Job or Dole?

galwayrush

I feel very underpaid and very abused by the revenue people working, how i wish i could swap it for the dole.

JustAddWater

"STAY WORKING"

Yes!!! ...

fabbydabby

I was told to stay working as well but the calculator doesnt have a question where it asks you if you wake up every morning to the worst day of your life.

jackiebaron

Question should be "Dole or Dáil"

Rented Mule

Stay Working - You could get €372.40 per week on the dole with €91.38 in rent allowance for a total of €463.78

I'll put the effort in and get out of bed in the morning.

AckwelFoley

it underestimates the amount of tax i pay.

I believe this site.

im going to meet the guy in payroll tomorrow and kick him in the goolies for rippingme off based on information from that website

PrincessLola

You could get €100.00 per week on the dole

awwww yeeeeehh:cool:
100 euro? I'll be a millionaire (in 191.65 years)

Draco

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Anyone who has any experience of the dole, the awkward moment when someone asks what do you do, the black despairing days and the build up of bills while your friends go out while you miss social occasions, birthdays, stag nights and the constant stream of rejections letters doesn't need a website ( who incidently use the wrong calculations) to know the anwer to that question.

I'd be interested to know where you think my calculations are wrong?

The site is not meant to encourage people to actually go on the dole but was an exercise to in fact prove the Indo article wrong, which it unfortunately hasn't.

Draco

filmbuffboy wrote: »

the calculator on that site is majorly flawed. it automatically assumes everyone is entitled to rent allowance which couldnt be further from the truth.

If you look at my list of assumptions, you'll see I mention that if you are renting that I assume you end up getting full rent allowance, not that you definitely and always do get rent allowance.

The fact that I call them 'Hand waving assumptions' might be the clue that that I'm not claiming it's an absolute 100%-correct-in-all-situations-accurate calculator or that it is perfect. What I am saying is that in VERY straightforward cases where there are no tax or welfare complications it you might be better off staying on the dole than talking a job.

Cavehill Red

Draco wrote: »

If you look at my list of assumptions, you'll see I mention that if you are renting that I assume you end up getting full rent allowance, not that you definitely and always do get rent allowance.

The fact that I call them 'Hand waving assumptions' might be the clue that that I'm not claiming it's an absolute 100%-correct-in-all-situations-accurate calculator or that it is perfect. What I am saying is that in VERY straightforward cases where there are no tax or welfare complications it you might be better off staying on the dole than talking a job.

So basically, your definition of a 'handwaving assumption' is an assumption that people generally get way more on benefits than they actually do?
In the real world that's not called an assumption, it's called a deliberate and misleading error.

Draco

Cavehill Red wrote: »

So basically, your definition of a 'handwaving assumption' is an assumption that people generally get way more on benefits than they actually do?
In the real world that's not called an assumption, it's called a deliberate and misleading error.

No, it's not. I've clearly stated in my assumptions that it's based on getting full entitlements. I'm not hiding that fact and I also split the dole and rent allowance in the summary line to make clear they're two different things. I even included the table showing the max allowed rents that you can claim in each county to use as a guide.

I'm not professing that the calculator covers ever single situation possible or even a large subset - I'm presenting a very particular set of circumstances.

Cavehill Red

Draco wrote: »

No, it's not. I've clearly stated in my assumptions that it's based on getting full entitlements. I'm not hiding that fact and I also split the dole and rent allowance in the summary line to make clear they're two different things. I even included the table showing the max allowed rents that you can claim in each county to use as a guide.

I'm not professing that the calculator covers ever single situation possible or even a large subset - I'm presenting a very particular set of circumstances.

Then it's not 'job or dole', is it?
It's 'job or this very particular set of circumstances that I am misleadingly going to call dole.'

JONJO THE MISER

I know a few people who are on the dole and then play 1/2 nl poker to supplement there income.

Draco

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Then it's not 'job or dole', is it?
It's 'job or this very particular set of circumstances that I am misleadingly going to call dole.'

I do like that, but it doesn't roll off the tongue!

I disagree though - the €188 portion is jobseekers allowance which people call the dole. On top of that you can get €124.8 if you've a spouse and €29.80 for each child.

The big part that is skewing the results towards suggesting the dole over a job is how much rent allowance you could (but in reality may not) get.

Maybe I should call it 'Job or the dole plus rent allowance'?

Cavehill Red

Draco wrote: »

I do like that, but it doesn't roll off the tongue!

I disagree though - the €188 portion is jobseekers allowance which people call the dole. On top of that you can get €124.8 if you've a spouse and €29.80 for each child.

The big part that is skewing the results towards suggesting the dole over a job is how much rent allowance you could (but in reality may not) get.

Maybe I should call it 'Job or the dole plus rent allowance'?

I'd just call it a mistake.

Draco

Where's my mistake? I've backed my opinion with documentation. Or are we just going to take it that I'm forever wrong because I had a bit of fun knocking together something and then was foolish enough to come up with a catchy name and share it with the world?

dotsman

To be honest, I don't see it as being misleading. Draco clearly separates Rent Allowance from the "Dole" element" and states the assumption clearly.

What I would like to see added is other potential factors such as medical card, transport/food/other expenses related to working etc.

Dudess

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Oh, boo-hoo.

Be glad you're getting any money at all.

I take it you'd refuse dole if you lost your job?

markesmith

At the start I thought 'FFS', but really it's good that stuff like this comes onto t'Interweb so the Goverment can see it, and hopefully react.

hoyden

http://www.progressive-economy.ie/2011/03/life-of-luxury-on-dole.html

William Powell

I can't really see the point of rubishing it, it provokes debate so just rubishing it is like saying there is nothing to talk about.

KeithAFC

Job, Dole or rob?

Draco

hoyden wrote: »

http://www.progressive-economy.ie/2011/03/life-of-luxury-on-dole.html

I've written a rebuttal to that here: http://www.karlmonaghan.com/2011/03/15/jobordole-com-a-rebuttal/

tl;dr version: my numbers hold up but that guys post shows how unlikely it is

Mr. Incognito

Draco wrote: »

I'd be interested to know where you think my calculations are wrong?

The site is not meant to encourage people to actually go on the dole but was an exercise to in fact prove the Indo article wrong, which it unfortunately hasn't.

*ahem: http://www.progressive-economy.ie/20...y-on-dole.html

Cavehill Red

Draco wrote: »

I've written a rebuttal to that here: http://www.karlmonaghan.com/2011/03/15/jobordole-com-a-rebuttal/

tl;dr version: my numbers hold up but that guys post shows how unlikely it is

If you'd any honour you'd admit your numbers are basically fraudulent and amount to deliberately misleading information.
But I won't hold my breath waiting for honour from someone who seeks to demonise the unemployed in order to bring traffic to his (equally inaccurate) tax calculator website.

Jesus Wept

It doesn't understand that there are rent limits before you can get rent allowance.

Draco

Cavehill Red wrote: »

If you'd any honour you'd admit your numbers are basically fraudulent and amount to deliberately misleading information.
But I won't hold my breath waiting for honour from someone who seeks to demonise the unemployed in order to bring traffic to his (equally inaccurate) tax calculator website.

I'm standing over my numbers. Point out where I'm wrong and I'll correct them. If you play around with the calculator you'll see most of the time it is worth having a job. It's just that there are edge cases which it isn't Are you too embedded in your opinion that you can't see that?

colinod0806

KeithAFC wrote: »

Job, Dole or rob?

Theres no need to choose ye can do all three if ye like

richymcdermott

il use my dole money to open up a post office , more money for me MWHAHAHAHAHAHA

kowloon

PrincessLola wrote: »

awwww yeeeeehh:cool:
100 euro? I'll be a millionaire (in 191.65 years)

By which time your million will get you a happy meal .