Peashooting

MortgageMan

Sparks you asked me direct questions about that comp, I told you at that time that I didn't want to highlight it, but you kept on with the questions and the prodding.

Dont blame me that you didn't like the answer to your questions.

Sparks

Arcto wrote: »

Wait...what?
Actual question: This is a thing?

Actual answer: Yeah, it's a thing. I only know one person who does it in Ireland though, and it's happy and free far from the world of Irish Shooting Administration Hell

Also, everyone needs to stop bickering like children. The sun is shining and there's no clouds about. Shouldn't you all be out shooting? I've got my gear in the boot of the car. 2.5 hours and I'm outta work to go show some love to the local bunny population

I've plans to introduce a few processed trees to some processed lead tonight myself.

Doesn't mean I can't respond when people who should know better say nasty things about my sport. If it was ICABS saying them, I'd be told off if I didn't respond.

Sparks

MortgageMan wrote: »

Sparks you asked me direct questions about that comp, I told you at that time that I didn't want to highlight it, but you kept on with the questions and the prodding.
Dont blame me that you didn't like the answer to your questions.

I don't know if I like the answers or not MM, because I'm still waiting for them. Nobody's said if it was even a rifle or a pistol match yet, you can't remember what range it was on or what year it was in or who was running it -- but that didn't stop you from badmouthing the entire sport based on a recollection that barely deserves the word "memory".

Don't feel too surprised if that sort of thing gets a response.

MortgageMan

Sparks I rememeber everything about the match, but because I don't want to bad mouth a club or discipline that may have changed in the interim period I do not want to post all the info.

I stopped posting here almost two years ago and just thought that I would have a look around again. WOW what a surprise I got, how did all this start ? does this happen here all the time ? or was I just unlucky to come back on a bad day ?

If this is what goes on all the time I seriously worry for the sanity of all involved, it must be very stressful !

Bananaman

Sparks wrote: »

I don't know your sport's rules as well as I know my own B'man, but if there isn't a minimum trigger weight in there, I'd be surprised.

I don't have a different sport to you - I do target shooting - so do you.

All disciplines have rules - if I see anyone who is doing something which will mean they will be in breach of the rules I let them know.

To date I only had a centrefire pistol whose trigger has over 2kg trigger pull.
I never tested it but that's what it came out of the factory with.

The rimfire pistol - has a trigger from 1.25-2.25kg out of the factory so I should be safe for most things.

Once a trigger is safe I'm not too bothered with the specifics - but that's just me - if an RO asks for a test - then we do a test.

Sparks wrote: »

You don't need wierd flat shoes to shoot ISSF pistol.

I never said you did - I said it was one of the ways in which these guys were attempted to be disqualified.

Sparks wrote: »

No, this started as someone slinging mud and being called on it. And you seem to be trying to continue that.

...

You've had an open invite to NTSA matches for years now B'man, we've never seen you shoot.

I've not had an opportunity to shoot an ISSF Pistol match yet - I intend to though - 'my sport' takes up a lot of time already - Clays, BR Rifle, GRCF Rifle, GRSB Rifle, CF Pistol, SB Pistol, IPSC - running the odd match, attending the odd meeting, teaching the odd safety course, ref'ing the odd fight.

Work tends to get in the way a bit and the rest of life too.

Don't worry, though, I'll get to ISSF Pistol in due course

Sparks wrote: »

So do we sling mud at you now, or wait till later?

Sling away - not why I, or anyone else, is here - but it it shells your pea :-)

B'Man

Sparks

MortgageMan wrote: »

Sparks I rememeber everything about the match, but because I don't want to bad mouth a club or discipline that may have changed in the interim period I do not want to post all the info.

So you just bad-mouth the discipline without any of the details so that discipline looks bad to anyone reading and noone in the discipline can defend it because you've made no details of your experience available.

I stopped posting here almost two years ago and just thought that I would have a look around again. WOW what a surprise I got, how did all this start ? does this happen here all the time ? or was I just unlucky to come back on a bad day ?

You just came back on a bad day, 'cos this guy MorgageMan was picking a scrap and then complaining about the scrapping being all unfair 'cos it didn't just accept what he said.

Arcto

Yeah you just came back on a bad day. This is the first batch of sillyness ive seen on the shooting forum since I started coming last September/October.

Actual answer: Yeah, it's a thing. I only know one person who does it in Ireland though, and it's happy and free far from the world of Irish Shooting Administration Hell

Each to their own I guess I play paintball and Airsoft...and lots of people think they are silly so I cant judge! hehe.

Sparks

Bananaman wrote: »

I don't have a different sport to you - I do target shooting - so do you.

You no more have the same sport that I do than Tiger Woods has the same sport as Ronan O'Gara does.
We both use firearms in target shooting; but that's like saying that you use a ball outdoors. Only the Irish Sports Council ever thought we should be all lumped into one place and that was because of laziness.

To date I only had a centrefire pistol whose trigger has over 2kg trigger pull.
I never tested it but that's what it came out of the factory with.
The rimfire pistol - has a trigger from 1.25-2.25kg out of the factory so I should be safe for most things.
Once a trigger is safe I'm not too bothered with the specifics - but that's just me - if an RO asks for a test - then we do a test.

It's not about safety. It's about how much force you have to use to shoot the pistol - if one person has to use 500g and the other 50g, then it's not a fair competition.
It might matter less if you shoot two-handed, but that's another difference between our sports.

I never said you did - I said it was one of the ways in which these guys were attempted to be disqualified.

These guys at that match you weren't at, which might or might not be the match that RRPC was talking about, which might or might not be the match that MM is hinting at, shot on a range noone's identified, run by people nobody's yet mentioned, with firearms that might have been pistols, but could have been rifles, either three or four or five or six years ago -- but which definitely shows that ISSF pistol doesn't play fair.

Any inaccuracies in that summary?

MortgageMan

Sparks this has nothing to Do with "THAT COMP", I have moved on and as I said almost forgotten about it until you wanted to dredge it up, sometimes it is best to let things lie.

But your post about shooting sports not being the same is exactly what I am getting at. You sound like you are saying you sport is the best and others should defer to you ? am I wrong here ?

My whole point is about shooters not sticking together and working for the greater good, your whole point is to turn any comments made about your sport as a percieved slight, and the need for you to defend it to the end !

Lighten up, take some constructive critism sometimes, we all need it ! no one should believe they are above others all the time.

Sparks

MortgageMan wrote: »

Sparks this has nothing to Do with "THAT COMP", I have moved on and as I said almost forgotten about it until you wanted to dredge it up, sometimes it is best to let things lie.

So you'd moved on....
...but you came back to boards after two years away and the first day you're back, you post up about this mystery competition, badmouthing a whole discipline in the process?

But your post about shooting sports not being the same is exactly what I am getting at. You sound like you are saying you sport is the best and others should defer to you ? am I wrong here ?

I swear, I could say fish and you'd think I was talking about bicycles.
Yes, you're wrong here.

My whole point is about shooters not sticking together and working for the greater good, your whole point is to turn any comments made about your sport as a percieved slight, and the need for you to defend it to the end !

Then your point is bull****.
First of all, shooters don't need to be in the same sport to stick together. The FCP shooters panel is proof of that. They just need to agree to work together. If they don't agree to that, if they don't follow their own rules, then the whole thing goes to crap and it wouldn't matter if they were all in the same sport or not. And we have seen more than enough in the way of proof of that over the years. Ask the NRAI and the LRRAI. Ask the ICPSA and the LCPSA. Ask the NARGC and the game clubs no longer in the NARGC. We've more splits and fights in shooting than we can count, all caused by a few people who decided the rules didn't apply to them but did apply to everyone else.

And second, if I slagged off your sport, you'd defend it to the hilt. Don't go questioning me because I do the same. We'd both do it if someone else did it to our sports - that's why everyone was pissed off at things like the Prime Time hatchet job on handguns from a few years back, and at Deasy's comments in the press, and ICABS's continual stupidity.

Lighten up, take some constructive critism sometimes, we all need it !

I'd love some.
Thing is, that's not what you're giving here. Constructive criticism is where you point out a flaw so it can be fixed; but you're just badmouthing a sport. If you want to give constructive criticism, learn the difference between it and mudslinging, because right now, if you want to give constructive criticism, you're failing badly.

Bananaman

Sparks wrote: »

You no more have the same sport that I do than Tiger Woods has the same sport as Ronan O'Gara does.
We both use firearms in target shooting; but that's like saying that you use a ball outdoors. Only the Irish Sports Council ever thought we should be all lumped into one place and that was because of laziness.

That statement concerns me.

The only difference between what I shoot and what you shoot (rimfire pistol wise at least) is the rules of the discipline.

The Sports Councils only dealing with the SSAI was the correct approach - in my humble opinion - just that those running the SSAI made a bollix of it - the inevitable split happened and we are back to square one.

That way, at least, we did have an opportunity for all target shooting to be treated as one community - by those elected to represent it.

Now we have the FCP - where the select few were chosen to represent all shooting - where the noisy ones are left out - because they are noisy - where people that represent nobody are allowed to claim to represent people - against their wishes - and plenty of people are not represented.

It is the very sentiment that you expressed above that has perpetuated this.

All shooting is seen as the same - to be gotten rid of - the sooner all shooting accepts that and tries to change it - as one sport - the sooner it will change - until then it will be whittled down to the stage where there are only a couple of disciplines left - who, of course, will feel they are safe, as they were "chosen".

But then everyones feels they are safe until the hammer falls.

B'Man

Sparks

Bananaman wrote: »

That statement concerns me.
The only difference between what I shoot and what you shoot (rimfire pistol wise at least) is the rules of the discipline.

And the equipment.
And the targets.
And the range over which we shoot.

There's fewer differences between GAA and soccer than there is between shooting sports B'man.

The Sports Councils only dealing with the SSAI was the correct approach - in my humble opinion - just that those running the SSAI made a bollix of it - the inevitable split happened and we are back to square one.

Actually, the ISC made the bollix of it in the first place because it always dealt with two shooting bodies - the ICPSA and the NRPAI (and later the SSAI). They didn't have any policy in mind there other than to keep the number of people they spoke to to a minimum, which ignored the point that we have different sports. (and ignored the point that they were talking to some bodies - like the Irish Pony Club - twice, through two different umbrella groups).

That way, at least, we did have an opportunity for all target shooting to be treated as one community - by those elected to represent it.

That's what the FCP shooting panel is for...

Now we have the FCP - where the select few were chosen to represent all shooting - where the noisy ones are left out - because they are noisy - where people that represent nobody are allowed to claim to represent people - against their wishes - and plenty of people are not represented.

That's a straight lie.

You know enough about the FCP and its history to know that what you just wrote is false.

The only body claiming a lack of representation on the FCP is the NASRPC. That's the same body that wanted to have a veto over all pistol licences in the state, and was pushing for that at a time when everyone else was trying to stop all pistols being banned. The spokesperson for the NASRPC is the same person who, when he wasn't voted in to represent the SSAI on the FCP, spent months trying to scupper the entire show, purely out of sour grapes. The NASRPC's ex-chairman sits on the FCP but the NASRPC won't talk to him, and the NASRPC has been represented directly to the FCP by the SSAI and have complained about being given too much representation as recently as last October. And we both know that because we were sitting not ten feet apart in the room at the time and I still have the audio recording of that meeting.

So my question to you is this B'man - why are you backing a group that is trying to destroy the only formal avenue we have to talk to the DoJ, a group that wanted your Glock banned outright and everyone else to go through an apprenticeship with them to go on a waiting list for a permanently capped pool of about 100 pistol licences, paying for mandatory NASRPC training and courses and exams in the process, and which was happily suggesting to the Minister that he introduce far more stringent conditions on licences than any he'd thought up on his own?

Bananaman

Sparks wrote: »

So my question to you is this B'man - why are you backing a group that is trying to destroy the only formal avenue we have to talk to the DoJ, a group that wanted your Glock banned outright and everyone else to go through an apprenticeship with them to go on a waiting list for a permanently capped pool of about 100 pistol licences, paying for mandatory NASRPC training and courses and exams in the process, and which was happily suggesting to the Minister that he introduce far more stringent conditions on licences than any he'd thought up on his own?

Mostly because I know all of that is a load of c0ck.

Also because I know it is being run properly - for the benefit of it's members, it's clubs and their members and all of our sports.

Also because I know it does not discriminate against any shooting sports, indeed it actively seeks to do what it can to promote all the shooting sports.

Also because I know it is actively supporting the development of the shooting sports.

Also because I am the NASRPC, the same as every member of every affiliated club is the NASRPC - and before you say that is naive -you are wrong.

Also because I do not give a toss what happened a few years ago - I did then - I wanted changes - they happened - I moved on.

But, as I said earlier, mostly, because I know all of that is a load of c0ck.

B'man

Tackleberrywho

Is this really the 5th Page of a Thread on PEASHOOTING??

Must be a slow news week?

Nobody seems to wonder will Howa, Nightforce, Sony/Carl Zeiss and Toyota Hilux 4x4's could become rare as hens teeth??


Personally I am more concerned will the Quake in Japan affect the whole world economy to the extent that PEASHOOTING will not even be a topic of idle conversation..................

Vegeta

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Is this really the 5th Page of a Thread on PEASHOOTING??

Must be a slow news week?

Nobody seems to wonder will Howa, Nightforce, Sony/Carl Zeiss and Toyota Hilux 4x4's could become rare as hens teeth??


Personally I am more concerned will the Quake in Japan affect the whole world economy to the extent that PEASHOOTING will not even be a topic of idle conversation..................

Are you trying to drag a thread off topic on purpose??

Please don't

MortgageMan

Sparks that document, thankfully was rejected by Justice and happened when NASRPC was a different group, they have changed now, maybe its time you change too ? 10 years is a long time to work towards something and constantly fail ! maybe its time to let somebody else, new blood take over and you can retire and enjoy the shooting that you want without the headaches of dealing with all this ?

Just my two cents worth ! shooting has changed and maybe you need to change

I know that I have changed over the last few years and so has the country, will you consider changing ?

Now I am definately going, see you again in two years.

Sparks

MortgageMan wrote: »

Sparks that document, thankfully was rejected by Justice and happened when NASRPC was a different group, they have changed now, maybe its time you change too ?

How have they changed? The men who signed that document are still running the organisation.

10 years is a long time to work towards something and constantly fail!

It would be. If we had. But we didn't, unless you set the bar for success at a level where we'd have to pull off a coup d'etat to hit it.

maybe its time to let somebody else, new blood take over and you can retire and enjoy the shooting that you want without the headaches of dealing with all this ?

I did, almost two years ago. I help out from time to time, but I don't actively sit on committees anymore. Ten years of trying only to see people who decried us as idiots go and scupper large bodies of work in a dramatically stupid fashion was enough for me, at least for now.

Sparks

Bananaman wrote: »

Mostly because I know all of that is a load of c0ck.

The documented proof is up in black and white on this board and others.

Also because I know it is being run properly - for the benefit of it's members, it's clubs and their members and all of our sports.

Really?
You'll swear to that?

Also because I know it does not discriminate against any shooting sports, indeed it actively seeks to do what it can to promote all the shooting sports.

Really?
Again, you'll swear to that?
Think before you answer.

Also because I do not give a toss what happened a few years ago - I did then - I wanted changes - they happened - I moved on.

You don't give a toss about what happened years ago, but you've argued for pages about a mystery match from years ago in order to damage another sport.
Hmmm.

But, as I said earlier, mostly, because I know all of that is a load of c0ck.

Didn't read the document, eh?

patsat

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Is this really the 5th Page of a Thread on PEASHOOTING??

Must be a slow news week?

Nobody seems to wonder will Howa, Nightforce, Sony/Carl Zeiss and Toyota Hilux 4x4's could become rare as hens teeth??


Personally I am more concerned will the Quake in Japan affect the whole world economy to the extent that PEASHOOTING will not even be a topic of idle conversation..................

Well I have my nightforce!

But back on topic....cmon now sparks I don't think this thread is suited for this forum!

I thought the thread about peashooting should be more at home here! :P

http://m.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=830

Bananaman

This is not a court of law - I am not required to swear to anything. Nor do I have any intention of doing so. In fact i am explicitly prevented from doing so by the fora charters where I am only entitled to give my opinion and may not make any statement on behalf of an organisation.

Are you sitting there in a robe and wig with your feed in a tepid footspa and a pot of babyoil sitting by the keyboard referring to yourself as m'lod in the third person?

Who do you think you are to make such requests?

B'Man

Sparks

Bananaman wrote: »

This is not a court of law - I am not required to swear to anything. Nor do I have any intention of doing so. In fact i am explicitly prevented from doing so by the fora charters where I am only entitled to give my opinion and may not make any statement on behalf of an organisation.

Are you sitting there in a robe and wig with your feed in a tepid footspa and a pot of babyoil sitting by the keyboard referring to yourself as m'lod in the third person?

Who do you think you are to make such requests?

B'Man

Check your PMs.

Bananaman

Sparks wrote: »

You don't give a toss about what happened years ago, but you've argued for pages about a mystery match from years ago in order to damage another sport.
Hmmm.

I did not .

I did not argue at all, never mind for pages.

I did not seek to damage any sport - I simply said that I spoke to people after the match in question who said they were made to feel most unwelcome.

I do believe it was an NTSA National Pistol Championship Finals in RRPC in 2006 but I may stand corrected.

Like I said I know that all of the people I spoke to have since shot in RRPC a number of times.

B'Man

PS: Not everyone is out to get you - or the NTSA - you don't need to defend every statement as it if it is an attack - it's not always - sometimes it's just the way it is.

Sparks

Bananaman wrote: »

I did not seek to damage any sport - I simply said that I spoke to people after the match in question who said they were made to feel most unwelcome.

What exactly is that, if not contradicting yourself in the same sentence? Besides which, you were far less restrained in your description at the time - saying someone was made to feel most unwelcome is bad enough, but you said that the organisers of the match tried to cheat these people out of earned prizes, tried to disqualify them on spurious grounds and made them feel like "the turd in the fruitbowl".

Don't piss on my back and tell me it's raining B'man.

rrpc

Bananaman wrote: »

I did not .

I did not argue at all, never mind for pages.

I did not seek to damage any sport - I simply said that I spoke to people after the match in question who said they were made to feel most unwelcome.

I do believe it was an NTSA National Pistol Championship Finals in RRPC in 2006 but I may stand corrected.

Like I said I know that all of the people I spoke to have since shot in RRPC a number of times.

Way to extend the slander B'Man

The first pistol competition held in Rathdrum was in May 2007 (other than those held in the 1960s).

Just to refresh everyone's memories because it seems years go by here in a couple of days; yesterday Mortgageman made an accusation of cheating against an unnamed South Wicklow club and its members and has since declined to either specify whether it was a rifle or pistol match or indeed which of three possible clubs it was - he was also a bit vague on when it happened.

I pointed out that there are quite significant rules applying to certain matches and also individual rules for individual disciplines. You helpfully intervened to ridicule those rules and MortgageMan has since decided that it's all in the past anyway and why were we dredging it all up again... :rolleyes:

Simply this: three clubs and their members are sitting here going WTF????

But fine, get out the big brush and sweep it under the carpet. I for one will be having a long hard think about this and what it represents for me and my club.

Bananaman

I feel the clouds forming.

I did not ridicule the rules - I did not think I slandered anyone.

i simply said that people were made to feel unwelcome and felt that they had to jump through a lot of hoops to qualify for the medals they won.

The fact that these rules were not brought up until the match was over in which case they were told it disqualified them from winning did nothing to help the situation.

As I also said, in fairness, cooler heads prevailed and they were allowed to join the NTSA, have their triggers tested, whatever they did with the shoes, etc. post match, and did, in fact, collect their medals.

B'Man

Sparks

That's not even in the same room as the tone you originally used with gusto B'man. You did ridicule the rules. You did slander unnamed people (though not an unnamed club and the group is small enough to raise worries) by saying they ran an unfair match. Claiming otherwise when your original posts are still up here is somewhat lacking in respect.

Bananaman

Thank you for applying your finely tuned ear to my tone.

B'Man

Sparks

"turd in a fruitbowl" isn't exactly something that needs a refined ear to spot B'man.

Bananaman

It's called a synonym - kinda like a fart in spacesuit etc.

B'Man

Sparks

Bananaman wrote: »

It's called a synonym - kinda like a fart in spacesuit etc.

You mean an idiom.
And an idiom can be an insult.
As that one was.