Attack in Hillview

dlofnep · 23-03-2011 9:07am

chelloveks wrote: »

On the other hand, maybe the best way to build up that self respect would be to tie them to the bullpost in Ballybricken and let people have a go at them as they walk by. Matbe have an assortment of toys on a rack to utilize for the sessions! If they can take a good hidin that would build up their self esteem nicely....and think of the fun the folks who have been victimized could have....like the French Revolution in Eire!!! I'd come over just to have a whack at em myself.

I'll go with my plan

dlofnep · 23-03-2011 9:08am

marlin vs wrote: »

Back to topic,anyone know how that gentleman is?

I heard he's stable, but won't be well for the rest of his life

marlin vs · 23-03-2011 11:45am

dlofnep wrote: »

I heard he's stable, but won't be well for the rest of his life

Sorry to hear that.

ziedth · 23-03-2011 11:49am

That is awful,

I glanced the front of the munster and I see a woman was attacked on Friday too. I didn't catch the estate but I'm sure its written on it. It honestly worries me to hear things like this going on.

Joey leBlanc · 23-03-2011 11:54am

Anyone searching for an appropriate response or course of action would
do well to watch the film "Looking for Eric" - outbully the bullies

insight_man · 23-03-2011 12:50pm

dlofnep wrote: »

Penalising them won't change them. We need to start focusing on changing people and how they feel about themselves. If people see themselves as lower-class and not worth much, they are going to act it. We need to start providing opportunities for them to educate themselves, to put them in a prime position for employment, and actively facilitate and encourage education.

I can tell you for alot of scumbags, they act like that because they feel there is no alternatives. They feel like society already looks down on them, so they forget about having self-respect.

It's a social issue, and needs to be tackled with a social mind. You can lock people up - but unless you rehabilitate them, it's really just a temporary solution. When they get out, they will be at it again, and trust me - cutting 10% of their dole won't change that.

Some scumbags should just go to jail to be punished, like those involved in this attack. But others, such as petty thieves, or drug abusers should be offered as much assistance as possible to get back on their feet and become a productive member of society.

It's not just as easy as punishing people. That won't change them.

Criminals and scumbags get plenty of chances to change if they want to long before they end up in jail. Warnings, suspended sentences etc. and there are loads of opportunities to get educated if they want it and be rehabilitated. Even in prison some of the education provided is top notch and fellas have come out with degrees, masters and Phd's and everything up to that.

The truth is some want to change and will do so and lots of others don't and won't. These are the people we need to get tough with the ones with multiple convictions. Look at the post a few days ago a fella in Limerick with 161 previous convictions. He doesen't deserve any chances.

3 or 4 strikes and your out is an option, taking on board your comment about giveing people a chance. After that the penalties should be long sentences and hard time. At this stage they.ve been given every opportunity and thrown it back at society.

Soociety needs to support the victims more and punish the criminals.

dlofnep · 23-03-2011 2:51pm

insight_man wrote: »

Criminals and scumbags get plenty of chances to change if they want to long before they end up in jail. Warnings, suspended sentences etc. and there are loads of opportunities to get educated if they want it and be rehabilitated. Even in prison some of the education provided is top notch and fellas have come out with degrees, masters and Phd's and everything up to that.

The truth is some want to change and will do so and lots of others don't and won't. These are the people we need to get tough with the ones with multiple convictions. Look at the post a few days ago a fella in Limerick with 161 previous convictions. He doesen't deserve any chances.

3 or 4 strikes and your out is an option, taking on board your comment about giveing people a chance. After that the penalties should be long sentences and hard time. At this stage they.ve been given every opportunity and thrown it back at society.

Soociety needs to support the victims more and punish the criminals.

You missed my point completely.

Professey Chin · 23-03-2011 3:06pm

Joey leBlanc wrote: »

Anyone searching for an appropriate response or course of action would
do well to watch the film "Looking for Eric" - outbully the bullies

Im thinking Harry Brown more :pac:

BlueBlaa · 23-03-2011 7:49pm

Its funny that I had my post removed because there were comments like "send the lads around" on it. seems like everyone even the mods are on the side of these scumbags.
But what can we do? lobby for better protection for taxpaying lawabiding citizens

seanybiker · 23-03-2011 8:26pm

BlueBlaa wrote: »

Its funny that I had my post removed because there were comments like "send the lads around" on it. seems like everyone even the mods are on the side of these scumbags.
But what can we do? lobby for better protection for taxpaying lawabiding citizens

I'd rather do what you said than give them a hug and tell them everything will be ok.
I know that's not what he meant but I don't agree with wasting time trying to change a scumbag around

dlofnep · 23-03-2011 8:55pm

seanybiker wrote: »

I know that's not what he meant but I don't agree with wasting time trying to change a scumbag around

Not all scumbags can be changed around. That's true. And some violent ones need to do serious prison time as punishment. In this case, I hope the bastard serves no less than 20 years for ruining this poor man's life.

What I'm talking about is guys who are borderline - who are active in petty crime, with the possibility is getting more involved in crime. These are the guys we have a chance to turn around and show them that there is alot more to life than stealing and acting the muppet. Show them that they can go back, get an education and make something of their life.

When I was 16-18, I was an absolute muppet. I completely messed up in school, got expelled and felt absolutely worthless as a person. I felt like I let my parents down. I remember some of my friend's parents looking down on me, as if I wasn't worthy to hang around with their sons. I was dabbling in drugs, drinking alot and acting like an eejit.

But I eventually grew self-respect and confidence, and went to college as a mature student. Became the first person in my entire extended family to get a degree, and made something of myself. So I know from experience what it's like to be borderline, and that sometimes all you need is someone to help you, have faith in you, and show you that there are other things in life to look forward to.

You've known me all of my life - so you know everything I'm saying is true.

seanybiker · 23-03-2011 9:06pm

Fooking mobile internet disconnecting when I ht post reply..crap. I used to hate having to go to school and you having the day off. Then I left meself so it wasn't all so bad lol. Fair play to ya though. Didn't know about the lads parents, gonna be giving all the evil eye now

O Riain · 23-03-2011 9:08pm

dlofnep wrote: »

Not all scumbags can be changed around. That's true. And some violent ones need to do serious prison time as punishment. In this case, I hope the bastard serves no less than 20 years for ruining this poor man's life.

What I'm talking about is guys who are borderline - who are active in petty crime, with the possibility is getting more involved in crime. These are the guys we have a chance to turn around and show them that there is alot more to life than stealing and acting the muppet. Show them that they can go back, get an education and make something of their life.

When I was 16-18, I was an absolute muppet. I completely messed up in school, got expelled and felt absolutely worthless as a person. I felt like I let my parents down. I remember some of my friend's parents looking down on me, as if I wasn't worthy to hang around with their sons. I was dabbling in drugs, drinking alot and acting like an eejit.

But I eventually grew self-respect and confidence, and went to college as a mature student. Became the first person in my entire extended family to get a degree, and made something of myself. So I know from experience what it's like to be borderline, and that sometimes all you need is someone to help you, have faith in you, and show you that there are other things in life to look forward to.

You've known me all of my life - so you know everything I'm saying is true.

See you were borderline, most of these lads are gone beyond. In my opinion the ONLY way we will ever eradicate this element of society, and one that I would see as acceptable is to remove kids from their parents at a young age, remember we are all born the same. Remove the kids before the parents influence can impact on the kids and raise these kids elsewhere, in one generation all the scumbags in ireland will have disappeared.

chelloveks · 23-03-2011 10:04pm

dlofnep wrote: »

Not all scumbags can be changed around. That's true. And some violent ones need to do serious prison time as punishment. In this case, I hope the bastard serves no less than 20 years for ruining this poor man's life.

What I'm talking about is guys who are borderline - who are active in petty crime, with the possibility is getting more involved in crime. These are the guys we have a chance to turn around and show them that there is alot more to life than stealing and acting the muppet. Show them that they can go back, get an education and make something of their life.

When I was 16-18, I was an absolute muppet. I completely messed up in school, got expelled and felt absolutely worthless as a person. I felt like I let my parents down. I remember some of my friend's parents looking down on me, as if I wasn't worthy to hang around with their sons. I was dabbling in drugs, drinking alot and acting like an eejit.

But I eventually grew self-respect and confidence, and went to college as a mature student. Became the first person in my entire extended family to get a degree, and made something of myself. So I know from experience what it's like to be borderline, and that sometimes all you need is someone to help you, have faith in you, and show you that there are other things in life to look forward to.

You've known me all of my life - so you know everything I'm saying is true.

Totally agree that those on the edge should be helped. I was talking about my opinion on what to do with the hard core scumbags who do physical harm to others or are repeat offenders doing robberies and such to support their extra curricular activities....somebody with 161 feckin arrests should be just banished from society.

The problem is that there is a whole army of bleedin heart liberals who want to save the world one lout at a time. What is needed is an opposing voice that stands up for the rights of the victims of these career criminals. People need to stand up and take the streets back...go and google Curtis Sliwa. He did it in NYC during the crack epidemic and turned himself and his wife into heros, celebrities, radio and TV stars and made a huge career out of it! He took a bunch of young guys, put red berets and jackets on them and had 'em walking around NYC's worst neighborhoods. All they did was report things to the cops, who ignored them at first until they had to deal with 'em when the media copped on to the story and rode with it.

You have to play within the rules of the game, but if you push the cops they will have to react within the rules!

dlofnep · 23-03-2011 10:49pm

chelloveks wrote: »

Totally agree that those on the edge should be helped. I was talking about my opinion on what to do with the hard core scumbags who do physical harm to others or are repeat offenders doing robberies and such to support their extra curricular activities....somebody with 161 feckin arrests should be just banished from society.

I agree with you. Not everyone can be saved, and anyone who commits that level of violence doesn't deserve to be saved either. I'm just pointing out that not all people who fall on the wrong side of the law should stay on there. It would be better to assist them where possible to turn their lives around, and make them contribute to society.

But trust me - I know exactly the type of people you are talking about. I was friends with one of them (Seanybiker will know who I'm referring to). I spent years trying to keep him away from trouble and drugs, only for him to end up stealing all of my little brother's money on holidays out in majorca and not leaving him with the price of a phone call to call my parents back in Ireland to tell them what happened.

It's little tossers like that can be locked up for life for all I care. But not everyone is like that, and some people who we might look at as scumbags, might have just loss their self-worth and can be shown that there is a better life.

seanybiker · 23-03-2011 11:11pm

He is a little fooker. Should be shot. There's no turning back for people like him at all.

insight_man · 23-03-2011 11:18pm

dlofnep wrote: »

You missed my point completely.

I don't understand how I missed your point completly. I took account of anyone who may get into trouble or just fell in with the wrong company when i suggested 3 or even 4 chances for them. These chances include education courses, job coaching and probably job placement in a role that suits the offender.

After that I said we need to get tough on them because they have rejected all help given to them. If thats not acceptable to you then tell all of us how many chances do you think is fair and what kind of support do you think criminals should get.

We have to draw the line somewhere and I've said 3 orr 4 chances. This is for non critical offences now not for rape, armed robbery and murder. Obviously you can't give these guys 3 or 4 chances at that level of crime.

BlueBlaa · 23-03-2011 11:29pm

chelloveks wrote: »

Totally agree that those on the edge should be helped. I was talking about my opinion on what to do with the hard core scumbags who do physical harm to others or are repeat offenders doing robberies and such to support their extra curricular activities....somebody with 161 feckin arrests should be just banished from society.

The problem is that there is a whole army of bleedin heart liberals who want to save the world one lout at a time. What is needed is an opposing voice that stands up for the rights of the victims of these career criminals. People need to stand up and take the streets back...go and google Curtis Sliwa. He did it in NYC during the crack epidemic and turned himself and his wife into heros, celebrities, radio and TV stars and made a huge career out of it! He took a bunch of young guys, put red berets and jackets on them and had 'em walking around NYC's worst neighborhoods. All they did was report things to the cops, who ignored them at first until they had to deal with 'em when the media copped on to the story and rode with it.

You have to play within the rules of the game, but if you push the cops they will have to react within the rules!

Thats true I know from experience that you simply have to go to the gardai and not budge until someone actual listens just keep asking to be heard and for it to be escalated don't be fobbed off.
I wonder how good the media in Ireland is to help raise awareness. Limerick was in the paper everyday, and they still haven't rolled up all the gangs there.

chelloveks · 24-03-2011 12:56am

Even the most liberal fruits and nuts in the whole world...CALIFORNIANS!!...voted in a 3 strike law. If a criminal is CONVICTED of 3 felonies (as opposed to lesser misdemeanors) they automatically get life in jail. So, the result....LOTS of Prisons.....lots of construction.....lots of prison guards...it all equals jobs and gets rid of scumbaags.

Tell Enda you guys found a way out of recession AND a way to take back safe streets...bet he'll take credit for it too!!!!

And I was no saint as a teenager either dlofnep....did load of things that could have put me away for a bit of a vacation, but just never got nicked. I was lucky! Figured out it was better to take "things" in moderation and stay in school and make money instead of take money. I completely understand that everyone who fooks up isn't doomed to damnation forever but some of these bstrds should be tied to the bullpost and handled by their victims! I'm a right little middle class cnut myself now but I would pull the trigger on these jerks in a heartbeat! LMAO

dlofnep · 24-03-2011 1:04am

seanybiker wrote: »

He is a little fooker. Should be shot. There's no turning back for people like him at all.

He got a hiding 2 weeks ago from what I heard

insight_man · 24-03-2011 1:15am

dlofnep wrote: »

He got a hiding 2 weeks ago from what I heard

If he did it didn't teach him anything. Maybe 10 years in jail with no early release will have more effect. At least innocent people will be safer.

seanybiker · 24-03-2011 1:17am

dlofnep wrote: »

He got a hiding 2 weeks ago from what I heard

That's great news. Little prick wont learn anyways.

insight_man · 24-03-2011 1:18am

chelloveks wrote: »

Even the most liberal fruits and nuts in the whole world...CALIFORNIANS!!...voted in a 3 strike law. If a criminal is CONVICTED of 3 felonies (as opposed to lesser misdemeanors) they automatically get life in jail. So, the result....LOTS of Prisons.....lots of construction.....lots of prison guards...it all equals jobs and gets rid of scumbaags.

Tell Enda you guys found a way out of recession AND a way to take back safe streets...bet he'll take credit for it too!!!!

And I was no saint as a teenager either dlofnep....did load of things that could have put me away for a bit of a vacation, but just never got nicked. I was lucky! Figured out it was better to take "things" in moderation and stay in school and make money instead of take money. I completely understand that everyone who fooks up isn't doomed to damnation forever but some of these bstrds should be tied to the bullpost and handled by their victims! I'm a right little middle class cnut myself now but I would pull the trigger on these jerks in a heartbeat! LMAO

Good stuff I agree with more prisons, longer sentences and plenty of work for builders and prison guards.

Too many lilly white liberals around prepared to make endless excuses for these scumbags. Who's there for the victims. from what I hear very few people or supports from the state.

The system is all wrong here.

dlofnep · 24-03-2011 1:20am

insight_man wrote: »

If he did it didn't teach him anything. Maybe 10 years in jail with no early release will have more effect. At least innocent people will be safer.

Different guy

insight_man · 24-03-2011 1:21am

dlofnep wrote: »

He got a hiding 2 weeks ago from what I heard

I asked earlier how did I totally miss your point in one of your posts. Waiting to hear how many chances you think a scumbag should get before some of the measures I suggested come into effect.

Sully · 24-03-2011 1:32am

BlueBlaa wrote: »

Its funny that I had my post removed because there were comments like "send the lads around" on it. seems like everyone even the mods are on the side of these scumbags.
But what can we do? lobby for better protection for taxpaying lawabiding citizens

Oh hi. First time looking at this thread. So no clue what your on about.

Please, don't paint us all with the same brush. Thanks.

PatrickD32 · 24-03-2011 1:33am

SICKENING, also on castle street night before 10 cowards stabbed a fella with his lack. and punched him.

Its known around WD who was the victim on Saturday night and who it was!

I could easily name out the names, its common knowledge, and also no suprise!

dlofnep · 24-03-2011 1:35am

insight_man wrote: »

I asked earlier how did I totally miss your point in one of your posts. Waiting to hear how many chances you think a scumbag should get before some of the measures I suggested come into effect.

It depends on what they do.

It's all about what you consider is right? For serious crime - prison is a punishment and supposedly a deterrent. But the majority of criminals who go to prison will return to it. So that tells me that it does work - all it does is keep them off the streets until they are released.

If someone is routinely engaged in petty crime, I think we should do everything to try and help them. We need new ways of thinking on this. Perhaps an educational facility for criminals. Break away from the prison environment, help them build back their confidence, their self-worth, their self-respect. Bring them back to society. Get them into good jobs. I'm not talking meat factories.. We need to really inspire them and show them the potentials that exist out there for them. IT research, engineering, etc..

Violent criminals need to be locked up because they are a danger to society. I don't disagree with you on this at all. I just think we can break down different levels of crime, and we can help certain criminals who are driven by different intentions.

Imagine you're a guy with a criminal record, no self worth and find it impossible to get a job because of it. You hang out with a bad crowd, and are constantly lured into crime because of it. This isn't an easy circle to escape from - so it's not just something you can put a label on without understanding the mindset of the criminal. Why do they do it? How can we change their mindset?

We can't help everyone, but we can try to start understanding people more.

PatrickD32 · 24-03-2011 1:50am

AdMMM wrote: »

I'd have trouble using my fists in a fight, let alone a knife. Very worrying that people carry knives seemingly for everyday life.

Cowards!

AdMMM wrote: »

I'd have trouble using my fists in a fight, let alone a knife. Very worrying that people carry knives seemingly for everyday life.

But thats why they carry!

nkay1985 wrote: »

Can't get my head around it though. If they wanted to rob a car, why choose Chestnut Green?

It was his wheels they wanted!

dlofnep wrote: »

I tell you one thing - if someone went at my car, I'd be quick to take a hurley to their head. No mistake about it.

Fact!

insight_man wrote: »

I suggest boards members lobby the new minister for justice for changes in the law like we're talking about. New brush sweeps clean and all that.

Lets try get something done about it..FG always saw themselves as the law and order party so lets put it up to them from the start.

Internet is a powerful tool as seen with Obama's election.

Is anyone up for this or what.

If you really want to, I will help, 100%

Also i remember 5yrs ago, coming out of rubsy with my ex and her best friend, lads from larchaville dragged em up lane by back of TEN, they tryin tkae clothes off, 1 of them knocked 1 d grls out outside masons, clean out on road, she wudnt wake up, i cracked bottle over 1s head, theres was 5 lads, 1 took out knife, i grabed it, slit me middle right finger, i ****ed it on roof abbove, i went over guards and they were looking at this all for at least 6 r 7 mins, told me id be arrested for distrubing peace!

Only reason could name the main fella hit one the girls is because some young 1 knew him from estate! I rem getn kicks of them , jumpin up, hittin a few in face, and drppin back to ground, most i could of doen up that back lane, We were told the next day he had 56 previous convictions!

But the attitude of the guards standing right on junction was appaling, seen it all hapen, taxis were out looking at 1st grl knocked out, and guards stnading away and when i tried make report that night i was told im the 1 disturbign peace by asking them do something.

I love Ireland but jesus christ i hate our system!

insight_man wrote: »

I asked earlier how did I totally miss your point in one of your posts. Waiting to hear how many chances you think a scumbag should get before some of the measures I suggested come into effect.

I know names of people involved and to be honest, they deserve be locked up.

I know as some were involVed in assaults of people I know.
And ive heard names over and over for same thing, i tar no person with same brush!

I'm no saint when it comes to the law etc but some people don't deserve to be walkin inflicting such oain on people Week in Week out!

Ya can be called a scumbag for taking drugs, dealing, whatever,
But that all nothing combared to bein actual scum, just like in this case, cowardly scum, who keep think its ok repeat each act because absolutely nothing is happening to them for it. This isnt 1st time these very people have been involved in such a thing! thats a FACT. How many last chances do people wnat to give scum?

insight_man · 24-03-2011 11:58pm

dlofnep wrote: »

It depends on what they do.

It's all about what you consider is right? For serious crime - prison is a punishment and supposedly a deterrent. But the majority of criminals who go to prison will return to it. So that tells me that it does work - all it does is keep them off the streets until they are released.

If someone is routinely engaged in petty crime, I think we should do everything to try and help them. We need new ways of thinking on this. Perhaps an educational facility for criminals. Break away from the prison environment, help them build back their confidence, their self-worth, their self-respect. Bring them back to society. Get them into good jobs. I'm not talking meat factories.. We need to really inspire them and show them the potentials that exist out there for them. IT research, engineering, etc..

Violent criminals need to be locked up because they are a danger to society. I don't disagree with you on this at all. I just think we can break down different levels of crime, and we can help certain criminals who are driven by different intentions.

Imagine you're a guy with a criminal record, no self worth and find it impossible to get a job because of it. You hang out with a bad crowd, and are constantly lured into crime because of it. This isn't an easy circle to escape from - so it's not just something you can put a label on without understanding the mindset of the criminal. Why do they do it? How can we change their mindset?

We can't help everyone, but we can try to start understanding people more.

I'm all for helping people who want to be helped. 3 or 4 chances is plenty as far as I'm concerned. As for putting criminals inot 'good' jobs as you put it. There are 460K unemployed in Ireland today and most would love a 'good' job or any job. I'd say most are not scum or criminals.

But point accepted society can help and does help in the way you suggested. It works for some and not for others. Its the ones it doesen't work for those who continually commit crime that need to be locked up for long long sentences.

I agree that these people get out offend and get jailed again but at least when they are jailed the rest of society is a bit safer.

So I think we're saying the same thing.

Attack in Hillview

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