Freesat , Wifi signal and BBC i player

gsxr1

I am trying to get the best from my freesat box.

There is an internet connection on it.

I have a Wifi network in my home.

I have a bbc i player channel.


I dont have a wired internet connection in the living room

I dont have a UK IP address.


Is there such a thing as a stand alone wifi recever that could be placed beside the freesat box to give it a internet connection?

watty

The iPlayer won't work in Ireland.

A Cat5e cable is best and easier to run than Coax.

You can get WiFi to ethernet Bridge boxes. Some sold in pairs, some will connect an ethernet device to existing WiFi.

Avoid ethernet mains plugs as they create huge amount of RF interference.

Sam Russell

Will any WiFi USB stick do this job?

pa990

Use a power line adapter.
I've used them and never her any interference.
But I player won't load if you have an irish ip.
So it's a bit of a waste of time.

MACHEAD

watty wrote: »

Avoid ethernet mains plugs as they create huge amount of RF interference.

Hadn't considered that, in fact I had planned to buy a couple of those in the comming weeks. Just done a quick 'recce' on the web there now, it seems they blast wdeband RF 'scatter gun' like thorough the mains wiring wreaking havock with other RF equipment.

This brings back memories of the old Russian 'over the horizon' radar, anybody remember that? Used to be bloody annoying how there was no 11M, when the skip carried it over this way.

excollier

watty wrote: »

The iPlayer won't work in Ireland.

A Cat5e cable is best and easier to run than Coax.

You can get WiFi to ethernet Bridge boxes. Some sold in pairs, some will connect an ethernet device to existing WiFi.

Avoid ethernet mains plugs as they create huge amount of RF interference.

I know that many people use ethernet mains plugs for Dream Boxes/ Linux receivers with no problems at all, certainly no interference with the tv set.
As i type this, I am watching tv, while the computer is linked to the router, via a homeplug plugged in behind the tv, no problem or interference.
Maybe some give problems, but not the ones I am using.
Just an observation.

watty

They don't interfere with TVs. Ever. Yet.

The one you are using is only legal via a loophole in CE certification. It's generating 20dB more than legal limit between 1MHz and 30MHz.

The newer faster ones do this up to nearly 200MHz.

No brand are compliant in reality. All use loop hole in Certification and test procedures.

excollier

So then what is the problem with them. They work well and provide a neat solution for network connections.

watty

But they generate more than 20dB (= x100) the maximum allowed domestic interference, wideband between 1MHz and 30MHz as they are really transmitters!

Cat5e makes no Interference, is cheaper, neat and 1,000Mbps compared to 15Mbps to 85Mbps of the plug adaptors. The Fast plug adaptors (so called Gigabit powerline/comtrend/homeplug) transmit even more power on all the channels from 1MHz to nearly 200MHz

The Manufacturers (Comtrend, Belkin, Homeplug alliance) have "gamed" the CE mark system by unrealistic test scenarios.

The equivalent is manufacturers that get CFL bulbs or PC SMPSUs CE approved and then replace the filter choke with 2x wire links and leave out the filter capacitors.

As more people get them in urban areas or apartment blocks the Interference to Radio services increases all the time.

excollier

Trouble with Cat5e cabling is what if your router has been installed in another part of the house (mine is upstairs), are you going to start trailing cables all over the place or clipping them to walls, or even channelling them into walls.
Ask your wife and see what response you get, you may find yourself sleeping in the garage.
Granted, homeplugs may cause some interference, but unless someone outlaws them, then they are just too easy to use. No mess, instant install, and moveable, and effective.
What route is most likely to be taken, do you think
Even if they were outlawed, who is going to enforce any ban? It just won't happen.
The obvious answer is get the router installed behind the tv, then there's no problem, one short cable to the stb.
Having said all that, life is too short to add iPlayer to the long list of channels I already have, with no time to watch what I already have.
On a slightly different tack, any co-ax less than WF100,TX100 etc really
should be outlawed. RG6 and less is only fit for hanging wet laundry on.:D Rant over.
I learn more every day from this forum, thank you all!:)

ShaneOC

watty wrote: »

You can get WiFi to ethernet Bridge boxes. Some sold in pairs, some will connect an ethernet device to existing WiFi.

Any recommendations for one of these? I have an existing router and would like to set up a bridge. So ideally I just need a router that can be configure into some sort of bridge mode. Having difficulty finding a router that can be configured in this way.

Google has failed me!

bittihuduga

d-link have few wifi bridges. linksys and few netgear can take the tomato firmware and act as wifi bridge mode. also u can get vonet wifi to ethernet bridge if u have only one device to connect.
i use this http://www.vonets.com/product/show_pro.asp?ID=261

rlogue

Cat 5 may be neat if it's put into correct channeling and hidden behind a wall but given the choice between buying a pair of homeplug units and calling in the electricians to wire the house for Cat5 cabling it's the homeplug solution for me.

Put bluntly a couple of grand for a cabled house or a hundred for some homeplugs I know I'd pick the homeplugs.

On the other hand if I were building a house from scratch I would pre-wire it with two sets of CT100 cable and Cat6 to keep my options open.

watty

So you don't care about the illegal and increasing RF pollution?
If 20% or so of people had the the high speed Gigabit versions FM radio would be impacted.

What's the point of RF interference limits?

If they can make them without cheating, fine. But the fact is they don't really use the mains except for power. They are actually transmitting, yet pass the certification when they are not. That is cheating.

Shortwave and Medium wave broadcasters and listeners, HF Marine and Aeronautically are legally protected users of Spectrum from 1 to 30MHz.

On the bands from 1MHz to 200MHz, there are more legally protected users.

The Power Ethernet units typically generate 20dB or more (x100 times or more) than the legal limit. They are getting a CE mark under false colours.

Why shouldn't SMPSU makers (PC psus to Plug top chargers or CFL makers) save money by not bothering to filter? That is less interference than the Ethernet plugs make!

For 80 years people ran the phone wires (similar size and appearance) around the rooms. For over 50 years same with Coax cable for Radio, TV and Cable. Also there is WiFi for shorter distances. We use two WiFi points to cover the house (both connected by Cat5e to switch).

You won't run your pair of much bulkier sat cables for PVR over a Plug Adaptor either.

"couple of grand" is nonsense comparison for most Home Plug / Comtrend Ethernet adaptor users.

rlogue

If these devices are so bad then there should be the right channels for Radio Hams like yourself to get the authorities to stop approving these devices for public sale.

All five of my sat cables come into one point in the house, that's a cabinet under the TV that contains my HTPC, a Dreambox and a Techomate to drive the motorised dish.

After that all TV signals are distributed by wireless downstairs and by homeplug for the upstairs rooms that don't get a robust wifi signal due to the thick walls in my house. I get multichannel TV and video recording anywhere I want in my house and all radio is either Wifi or DAB.

Kristopherus

@ Watty. While I am a fan, I think your techie posts go way over the heads of most ordinary folk who just want a simple solution for their problem. In this case its homeplugs. Most people don't give a tuppeny damn about interference. And homeplugs in a standard house will not cause any noticeable interference. At least it dose'nt in my gaff, and I have 4 of them in my gaff.

watty

Simply not true. The interference is huge on MW and SW on the regular ones, and up past VHF Radio on the Gigabit ones.

Just because you are not affected doesn't mean there is no problem. There is a problem. It's worse the more are sold. It's because of self certification and the Regulators not doing proper proactive testing. The manufacturers are cheating.

rlogue

Did a quick tune around the MW band this morning. No extra noticeable interference. I checked in particular France Bleu on 864 kHz and BBC Radio 4 on 720 kHz and these are coming in as normal. Haven't checked the SW or LW bands on my Murphy but I normally operate that radio with my Wireless network and satellite boxes switched off as these devices generate a lot of electrical mush as the radio is next to them.

watty

They operate above 1MHz, so France Bleu on 864 kHz and BBC Radio 4 on 720 kHz won't be affected.

The "better" Ethernet plugs only "transmit" when you are transferring data (with amount of interference related to data). They test all of them with no data being transmitted for Interference compliance to CE. Some manufacturers test them singly.

A mains powered Router or WiFi or Switch is tested the same way for Interference generated on to Mains, but in those cases it makes no difference that there is no computer data transfer.

We can argue what the Interference permitted should be, but obviously the way these adaptors are tested for CE certification isn't a "level playing field" or realistic.

See
http://www.nutwooduk.co.uk/default.aspx?id=17

Senior person from a Wireless ISP in Ireland:

Some PLT devices are worse than others because they leave all their carriers on all the time (DS2 chipset based devices such as comtrend)
ALL of units that were tested recently by the Norwegian regulator failed to meet the EN55022 standard by which the vendors claim CE compliance.
Some Units submitted for testing in the UK to an accredited test house were found to exceed EN55022 by over 30dB

These devices might be convenient, saving the installation of a few M of CAT5 and be available currently on the market in the EU but they cause horrendous radio interference and greatly exceed EMC standards.

Quite apart from the interference issue (which is a Genuine and severe problem) there is the issue of allowing devices to remain on the marketplace that do not meet EMC standards whilst operating as intended.

EMC (ElectroMagnetic Compatibility) is the art of compromise such that devices do not cause each other undue interference.

If these devices are allowed to continue to remain on the market whilst greatly exceeding the EMC limits that they are supposed to adhere to;

Why then should PC power supply manufacturers continue to fit expensive mains filtering ?
Why should CFL bulbs have filtering, why should any device be filtered in any way?

In a scenario where absence of these power supply filters was common then the mains would then be far too noisy for the PLT systems to operate at all (quite apart from all the radio interference caused of course ) They only operate successfully BECAUSE other devices adhere to the standards dictated by EMC laws and these laws have been enforced to date.

I have evaluated samples of various power line adapters here, at best in a near ideal set-up I was able to get a bit under 60Mbs out of a pair of '200Mbs' Units. once I went real world with these I managed between 6M and 20M

Not even as good as cat5 running at 100M in any scenario I tried. in all cases, even on a specially EMC filtered mains spur with around 60dB of isolation from the household ring main and lighting circuits there was enough radiation of RF noise from the comtrend devices to severely compromise Short-wave broadcast reception.

Outdoor PLT (Ethernet over Mains)

Quote:

Sumner said that the Manassas BPL system was "once touted as 'the most successful BPL deployment in the nation.' Manassas actually has demonstrated that there is no business case for BPL as a consumer broadband delivery medium."

There are two issues:
1) Speed. The Speed at substation when shared amongst a likely number of households results in the headline Mbps speed being Dialup speed per user. It's really only suitable for Smart Meters.

2) Interference. It causes Interference and is easily disrupted by Mobile Radio.

In Ireland the ESB has done trials, but has concentrated on adding Fibre to the Transmission network instead as it's cheaper to run, offers about 1000x capacity and creates nor is susceptible to Interference. Many ISPs and large businesses use ESB fibre for backhaul or point to point links.

From
http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2009/11/19/11206/
Quote:

According to ARRL Lab Manager and BPL expert Ed Hare, W1RFI, the only way that BPL can avoid causing harmful interference to licensed radio services "is to have sufficient filtering of the BPL signal on locally used spectrum. State-of-the-art BPL equipment can achieve 35 dB of filtering easily. This level of suppression of BPL noise has been shown to be a good general solution to avoid widespread interference problems. In residential areas, it is common to find people using Amateur Radio, Citizens Band and international shortwave broadcast spectrum."

BPL (Broadband over Power Lines) technology uses the electricity grid in a city and the wiring in individual homes to provide direct "plug in" broadband access through electricity sockets, rather than over phone or cable TV lines. Because BPL wiring is physically large, is often overhead and extends across entire communities, these systems pose a significant interference potential to over-the-air radio services, including Amateur Radio or new services such as DRM on Shortwave.

Everyone on the same substation transformer is using the same signal, thus the speed per user (like 3G Mobile) can be very low. If BPL is only used for Smart Metering then lower speed and more filtering to reduce interference to a usable level may be possible.

It would seem the "real" Interference threat is Homeplug / Comtrend and similar in home PLT (Power Line Transmission)

Sweden has now taken action: http://www.southgatearc.org/news/october2009/sweden_withdraws_pollluting_plt_equipment.htm

See also http://www.rsgb.org/emc/plt.php

http://www.compliance-club.com/PLT/Tim%20Williams%20EMCJ%20Issue%2080.pdf

But newer high speed plug units use more of the Radio band and can interfere not just with MW, Shortwave, CB and Amateurs but FM radio, Mobile and Aircraft

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/06/28/ofcom_pln/

Recent Ofcom report on PLT produced by "PA Consulting" seems largely to be a paper exercise and very flawed. See August 2010 Radcom.

Also

http://www.amateurradio.org.za/plcsarl.htm

Quote:

A PLT Project Team (PT) was formed in 2005 to
produce an amendment to CISPR 22 to cover special requirements
for PLT equipment and its first Committee Draft (CD) was
issued in February 2008 (doc. CISPR/I/257/CD). However, the
comments of 23 IEC members National Committees (NC) and the
European Broadcasting Union (EBU) showed insufficient support
for the selected approach (doc. CISPR/I/266A/CC) as only 6 NCs
supported the draft: Belgium, France, Israel, Italy, Spain and
Switzerland. Interestingly, the major European PLT technology
providers, developers and manufacturers reside in 5 of these
6 countries.

8 NCs strongly opposed the draft - Australia,
Austria, Cyprus, Denmark, Finland, South Africa, Sweden and the
United States of America - and some well-founded comments
revealed its true purpose: to camouflage an intended 18 dB
relaxation of the present PLT disturbance limits by introducing
a revised method of measurement with an estimated Longitudinal
Conversion Loss (LCL) of 24 dB in contrast to 6 dB in CISPR
22:2005.

http://www.rsgb.org/plt/
http://www.recelectronics.demon.co.uk/main-page.htm
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1346557

http://www.solwiseforum.co.uk/showthread.php?9755-NET-PL-1000M-and-DAB-Radio&p=45816#post45816

Just got a pair of NET-PL-1000M adaptors to link my Xbox360 up to my
network (had some older Comtrend adaptors BT gave me before, but
streaming video from my PC was sometimes a bit flaky).

They work great, but my DAB radio stops working whenever they're in use.
If I switch them off, a few seconds later the DAB comes back. Same
thing happens with FM radio.

excollier

So, as I asked earlier, even if homeplugs are outlawed, who will police much less enforce a ban on their use? This country is broke you know

watty

They won't be outlawed.