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council seat

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    #62
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,584 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    HarryPotter41 wrote: »
    Unfortunately power corrupts, it happened the Tories in England and then in turn happened the Labour Party. It happens in any party that is in power too long, the entitlement is bred by longevity. The same would happen FG and Labour if they win three elections on the trot.

    Fianna Fail were not helped by the fact that Haughey and Ahern were at the helm of the party for most of the last 30 years. Reynolds was straightforward and Cowen, while bumbling his way through the job, was not twisted and corrupt like the other two. An almost unbroken run by two corrupt leaders who ran the party with an iron fist helped breed the type of attitude that became deep seated within a lot of them. Look at how many of them ran for the hills as the election came nearer, they were not public servants or even servants of Fianna Fail, they were servants of themselves. Those are the kind of things that angered FF voters to switch their votes in protest.

    I wouldn't write the party off just yet. The FF people on the ground are not of that ilk, the grassroots is still the party of Lemass and Lynch. The people on the ground are generally known within their communities as workers for their communities and a return to that from the entire party top to bottom is what can rebuild the trust of people. That will take time however because even FF's own voters have to be won back before anyone else can be persuaded to look at the party as a viable alternative. Even those friends I have actively involved in Fine Gael are firmly convinced the party will rebuild.

    Whatever peoples opinions of DC, he is honest and hardworking, and probably without him being the type of politician he is I would have walked away by now. But I see the people who were dragging this country and FF down are gone, either by choice or with some help from the electorate, so it gives me a renewed belief that we can go back to helping people with the issues they face. Thats public service and any politicians of any party, particularly Fianna Fail, who don't want to do that can find some other profession to persue.


    Rant over
    I am sure the party will rebuild - there are some stormy waters ahead for FG and Labour no doubt and FF have already started to "rebrand" themselves - people also tend to have very short memories.
    It took FF voters a long time to realise that Bertie and Haughey and indeed those that left the sinking ship this time out to realise they were only in it for themselves (15 odd years or more by the looks of it)


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    #63
    HarryPotter41
    Registered Users Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    kippy wrote: »
    I am sure the party will rebuild - there are some stormy waters ahead for FG and Labour no doubt and FF have already started to "rebrand" themselves - people also tend to have very short memories.
    It took FF voters a long time to realise that Bertie and Haughey and indeed those that left the sinking ship this time out to realise they were only in it for themselves (15 odd years or more by the looks of it)


    Wouldn't agree with you, I was young in the 80's but railed continually against Haughey and was disappointed when each heave failed and caused the last of decent FF politicians of that era to leave the party. I and others railed against Ahern in the last few years of his "reign" ( and reign it was ), even up to the point of being insulted in HQ by a senior party elder.

    Its not a rebrand, to me its a return to what the party was founded for.


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    #64
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,584 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    HarryPotter41 wrote: »
    Wouldn't agree with you, I was young in the 80's but railed continually against Haughey and was disappointed when each heave failed and caused the last of decent FF politicians of that era to leave the party. I and others railed against Ahern in the last few years of his "reign" ( and reign it was ), even up to the point of being insulted in HQ by a senior party elder.

    Its not a rebrand, to me its a return to what the party was founded for.

    You seem to be one of the minority by the looks of it.

    It definitely a re brand and disassociation with what has happened in the past few decades.
    To you, it is an attempted return to its original core values and roots and I accept that.


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    #65
    finisklin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭finisklin


    HarryPotter41 wrote: »
    Unfortunately power corrupts, it happened the Tories in England and then in turn happened the Labour Party. It happens in any party that is in power too long, the entitlement is bred by longevity. The same would happen FG and Labour if they win three elections on the trot.

    Fianna Fail were not helped by the fact that Haughey and Ahern were at the helm of the party for most of the last 30 years. Reynolds was straightforward and Cowen, while bumbling his way through the job, was not twisted and corrupt like the other two. An almost unbroken run by two corrupt leaders who ran the party with an iron fist helped breed the type of attitude that became deep seated within a lot of them. Look at how many of them ran for the hills as the election came nearer, they were not public servants or even servants of Fianna Fail, they were servants of themselves. Those are the kind of things that angered FF voters to switch their votes in protest.

    I wouldn't write the party off just yet. The FF people on the ground are not of that ilk, the grassroots is still the party of Lemass and Lynch. The people on the ground are generally known within their communities as workers for their communities and a return to that from the entire party top to bottom is what can rebuild the trust of people. That will take time however because even FF's own voters have to be won back before anyone else can be persuaded to look at the party as a viable alternative. Even those friends I have actively involved in Fine Gael are firmly convinced the party will rebuild.

    Whatever peoples opinions of DC, he is honest and hardworking, and probably without him being the type of politician he is I would have walked away by now. But I see the people who were dragging this country and FF down are gone, either by choice or with some help from the electorate, so it gives me a renewed belief that we can go back to helping people with the issues they face. Thats public service and any politicians of any party, particularly Fianna Fail, who don't want to do that can find some other profession to persue.


    Rant over

    Harry, I definitely think Inda's positive energy and optimism is rubbing off on you. Long may it continue.......:p


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    #66
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,803 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    HarryPotter41 wrote: »
    So you would suggest that the tax breaks for those in negative equity ( which most likely would be a damn sight more people than those looking at being first time buyers ) should be done away with too?
    I'm not convinced there's a compelling argument for such tax breaks, and I'm pretty certain the country can't afford them.
    I have also serious issues on the idea of universal health insurance, particularly around cost, again on how it affects those on lower incomes and what the exact premium would be because I do not see how it can be run on the kind of premiums that were bandied about.
    I'll adopt a wait-and-see stance on that one. I'm not terribly impressed with the blanket attitude of "it can't work", because it is working in the Netherlands and elsewhere. One thing is for certain: what we have is deeply, horribly broken. Mary Harney may believe that "there's nothing wrong with the HSE" (pretty sure that's an exact quote), but I think it's a lonely view.
    I also have issue with free GP visits for everyone. Anyone who can afford to pay for any service should do so. This is just following the same mistakes made by FF in offering medical cards to everyone over 70 regardless of income.
    I dunno. Free GP care works in the UK and elsewhere. There's a compelling case to be made for the argument that anyone who can afford to pay for it will already be doing so through higher taxes - and don't buy into the hype, higher-income earners (with a tiny handful of high-profile exceptions) pay more than their share of taxes here.


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    #67
    HarryPotter41
    Registered Users Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    I'm not convinced there's a compelling argument for such tax breaks, and I'm pretty certain the country can't afford them. I'll adopt a wait-and-see stance on that one. I'm not terribly impressed with the blanket attitude of "it can't work", because it is working in the Netherlands and elsewhere. One thing is for certain: what we have is deeply, horribly broken. Mary Harney may believe that "there's nothing wrong with the HSE" (pretty sure that's an exact quote), but I think it's a lonely view. I dunno. Free GP care works in the UK and elsewhere. There's a compelling case to be made for the argument that anyone who can afford to pay for it will already be doing so through higher taxes - and don't buy into the hype, higher-income earners (with a tiny handful of high-profile exceptions) pay more than their share of taxes here.


    I would agree with you on possibly getting rid of all tax breaks like that. Now though, they are seen as a way of moving housing stock as well as getting people on the property ladder.

    There has also been comment that it is not working that well in the Netherlands. I didn't say it can't work, I said I have issues with it. The costings seem a bit low as regards premiums for keeping a health care system going. The UK are looking at their own health system due to its ever burgeoning costs so is that a good example at the moment on where free GP care works. I would also be concerned that people will be going to the doctor with relatively minor complaints because they can visit the GP for nothing. Would rather see a higher threshold on the medical card for people with young families who find it difficult to pay doctors and medical bills than free GP visits for everyone.

    I agree with you the HSE is broken, the no one willing to take the blame Punch and Judy show between Harney and Drumm was frustrating. Just worry this is not the right fix.

    And no where have I ever said I bought into any suggestion that the well off don't already pay plenty of tax.


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    #68
    HarryPotter41
    Registered Users Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    finisklin wrote: »
    Harry, I definitely think Inda's positive energy and optimism is rubbing off on you. Long may it continue.......:p


    I was full of this positive energy and optimism long before Enda came along, sadly I expect him to be shafted by the Dublin brigade within the first 12 months. If my optimism disappears then, you can tell me you were right. :D


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    #69
    C-J
    Closed Accounts Posts: 934 ✭✭✭C-J


    For a start this thread has gone COMPLETELY off topic, i thought it'd be to congratulate a bonniconlon man who deserves his seat. FF will always be remembered by my generation (the generation who now have been effectively forced out of this country) as corrupt lying men and women of a certain age who were more interested in lining their own pockets than ensuring that those at the top didn't screw this country over. Who knows what the future holds but bertie and haughey did enough damage to the ff party between them to last generations, i only hope that my daughter and the children of Ireland don't have to endure what is going on at the moment.


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