Andy Kelly Removed From Head Coach Position

MerryWhistleblo

Retired? Sacked?
http://www.rli.ie/article/building-towards-a-world-cup.html

toomevara

Interesting this. Have no idea why, will see. Also from the point of view of Irish RL there is a big head of steam building up over here for the reinstatement of the GB&I lions with a view to putting a tour of Oz together. Personally I think this is a great idea and would give anyone in Ireland interested in pursuing a career in RL a genuine shot at top class international RL.....

Dozen Wicked Words

MerryWhistleblo wrote: »

Retired? Sacked?
http://www.rli.ie/article/building-towards-a-world-cup.html

Sacked, said to be "bitterly disappointed" according to Sporting life website but yet to comment officially.

toomevara wrote: »

Interesting this. Have no idea why, will see. Also from the point of view of Irish RL there is a big head of steam building up over here for the reinstatement of the GB&I lions with a view to putting a tour of Oz together. Personally I think this is a great idea and would give anyone in Ireland interested in pursuing a career in RL a genuine shot at top class international RL.....

Not sure how the Lions idea would work, as "England" are more or less the lions now by default, 2 Scotland players jumped ship last week.

fanofrl

toomevara wrote: »

Interesting this. Have no idea why, will see. Also from the point of view of Irish RL there is a big head of steam building up over here for the reinstatement of the GB&I lions with a view to putting a tour of Oz together. Personally I think this is a great idea and would give anyone in Ireland interested in pursuing a career in RL a genuine shot at top class international RL.....

I think Irish players will get their chance at "top class" international RL in the world cup 2013 when they play both Australia and England.

The Clan

Thjis looks like an absolute carve up to me!

Ther'll be some no name coach who's got the ear of a RFL official who's eying up the 2013 World Cup to boost his CV.

We'll see someone come into the job making all the right noises, we'll get poor results and then they'll be off to coach a Championship team in England.

One of the great things about Kelly was his comitment to Ireland Rugby league over an 11 year period. His coaching ability was there for all to see during the 2008 WC where we were one game away from the semi's after topping the so called group of death, and this followed a tight qtr final battle against England in the WC before that.

Since 2008 weve lost just about every player from that WC squad and Kelly, McDermott, O'Conner and Co have had to rebuild the team from the bottom up.

Mike Callaghan has been superb in his Management of the squad and we've seen record sponsorship for RLI under his stewardship.

Apart from these guys theres about another half dozen who've gone and I don't know where we will get the people to replace the quality and expertise thats just gone out the door. It will be miraculous if we can find one individual who can match the passion and commitment of Andy Kelly and his management team.

Sad and bad day for Ireland Rugby League and those who made the decision should hang their heads.

fanofrl

I think it might have something to do with the fact that Ireland lost every game last season, seniors, "A"s and students. The head coach is responsible for that and in any sport, such results would usually lead to some change. Some of the results last year were hard to fathom, especially the defeat to Scotland which was awful. Leading at half time and then falling apart, there appeared to be something very wrong. The senior players in the team just didn't perform to the same ability they do week in week out in the Superleague. The bottom line is, after 11 years, maybe a change could be a positive thing, maybe not. but it's no real suprise. I would imagine that the full scale changes of all personnel is just to give a clean slate to the incoming coach whoever he is. I'm sure to attract the right person, you would have to allow them to pick their own assistants.
I think the RLI statement shows a genuine gratitude to a man who will be missed but I'm sure understood the need for change.

The Clan

I might have some sympathy for that view IF the Management and coaching team had'nt been told that results were secondary to finding and building a new larger squad of players.

For RLI and RFL to then use results as a reason for changing the staff is rather hypocritcal.

You also seem to be ignoring te fact that the squad that played the last two years contained only 5 players from 2008/9.

I'm sorry you disagree but there's something else behind this and as I said earlier I think that Neil Wood of the RFL has an alterior motive for taking this action.

Time will tell if I'm right.

toomevara

fanofrl wrote: »

I think Irish players will get their chance at "top class" international RL in the world cup 2013 when they play both Australia and England.

yeah, I think you're missing my point. It'd be nice if Irish born players could play regularly in a formalised representative set up, rather than once every four years. It'd also be nice if they felt they didn't have to play for England to do so. Further, it'd also be nice if they could win with some regularity.

WakeyTyke

The Clan wrote: »

I might have some sympathy for that view IF the Management and coaching team had'nt been told that results were secondary to finding and building a new larger squad of players.

For RLI and RFL to then use results as a reason for changing the staff is rather hypocritcal.

You also seem to be ignoring te fact that the squad that played the last two years contained only 5 players from 2008/9.

I'm sorry you disagree but there's something else behind this and as I said earlier I think that Neil Wood of the RFL has an alterior motive for taking this action.

Time will tell if I'm right.

Being privy to knowing the identity and credentials of The Clan, his comments on this subject are based on a very close understanding of the situation and from his position I would very aggrieved too.

Irish Rugby League has just taken a massive step backward.:mad:

toomevara

Both Barrie McDermott and Steve O'Connor have also been told their services are no longer required by the RLI. In an even more bizarre development Kelly has been told he can re-apply for the job if he likes. Unsurprisingly he's said he wont be doing that. Daft, bizarre and utterly disastrous....bad to worse for the RLI. Its also clear that at no point was Kelly made aware that the axe was going to fall or that his position was in question. In a testament to him he has wished Irish RL and its players well. A testament to him and an even greater indictment of the way the RLI does business.

WakeyTyke

toomevara wrote: »

Both Barrie McDermott and Steve O'Connor have also been told their services are no longer required by the RLI. In an even more bizarre development Kelly has been told he can re-apply for the job if he likes. Unsurprisingly he's said he wont be doing that. Daft, bizarre and utterly disastrous....bad to worse for the RLI. Its also clear that at no point was Kelly made aware that the axe was going to fall or that his position was in question. In a testament to him he has wished Irish RL and its players well. A testament to him and an even greater indictment of the way the RLI does business.

Astounding. The RLI doesn't deserve someone of the calibre and integrity of a top-class person that Andy Kelly is, glad he told them to look elsewhere.:mad:

Dozen Wicked Words

Sounds to me like a cost-cutting exercise, maybe the RLI are in financial trouble and the lads were on contracts they couldn't afford? Only guessing, but weird to offer him chance to re-apply otherwise.

MerryWhistleblo

Very interesting slants being taken on this thread, outside of the issue of Andy Kelly as a person but as a national head coach, all posters( bar one) including the moderator of the forum have failed to display a knowledge of the domestic game in Ireland. Question- where are all the domestic players that have played for Ireland in the last 6 years gone? Did they all declare for England because there is no GB Lions tour? Did they all turn pro and concentrate on earning their next big money contract? Did they decide that after the World Cup in Australia that there was little glamour in playing internationals in Tullamore and Neath? Did they decide that results don't matter, that they were part of a process of building a pool of players to compete at the next World Cup? Or did they decide one by one that they were tokens, never taken seriously with their names mis-pronounced, put in front of cameras and microphones to add local colour?

Rugby League Ireland should be developing rugby league in Ireland and developing Irish born rugby league players. If that means getting rid of the self-interest of a collective and re-discovering the home-grown game..

MerryWhistleblo

toomevara wrote: »

Both Barrie McDermott and Steve O'Connor have also been told their services are no longer required by the RLI. In an even more bizarre development Kelly has been told he can re-apply for the job if he likes. Unsurprisingly he's said he wont be doing that. Daft, bizarre and utterly disastrous....bad to worse for the RLI. Its also clear that at no point was Kelly made aware that the axe was going to fall or that his position was in question. In a testament to him he has wished Irish RL and its players well. A testament to him and an even greater indictment of the way the RLI does business.

Barrie McDermott informed RLI in 2009 that he was no longer able to commit to his role as Assistant Coach, replaced by Tony Benson (Oldham Roughyeds) for 2010 European Cup. Terry O'Connor stood down as assistant team manager to Mike Callaghan after the 2008 World Cup. Mike Callaghan stood down as team manager in 2010, replaced by Richard Tunningley. None of the above were forced out, they stated(through third parties or by e-mail) that they were unable to fulfil their roles to RLI AGMs in 2009 and 2010.

WakeyTyke

MerryWhistleblo wrote: »

Very interesting slants being taken on this thread, outside of the issue of Andy Kelly as a person but as a national head coach, all posters( bar one) including the moderator of the forum have failed to display a knowledge of the domestic game in Ireland. Question- where are all the domestic players that have played for Ireland in the last 6 years gone? Did they all declare for England because there is no GB Lions tour? Did they all turn pro and concentrate on earning their next big money contract? Did they decide that after the World Cup in Australia that there was little glamour in playing internationals in Tullamore and Neath? Did they decide that results don't matter, that they were part of a process of building a pool of players to compete at the next World Cup? Or did they decide one by one that they were tokens, never taken seriously with their names mis-pronounced, put in front of cameras and microphones to add local colour?

Rugby League Ireland should be developing rugby league in Ireland and developing Irish born rugby league players. If that means getting rid of the self-interest of a collective and re-discovering the home-grown game..

The grass-root development of RL in Ireland is surely a separate issue to that of the coach of the national team? Isn't his role is to pick the best available players who are eligible to play for Ireland. Or am I missing something here?

big barrie

fanofrl wrote: »

I think it might have something to do with the fact that Ireland lost every game last season, seniors, "A"s and students. The head coach is responsible for that and in any sport, such results would usually lead to some change. Some of the results last year were hard to fathom, especially the defeat to Scotland which was awful. Leading at half time and then falling apart, there appeared to be something very wrong. The senior players in the team just didn't perform to the same ability they do week in week out in the Superleague. The bottom line is, after 11 years, maybe a change could be a positive thing, maybe not. but it's no real suprise. I would imagine that the full scale changes of all personnel is just to give a clean slate to the incoming coach whoever he is. I'm sure to attract the right person, you would have to allow them to pick their own assistants.
I think the RLI statement shows a genuine gratitude to a man who will be missed but I'm sure understood the need for change.

have been following rli at underage and students for the last 6 years and not one of the management team kelly , mc dermott , kelly was at one of the games i watched. senior a v wales 2009 thats it,

billy slater

he attended at least 2 more games off the top of my head that i remember. in saying that it was time for a change.

kellco88

I only recall Andy at two games. A game against wales in 09 and Scotland last year. Not sure if he goes to the a games that are played in the uk.

I think after only one win since the world cup that being against Serbia it was time for change.

And Barrie and Terry left they werent told their services were no longer needed.

fanofrl

MerryWhistleblo wrote: »

Barrie McDermott informed RLI in 2009 that he was no longer able to commit to his role as Assistant Coach, replaced by Tony Benson (Oldham Roughyeds) for 2010 European Cup. Terry O'Connor stood down as assistant team manager to Mike Callaghan after the 2008 World Cup. Mike Callaghan stood down as team manager in 2010, replaced by Richard Tunningley. None of the above were forced out, they stated(through third parties or by e-mail) that they were unable to fulfil their roles to RLI AGMs in 2009 and 2010.

I think people should also realise that Andy Kelly never had a contract of more than one year !!! The RLI give a contract till the end of each competition. THEREFORE he was not told he can apply for his own job, it would be wrong to tell him he could not apply again-and as far as i'm aware, he was not told that (in fact I think that would be illegal).

This season, however, the job description has apparently changed. Perhaps to make the role responsible for all rugby matters, who knows. We'll see whenever the job is advertised.

toomevara

MerryWhistleblo wrote: »

Barrie McDermott informed RLI in 2009 that he was no longer able to commit to his role as Assistant Coach, replaced by Tony Benson (Oldham Roughyeds) for 2010 European Cup. Terry O'Connor stood down as assistant team manager to Mike Callaghan after the 2008 World Cup. Mike Callaghan stood down as team manager in 2010, replaced by Richard Tunningley. None of the above were forced out, they stated(through third parties or by e-mail) that they were unable to fulfil their roles to RLI AGMs in 2009 and 2010.

Thanks for that, appreciated. Was Kelly told he could reapply for the job he's just been sacked from? Just as matter of interest?

fanofrl

toomevara wrote: »

Was Kelly told he could reapply for the job he's just been sacked from?

I think several people have explained he was not sacked. His contract had expired after the European Cup. Becuase the rli have changed the job description-his old job no longer exists. Of course he could apply for the new post, any one in the world can.

toomevara

fanofrl wrote: »

I think several people have explained he was not sacked. His contract had expired after the European Cup. Becuase the rli have changed the job description-his old job no longer exists. Of course he could apply for the new post, any one in the world can.

Yeah, grand I get that cheers, still a sacking though. All I'm asking is whether he was asked specifically to re-apply for this newly 'redefined' coaching job although as far as I can see its the same bleedin' job, as in an interview with league weekly he said he was. I'll await merry's reply as he seems to have the inside track.

The Clan

fanofrl wrote: »

I think several people have explained he was not sacked. His contract had expired after the European Cup. Becuase the rli have changed the job description-his old job no longer exists. Of course he could apply for the new post, any one in the world can.

Fanofrl, I don't know where you're getting your information from but you are well wide of the Mark with your facts.

You might all be interested to know that for all the time, effort, passion and expertise that Andy Kelly brought to RLI he was paid the princely sum of approx £750! No expenses, no perks and often had to dig into his own pocket to supply certain items of training gear.

It was never about money or title but always was about pride and passion for RLI. The same can be said of Mike Callaghan, Terry O'Conner, Barrie McDermott and about five other back room staff.

The decisions been made and Andy Kelly has wished RLI well, but let's not start dressing this up as anything but a travesty for the Irish. As I said before, the amount of know how, commitment, understanding, genuine passion and that's been lost from the international set up will not be replaced easily and IMO never will be.

Unfortunately speculation and rumour will fill the void left by the lack of information about these decisions but time will judge the intelligence of those who swung the axe.

Nuff said!

big barrie

the clan has very privilaged info about funds to andy kelly, or is it the clan = andy kelly

MerryWhistleblo

You might all be interested to know that for all the time, effort, passion and expertise that Andy Kelly brought to RLI he was paid the princely sum of approx £750! No expenses, no perks and often had to dig into his own pocket to supply certain items of training gear.

Horsesh*t.

MerryWhistleblo

big barrie wrote: »

the clan has very privilaged info about funds to andy kelly, or is it the clan = andy kelly

toomevara wrote: »

Yeah, grand I get that cheers, still a sacking though. All I'm asking is whether he was asked specifically to re-apply for this newly 'redefined' coaching job although as far as I can see its the same bleedin' job, as in an interview with league weekly he said he was. I'll await merry's reply as he seems to have the inside track.

Inside track comes from The Clan and WakeyTyke. My 'inside track' comes from talking to the domestically based players that have been involved with the Senior Irish team. No player who takes time off from his job to represent his country should be made to feel that he is a 'burden' or a necessitaty because of the quotas applied by the governing bodies.

MerryWhistleblo

WakeyTyke wrote: »

The grass-root development of RL in Ireland is surely a separate issue to that of the coach of the national team? Isn't his role is to pick the best available players who are eligible to play for Ireland. Or am I missing something here?

Depends on what your perspective is, do you see the national senior team as the ultimate goal of an Irish rugby league player or do you see it as a fabrication of the 2000 WC Committee- a haven for players that don't quite make the England team? Harrison, Bridge, Prescott, McIllorum?

MerryWhistleblo

big barrie wrote: »

the clan has very privilaged info about funds to andy kelly, or is it the clan = andy kelly

Close mate, not Andy but close.

MerryWhistleblo

toomevara wrote: »

Yeah, grand I get that cheers, still a sacking though. All I'm asking is whether he was asked specifically to re-apply for this newly 'redefined' coaching job although as far as I can see its the same bleedin' job, as in an interview with league weekly he said he was. I'll await merry's reply as he seems to have the inside track.

I possess no 'inside track' and I was not party to or consulted on the decision to 'redefine' or determine the role of the Senior Coach. I was not present when these decisions were made or conveyed. However, I am happy that the management team have been removed and that the disconnect from the game in Ireland can now be repaired.The loss of raw talent like Kerr, Gibbons, Treacy, Barbour, Gee,..to the domestic game in Ireland ...

fanofrl

are Paddy Powers taking bets on whose getting the job ????????? I see it was advertised today.
Suprisingly it sayd that it is a contract up untill the WC 2013.
I would have thought a 1 year with an option of more would have been better.
It puts massive pressure on getting the right person now if he's guaranteed to be a world cup coach by singing up now.

fanofrl

MerryWhistleblo wrote: »

My 'inside track' comes from talking to the domestically based players that have been involved with the Senior Irish team. No player who takes time off from his job to represent his country should be made to feel that he is a 'burden' or a necessitaty because of the quotas applied by the governing bodies.

To be fair, I have also heard (first hand) very good reports from Domestic players in the senior squad that were very positive about Andy Kelly and others.
I'm not dismissing what you were saying above but it was probably not black and white.