Job or Dole?

Cavehill Red

Draco wrote: »

I'm standing over my numbers. Point out where I'm wrong and I'll correct them. If you play around with the calculator you'll see most of the time it is worth having a job. It's just that there are edge cases which it isn't Are you too embedded in your opinion that you can't see that?

Your entire methodology is simplistic and incorrect. Your 'handwaving assumptions' identify only a small minority of benefits recipients, rendering the calculator deliberately misleading and inaccurate.
This isn't about a few outliers. The majority of unemployed are outliers from your 'assumptions', especially as regards rent allowance.

deathrider

Cake or death?...

melekalikimaka

dole folk getting very defensive here...

major bill

melekalikimaka wrote: »

dole folk getting very defensive here...

spend a year on it and you would prob get defensive too.

s3129

Realistically seeing as I live in the sticks and getting a minimum wage job in town would involve expenses every day, I prob am better off on the dole.

However


I HATE IT

Predator_

KeithAFC wrote: »

Job, Dole or rob?

An Ulster Scot would know all about that;)

man.about.town

s3129 wrote: »

Realistically seeing as I live in the sticks and getting a minimum wage job in town would involve expenses every day, I prob am better off on the dole.

However


I HATE IT

if you really are choosing the dole over working, you really are a sad sad individual with no sense of self pride.

if i was ever to lose my job (thankfully i have never been unemployed), i would work at anything, i would not consider myself "too good" for a "minimum wage job" (as you put it)

Draco

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Your entire methodology is simplistic and incorrect. Your 'handwaving assumptions' identify only a small minority of benefits recipients, rendering the calculator deliberately misleading and inaccurate.
This isn't about a few outliers. The majority of unemployed are outliers from your 'assumptions', especially as regards rent allowance.

So despite the fact that the calculator shows that for most people (even with rent allowance) you're better off working it's misleading? Maybe, just maybe rather than taking it as an attack on the dole you should see it as pointing out that low paid workers need further support from the Government. But I'm guessing taking anything in a positive light is beyond your negative nature.

You've also changed tack from 'your calculator is WROOOOONG' to 'WAAAAHHHH you're pointing out that there are outliers and that's UNFAIR'.

I would put money on it that if I expanded out the welfare benefits you could claim it would just push more people over the edge to it being more financially viable to be on the dole.

wolfpawnat

Another "attack those on the Dole thread" What has it been, about 2 days since the last one! :rolleyes:

As with all other threads, the way things go is

Anti-Dole, Lucky to be working people ; It's too high, why are they getting so much, it should be halved, my tax euros, etc, etc, etc.

Recession hit workers now on Dole ; We want to work, I don't want to be on this, I am trying everywhere for work, even jobs that I really have no right trying for (I tried Google the other day, no degree but worst they can say is no) The bills are piling up, everyone is demanding their payment, but after rent and food, there is so little left!

Long term Dole users ; No comment as it is the Cheltenham festival and they are already preparing their bets for the bookies!

So in short, there is always abusers of the system, and that will never stop sickening us, but that is for the government to weed them out and look after those who are only here temporarily and trying to get us work again.

Until some snobs are actually on the dole they will always make uneducated comments that generalize everyone on it and do not want to listen to people saying they cannot get work because "there is always some" "they saw 10 signs today for workers" but never actually say where they saw the signs so we can rush there and hand in our CV's!

/rant over!

wolfpawnat

Draco wrote: »

I would put money on it that if I expanded out the welfare benefits you could claim it would just push more people over the edge to it being more financially viable to be on the dole.

Except of course you go to the CWO/SWO and ask for said benefits and you are told you are not eligible for the half of them and if you want X and Y, you cannot have Z and by getting both you lose your claim to a medical card!

Elevelyn

man.about.town wrote: »

if you really are choosing the dole over working, you really are a sad sad individual with no sense of self pride.

if i was ever to lose my job (thankfully i have never been unemployed), i would work at anything, i would not consider myself "too good" for a "minimum wage job" (as you put it)

Get over yourself FFS.

He lives out in the middle of nowhere, you don't know what this person would have to spend a week just to get to work never mind lunch, clothes for work etc. He never said he was too good for minimum wage just that there would be no point in it. Do you not realise that people have to eat, pay rent/bills.

drunkymonkey

BOB DOLE!

melekalikimaka

Elevelyn wrote: »

Get over yourself FFS.

He lives out in the middle of nowhere, you don't know what this person would have to spend a week just to get to work never mind lunch, clothes for work etc. He never said he was too good for minimum wage just that there would be no point in it. Do you not realise that people have to eat, pay rent/bills.

and here in lies the issue

Dunjohn

I thought this was a thread about Joe Dolan.

s3129

man.about.town wrote: »

if you really are choosing the dole over working, you really are a sad sad individual with no sense of self pride.

if i was ever to lose my job (thankfully i have never been unemployed), i would work at anything, i would not consider myself "too good" for a "minimum wage job" (as you put it)

Are you actually serious.... I didn't once say I was choosing the dole over a job. I stated how I was probably better off on the dole and followed by saying I hate it... Its in capital letters, did you miss it?

How f***ing dare you.

And as I put it ''too good'' for a minimum wage job...? How in the hell can you quote me when I did NOT say I was too good for a minimum wage job.

Keep your snotty nosed thoughts to yourself.

Elevelyn

melekalikimaka wrote: »

and here in lies the issue

Come on jesus, if someone was spending over 3/4 of their wage on expences how are they supposed to live???? I was out of work for AGES and recently got a part-time minimum wage job. I spend about 70E weekly on travel alone never mind lunch etc so I earn just enough to feed myself and maybe pay off bills. You don't know S3129 needs to live on per week so stop judging FFS

s3129

and whats more man.about.town, if you don't agree with a post, fair enough, but I don't think you have enough to go on by reading one post I make to call me a sad sad individual with no self pride.

I hate this thing of insulting posters when you don't know the first thing about them.

wolfpawnat

s3129 wrote: »

and whats more man.about.town, if you don't agree with a post, fair enough, but I don't think you have enough to go on by reading one post I make to call me a sad sad individual with no self pride.

I hate this thing of insulting posters when you don't know the first thing about them.

You would be worse to listen to him tbh! He has his job and doesn't care as long as he has it, but this recession is no where near over so he could be joining us on the dole queue very soon!

On a related note, there should be cheap creche facilities for those on low incomes because I dunno about anyone else, but min wage is about €306 a week (€7.65 x 40 hours) and creche is around €1000 for a month, so that leaves €224 to feed, clothe, pay rent and bills. Bit stupid really. In other countries it is calculated against your personal income!

melekalikimaka

Elevelyn wrote: »

Come on jesus, if someone was spending over 3/4 of their wage on expences how are they supposed to live???? I was out of work for AGES and recently got a part-time minimum wage job. I spend about 70E weekly on travel alone never mind lunch etc so I earn just enough to feed myself and maybe pay off bills. You don't know S3129 needs to live on per week so stop judging FFS

'needs' to live on

problem 2

Wile E. Coyote

melekalikimaka wrote: »

'needs' to live on

problem 2

How or why is this a problem? I'm no fan of the dole and think the whole thing needs an overhaul but people need a certain amount of disposable income to get by.

As quoted above by Wolfpawnat, if s3129 was a single parent who had to pay €1,000 a month in creche fees, to take the minimum wage job how would you expect them to live on €224 a month?

wolfpawnat

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

As quoted above by Wolfpawnat, if s3129 was a single parent who had to pay €1,000 a month in creche fees, to take the minimum wage job how would you expect them to live on €224 a month?

Well Single parents get a little more assistance as they have only one income to look after a household.

But my situation.

I could not afford to continue my degree after I had a child, so I am unqualified. The father is doing a second degree as there is no longer work available for what he qualified in first(he was an Archaeologist), so he does not get a grant and it costs €10,000 a year in fees (reg fee plus course fee) the fees are paid out of the inheritance his father put for him in his will, it will only just cover the cost.

I am unemployed and the father lives with me, so we do not get OPFP and all I can get is JSA of €188 plus €29.70 a week for my child, so we have a grand total of €218.70 a week to feed us, cloth us, pay bills and pay €50 towards our rent. The father being in college means €15.70 a week in bus bills as well as the usual bills, ESB, Gas, Eircom, etc.

I am not entitled for anything for the father even though technically he is a "dependant adult" because he is in college. We are never up to date with our bills and need constant financial assistance from our families just to keep the basics!

So I would be better off if I was to play the system, but like many others with a bit of self respect I do not, leaving me in a terrible position and in one that leaves my family barely able to get by.

Elevelyn

melekalikimaka wrote: »

'needs' to live on

problem 2

Yes needs to live on, im not talking about drink and stuff, just food, shelter and electricity. Dunno why I should justify myself to someone who is obviously only trying to get a rise and taking everything said out of context :mad::mad::mad:

Heathen

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

the black despairing days and the build up of bills while your friends go out while you miss social occasions, birthdays, stag nights

Actually sounds just like my current job

But i would pick job over dole any day!! I would crack up with nothing to do all day.. I would try to start my own business if i was made redundant and got a nice redundancy, but getting the startup capital would be difficult if i was on the dole..

s3129

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

How or why is this a problem? I'm no fan of the dole and think the whole thing needs an overhaul but people need a certain amount of disposable income to get by.

As quoted above by Wolfpawnat, if s3129 was a single parent who had to pay €1,000 a month in creche fees, to take the minimum wage job how would you expect them to live on €224 a month?

I agree, I've always said the dole is too much, there are certain people I know who are happy out collecting it every week and haven't a notion of looking for work. But at the same time, bills add up, rent, electricity, food, I'm paying 85 euro a month on my phone and won't be out of contract until August.. So don't anyone here (man.about.town) tell me I'm a sad individual. Like the rest of us, I'm trying to survive...

O ya, and just got a call for a job interview Monday morning.. Turned it down...


JOKE


I'll be in bright and early Monday morning.. fingers crossed it goes well.. How sad an individual with no self pride am I now man.about.town......?

smokedeels

It tells me to staying working, €200 in the difference. (single, renting, no kids, low wage)

I'm hoping to go to Student-town anyway.

Chaotic_Forces

Elevelyn wrote: »

Yes needs to live on, im not talking about drink and stuff, just food, shelter and electricity. Dunno why I should justify myself to someone who is obviously only trying to get a rise and taking everything said out of context :mad::mad::mad:

Because that person more than likely works and we are the scum of society.

See, according to every person who thinks we're on the dole by choice and don't want to work, we shouldn't be given anything, which is fine.

But like that other girl said, she lives in the back part of nowhere and after her wages - travel cost, bills, rent and whatnot, she'll barely be surviving.

But... she should work! Why? Because then the "I have a job" crew can be so proud that another scrounger is off the dole; nevermind the fact they more than likely could just report the actual scroungers, they just want to be able to look down upon us.

It's funny how bullies have to get their happiness.

wolfpawnat

s3129 wrote: »

I agree, I've always said the dole is too much, there are certain people I know who are happy out collecting it every week and haven't a notion of looking for work. But at the same time, bills add up, rent, electricity, food, I'm paying 85 euro a month on my phone and won't be out of contract until August.. So don't anyone here (man.about.town) tell me I'm a sad individual. Like the rest of us, I'm trying to survive...

O ya, and just got a call for a job interview Monday morning.. Turned it down...


JOKE


I'll be in bright and early Monday morning.. fingers crossed it goes well.. How sad an individual with no self pride am I now man.about.town......?

Good luck Have the fingers crossed for you

wolfpawnat

Actually went onto the link there myself, and surprise surprise, I was told that I would be better off working! No new news there. If only that actually got me a job!

Also what that calculator does not factor in is the self worth and pride you feel having actually done a days work and knowing that every penny in your purse is your own and that you earned it!

Joined thread, seen that After Hours reacted exactly how I thought they would, leaving again.

filmbuffboy

Draco wrote: »

If you look at my list of assumptions, you'll see I mention that if you are renting that I assume you end up getting full rent allowance, not that you definitely and always do get rent allowance.

The fact that I call them 'Hand waving assumptions' might be the clue that that I'm not claiming it's an absolute 100%-correct-in-all-situations-accurate calculator or that it is perfect. What I am saying is that in VERY straightforward cases where there are no tax or welfare complications it you might be better off staying on the dole than talking a job.

Things are never straightforward when going down the social lol.