PDF on Dublins streets?

delta-boy

With the never ending gang killings and drugs trade in Ireland, particulary Dublin, do any of you think that it would be a genuinely good idea to have the Irish Army occupy checkpoints are inner city Dublin and its suburbs? I dont mean walking patrols and checkpoints every two streets but in certain key areas?

The public I think would enjoy the security that they would bring, and hopefully would put off or make them thugs **** themselves, they also wouldnt be seen as a foreign force etc...

I certainly wouldnt mind being stopped and asked any relevant info. I hope I dont seem like some daft cnut here but any replys are welcome.

-Thanks!

RMD

It wouldn't stop the drugs trade and would act as nothing more than an inconvenience to any murderers unfortunately. Most drugs seizures are made on storage spots for the gangs and road stops due to Garda intelligence. If the gangs are intent on killing someone, they'll find one way or another to go about it regardless of checkpoints and the likes.

The best way to combat this drug / gang problem is create a properly equipped, staffed and funded police force. If I'm not mistaken the unit created to deal with gang crime had a serious budget cut this year? That's just a fúcking joke, I know it's a recession but there's simply some areas you can't skim on.

Locust

OP i see what your saying... But i think that when you have to deploy 'soldiers' on the streets (no matter what nationality they are), i think there is a degree of 'loss of control' of the situation and of normality for society. It becomes a crisis situation and hit the front pages of the news etc...

If you deploy troops to assist local police, dont forget these troops are soldiers not police officers and are trained to react and meet lethal threats with lethal force. You can expect blood. Time and time again where soldiers are deployed blood is shed. You may end up ruling certain areas and gaining a degree of security but at the cost of normality of that communities life and having mindsets turn against you.

A typical example - look at northern ireland, i grew up seeing soldiers at every cross roads and belt fed machine guns in hedges, it was security by all means but it didn't solve the problems. A lot of BA soldiers in the north were from the North. Also look at bloody sunday - beyond the fact that they were the British Army but that they were - frontline soldiers/paratroopers were deployed at a civil rights protest. If you poke these guys of course they will respond with aggression and force - thats what they are programmed/trained to do no matter if they are British/Irish/French, whatever - they are soldiers and are trained to orders and will respond and they are very good at it.

I think the answer to the drug/gang problem is more so in the community itself - the people and also equipping the police/gardai with better resources, gear, intel etc.. throughout various offices and agencies...

BrianD

It would have no effect at all.

We had thesejoint army/Gardai checkpoints in the past. Didn't stop crime.

It has no reassuring effect on the public because if the army is on the streets, society is anything but secure.

Criminals just go around the check points. Business as usual.

Jcarroll07

Locust wrote: »

equipping the police/gardai with better resources, gear, intel etc.. throughout various offices and agencies...

Ya i think that is pretty accurate . If we had a good drugs/gang enforcement agency backed up by a better garda intelligence unit and other units that would do night time raids on suspected houses every night we might be able to make some kind of difference.

But we don't really have any of this/to little.

arybvtcw0eolkf

BrianD wrote: »

It would have no effect at all.

We had thesejoint army/Gardai checkpoints in the past. Didn't stop crime.

Its hard to stop crime when all you do is check a car's insurance, NCT & tax discs.

Not making light of it either, but when there was a loyalist threat to the south during the 80's we had a 'ring of steel' (as the media put it) around Dublin, and what happened - AGS checked car tax, probably paid for their sub!.

As regards the topic.

Well we've a lot of experience in disarming armed elements oversea's - from Lebanon to East Timor, The Balkans & Africa.

So yes I guess in the worse possible scenario it could work here, but there's not enough gangland murder's in Dalkey & Foxrock to make it politically viable

Jcarroll07

Maybe if we get as bad as Mexico. But some how i don't think that will happen.

discus

Lads, soldiers are not policemen and they shouldn't be utilised as such. It was tried on this island not too long ago, and didn't that just work out well(!)

Locust

Checking tax, nct and insurance are just road traffic stuff and is usually just an ice breaker to engaging with these people and getting their personal details and a great way to get criminals in court.

Criminals will of course bypass obvious checkpoints that why you need covert and less obvious units monitoring other routes or vehicles turning about at the same time. Overt & Covert working together. Its all about intelligence gathering, not engaging in armed conflict with these people. Armed units are there if things go pear shaped at a checkpoint.

I would be against soldiers on the street etc... but in relation to being armed or having armed cover, the old phrase rings out 'I'd rather have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.'

harmoniums

delta-boy wrote: »

I certainly wouldnt mind being stopped and asked any relevant info.

-Thanks!

I do.
It would be kabuki theater with no impact on crime other than to hassle and inconvenience ordinary decent people.

mcgarrett

If it happened it would be nothing more than window dressing on the part of the Govt. locust made some very good points there regarding the use of covert units in conjunction with intelligence gathering at checkpoints etc.. by uniformed units.
Most of these criminals can't do a simple thing like keep a car right and while checking documents may seem like a waste of time to the untrained they often prove to be valuable sources of info to the experienced.

johngalway

Absolutely not.

A more effective police force combined with more effective (not just more) laws is what's needed.