give them some indictation this disaster was on its way? Can someone clarify this for me?

Duiske

maquiladora wrote: »

How can an explosion as huge as that, felt 30 miles away, not damage the reactor dangerously. Incredible engineering.

You could slam a plane into these reactors and they would probably survive, but it's very simple to destroy them from within. Just cut off the coolant supply.

Einhard

Malty_T wrote: »

Speaking of which wtf is with the eerie sounding music before and after ads?

It's almost as if they thought, hmmm it's not horrific enough, let's add some ominous music. I think Sky have had reasonably good coverage, but that kind of thing really reflects poorly on them.

Thrill

1. 0328: Seven people are missing and three people have been injured by the explosion at the Fukushima 1 nuclear plant, the AFP news agency reports, quoting an official from Tepco, the company which operates the plant.
   
   

maquiladora

7 missing at the plant after the explosion.

Very sad. Those poor workers.

Edit : Good news.

NHK: The 7 missing people at the nuclear plant, as reported earlier, are now found. 6 people in total were injured.

amacachi

Malty_T wrote: »

What sky news am I watching?? All I had was sports and now ads. Speaking of which wtf is with the eerie sounding music before and after ads?

Ticker at the bottom was mentioning the 3 metre wave on the way, seems they just didn't get around to removing it.

ToniTuddle

There have been a few small but good stories of rescues in this article don't know if anyone posted it before.


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2011/03/13/2011-03-13_japanese_man_rescued_9_miles_out_to_sea_after_house_swept_away_by_tidal_wave.html

MissJustice

Does anyone else think Sky News are useless at up to date information on this issue?

hinault

maquiladora wrote: »

7 missing at the plant after the explosion.

Very sad. Those poor workers.

Indeed.

They're brave people who are working to contain this explosion and it's fallout.

My thoughts and prayers are with the people of Japan.

amacachi

MissJustice wrote: »

Between this

and this http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2011/03/13/2011-03-13_hundreds_flee_in_japan_after_shinmoedake_volcano_begins_spewing_ash_boulders.html

where it states that the volcano has been more active over the past few weeks. Japan spends E100 million a year on assessing earthquakes, and with all this investment plus the information above, surely there were enough tell tale signs/technology to give them some indictation this disaster was on its way? Can someone clarify this for me?

Obviously not. Earthquakes and volcanos are still massively hard to predict. Tension in one part of a fault can seem like evidence of a quake coming up but it may just slip instead or the quake could be hundreds or more of miles away from where it's being measured.

Yakult

Im hoping that they will have enough time so that America can bring them coolant.

maquiladora

No.3 reactor - The level of water in the core reactor has dropped by 1800mm.

The container vessel has not been damaged. The container's pressure initially rose, but has now stabilized.

-Edano

Standard Toaster

Duiske wrote: »

You could slam a plane into these reactors and they would probably survive, but it's very simple to destroy them from within. Just cut off the coolant supply.

No probably about it, Fukushima 3 was built in '76

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Containment_building

The containment building itself is typically an airtight steel structure enclosing the reactor normally sealed off from the outside atmosphere. The steel is either free-standing or attached to the concrete missile shield. In the United States, the design and thickness of the containment and the missile shield are governed by federal regulations (10 CFR 50.55a), and must be strong enough to withstand the impact of a fully loaded passenger airliner without rupture

Over engineered thankfully. Like you say, take away the coolant and boom. Critical temperature is about 1100 °C for a BWR

MissJustice

amacachi wrote: »

Obviously not. Earthquakes and volcanos are still massively hard to predict. Tension in one part of a fault can seem like evidence of a quake coming up but it may just slip instead or the quake could be hundreds or more of miles away from where it's being measured.

"Eruptions and quakes are common in Japan's "ring of fire."
The volcano erupted in January - the first major seismic activity on the mountain in 52 years. Scientists say lava had been building up in recent weeks"

This says alot to me.....

Turtwig

Update from World Nuclear News.

First published: 3.08am GMT
UPDATE 1: 3.25am addition of background information
Another hydrogen explosion has rocked the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, this time at the third reactor unit. Initial analysis is that the containment structure remains intact.

News of the explosion came at the same time as details of a new earthquake but it is unclear if the events are connected.

Chief cabinet secretary Yukiyo Edamo appeared on television stating that the blast was a hydrogen explosion. He said contact had been made with the plant manager whose belief is that the containment structure, important to nuclear safety, remains intact. The rationale for that statement, Edamo said was that water injection operations have continued and pressure readings from the reactor system remained within a comfortable range. More information, including radiation levels was to come.

Fukushima Daiichi 3 was the subject of sustained efforts yesterday by engineers working to ensure that adequate cooling water is available for decay heat removal. Seawater was being injected into the reactor vessel and levels had initially risen as expected. However, a gauge indicated that the rise had tailed off, despite ongoing seawater injection.

The gauge in question indicated that water levels are around two metres below the top of the nuclear fuel assemblies, which would represent a very serious situation with the risk of fuel damage. However, the Nuclear and Indsutrial Safety Agency was satisfied that pressure within containment was at comfortable levels, while radiation had been decreasing.

It had been difficult for Tepco to open an air-operated pressure relief valve, but engineers solved this problem by connecting a compressor.

Thrill

Video of that explosion at reactor 3...........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_N-wNFSGyQ

Star Bingo

its all going off there i'll tell you what you couldn't get more decent immigrants if they ever had to flee that turbulent region; to take our share onboard would be an honour for sure - chicks, preferably am gettin some sleep in - will catch up.

maquiladora

Edano : 'Taking all data into account, it's very similar to the first explosion. There's very little possibility of there being a big leak.'