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nepotism in local council

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  • 15-03-2011 10:22am
    #1
    mattwoodturner
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭


    Does anyone else feel annoyed that Tony McLoughlin TD is able to shoo in his daughter into his council seat unchallenged. Doesn't this kind of thing perpetuate the kind of politics that we were all supposed to be sick of??


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    #2
    El Weirdo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,647 ✭✭✭✭El Weirdo


    Did you really think that FG were going to be any different from FF?


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    #3
    mattwoodturner
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭mattwoodturner


    I voted for neither


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    #4
    Essexboy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Essexboy


    The County Council live on a different planet.

    There is more than adequate zoned and serviced land, unfinished buildings and vacant sites in the county to provide for new development yet the FF group and their allies continue to try rezoning more land for housing. Why?

    If McLoughlin was still sitting on the Council he would most likely have supported them!


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    #5
    shellyriver
    Registered Users Posts: 194 ✭✭shellyriver


    Give her a break. I'm sure she will be a wonderful councillor. Don't forget, firstly, it's wonderfully gender appropriate. If only there was more fathers voted into the Dail, who have politically motivated daughters, to shoo-into citadels of representative democracy. Maybe the world would be a better place.


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    #6
    mountainy man
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭mountainy man


    shellyriver wrote: »
    Give her a break. I'm sure she will be a wonderful councillor. Don't forget, firstly, it's wonderfully gender appropriate. If only there was more fathers voted into the Dail, who have politically motivated daughters, to shoo-into citadels of representative democracy. Maybe the world would be a better place.

    I dont have any problem with her (she might be great) I do have a problem with the way she was appointed , we should have a bye-election to replace councilors .


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    #7
    red sean
    Registered Users Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭red sean


    mountainy man wrote: »
    I dont have any problem with her (she might be great) I do have a problem with the way she was appointed , we should have a bye-election to replace councilors .
    That would just be more unnecessary cost to the taxpayer.


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    #8
    El Weirdo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,647 ✭✭✭✭El Weirdo


    red sean wrote: »
    That would just be more unnecessary cost to the taxpayer.
    Sure, why don't we just do away with elections altogether and save this "unnecessary" cost?:rolleyes:


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    #9
    genie
    Registered Users Posts: 975 ✭✭✭genie


    red sean wrote: »
    That would just be more unnecessary cost to the taxpayer.

    Do you not believe in democracy?


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    #10
    Essexboy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Essexboy


    shellyriver wrote: »
    Give her a break. I'm sure she will be a wonderful councillor. Don't forget, firstly, it's wonderfully gender appropriate. If only there was more fathers voted into the Dail, who have politically motivated daughters, to shoo-into citadels of representative democracy. Maybe the world would be a better place.

    I'm sure she will be a wonderful councillor.

    Why?


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    #11
    Buford T Justice
    Registered Users Posts: 6,259 ✭✭✭Buford T Justice


    I think that more's the point, why was she not challenged?


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    #12
    CityMan2010
    Closed Accounts Posts: 201 ✭✭CityMan2010


    I cannot pass comment on Tony McLoughlin or his daughter, but good luck to them both.

    But I would suggest that it is this type of practice, generally, that has got Ireland into the state we are currently in.

    Lets go back a bit, shall we say a few centuries?, well back to the 14th century if memory serves me well...

    The last Bishop in Ireland to murder his son, was the Bishop of Elphin in the 14th Century...he did so in a drunken brawl.

    At this vague point it was also decreed by Rome, that the Catholic clergy should not be allowed to have children in order to stop such nepotic practice (the Priest's job was handed down to the eldest male, along with all the perks, wine women and song, plenty of etc).

    In reality Ireland is still not a million miles way from that.

    Now put your hands up... who knows someone who got their job because:

    1) of family connections/nepotism
    2) who they voted for
    3) what favours they did and/or
    4) what favours they were owed
    5) who they canvassed for etc.............

    Irish Politicians.......

    Ireland in terms of size, is comparable to Greater Manchester, its population/electorate is the same, but Ireland has in no way, the variety of issues that Greater Manchester has to deal with. But our elected representatives get paid salaries in multiples of English counteparts. In Ireland politics is a career, in most other countries, it has more of a vocational/idealistic/altrustic and, dare I say it political, motivation behind it..

    In summary, IMO, Ireland needs to ensure that recruitment for ALL jobs in ALL areas is subject to independent scrutiny, ie: whoever is most suitable for the job in terms of experience and qualifications etc, gets the job, not because of who you voted for, where you live in town, what your name is or who yer da is...

    This process needs to be put in place, monitored and reviewed by independent bodies.

    Until Ireland gets that fundamantal principle sorted out, we shall remain in a Banana Republic...Bottom line, Ireland is corrupt.

    IMO we should start to Vote on electing our Mayors..that would be a start...not letting the usual career politicians on the gravy train taking it in turns to be Mayor...we all have a voice...USE IT>>>>>

    A country gets the government it deserves...

    mattwoodturner wrote: »
    Does anyone else feel annoyed that Tony McLoughlin TD is able to shoo in his daughter into his council seat unchallenged. Doesn't this kind of thing perpetuate the kind of politics that we were all supposed to be sick of??


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    #13
    shellyriver
    Registered Users Posts: 194 ✭✭shellyriver


    Essexboy wrote: »
    I'm sure she will be a wonderful councillor.

    Why?

    Ha, ha. Complete sarcasm by-pass. Good luck to you.:D


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    #14
    mattwoodturner
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭mattwoodturner


    CityMan2010 says it all. I have no objection to Ms McCarroll as a person and she may well prove to be a good councillor but the point is we dont know anything about her or what she stands for. Do her politics part from her da's in anyway? Doesn't the fact that the other candidates stepped aside suggest that they were attempting to curry favour with McLoughlin? This event raises so many questions about our political system. Some have suggested that an election would be costly?? So do we embrace this because its handy?


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    #15
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    CityMan2010 wrote: »

    A country gets the government it deserves...


    That's just a lazy old cliche that's trotted out every time someone complains about a government.


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    #16
    CityMan2010
    Closed Accounts Posts: 201 ✭✭CityMan2010


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    That's just a lazy old cliche that's trotted out every time someone complains about a government.

    I dont agree with your interpretation...my take on it is, the electorate votes in its representatives. At the previous election, the majority of the electorate were happy with the way the country was being run by FF, no questions were asked as to what might happen due to their reckless financial mismanagement, heads in sand time...the party was on and everyone was winning, but no one was calling red alert...although many were predicting a financial collapse. At that time the country got the government it deserved, everyone was on the gravy train, whether they knew it or not, and no one was complaining, no questions were being asked, well not by the majority.


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    #17
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    CityMan2010 wrote: »
    I dont agree with your interpretation...my take on it is, the electorate votes in its representatives. At the previous election, the majority of the electorate were happy with the way the country was being run by FF, no questions were asked as to what might happen due to their reckless financial mismanagement, heads in sand time...the party was on and everyone was winning, but no one was calling red alert...although many were predicting a financial collapse. At that time the country got the government it deserved, everyone was on the gravy train, whether they knew it or not, and no one was complaining, no questions were being asked, well not by the majority.

    It's true that the electorate votes in it's representatives - in a democracy, that's a given. However, after that point, they have little or no say in what their representatives do once they are in power.

    Now, while the Irish electorate can be blamed for taking their eye off the political ball during the "boom years", I can't see how that can be extended to how far Fianna Fail messed up our country. That's just a step too far.

    Fianna Fail sold the soul of the country to the developers & bankers, then sold our economic sovereignty to Europe. There was little or nothing we could have done to stop them. Anyone who complained was told to shut up & stop being negative. They told us everything was fine.

    A lot of people believed them, but that hardly makes it their fault. When the people in power deceive the electorate, when the bodies that are supposedly in place to ensure that the banks and the economy are not in jeopardy (namely the Central Bank & Financial Regulator) are not doing their job (and lying to us that they are), when the Trade Unions who are supposed to protect their workers are helping this sabotaging the country's finances, who really is to blame?

    The electorate who get a say in things once every five years? The electorate - who when it comes to votes on Constitutional changes - vote "No", but then are forced to vote again under a campaign of fear about job losses mounted by the government until they say "yes"?

    I don't think so. Yes, we are partly to blame. But to say that the electorate get the government they deserve is a lazy answer and one that ignores most of the reality & truth of the matter.

    In Irish politics, there appears to be no personal responsibilty - that courtesy only ever seems to be to extended to the electorate.


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    #18
    CityMan2010
    Closed Accounts Posts: 201 ✭✭CityMan2010


    I take on board your points, but I would still believe that historically the people of Ireland have been accepting of the status quo/corruption/cronyism that has allowed successive governments to have brought us to where we are now. That is where MattWoodTurner commenced the conversation.

    You only need to look at recruitment practices as an example to see what has become the accepted norm in Ireland. There is very little meritocracy in Ireland.

    Saying that "there was little or nothing we could have done to stop them" (FF) in this recent episode is true to an extent, however in a general broader context, it is the people of Ireland who for decades by their acceptance, has allowed such practices to take place. Anyways, thats me done..



    starbelgrade wrote: »
    It's true that the electorate votes in it's representatives - in a democracy, that's a given. However, after that point, they have little or no say in what their representatives do once they are in power.

    Now, while the Irish electorate can be blamed for taking their eye off the political ball during the "boom years", I can't see how that can be extended to how far Fianna Fail messed up our country. That's just a step too far.

    Fianna Fail sold the soul of the country to the developers & bankers, then sold our economic sovereignty to Europe. There was little or nothing we could have done to stop them. Anyone who complained was told to shut up & stop being negative. They told us everything was fine.

    A lot of people believed them, but that hardly makes it their fault. When the people in power deceive the electorate, when the bodies that are supposedly in place to ensure that the banks and the economy are not in jeopardy (namely the Central Bank & Financial Regulator) are not doing their job (and lying to us that they are), when the Trade Unions who are supposed to protect their workers are helping this sabotaging the country's finances, who really is to blame?

    The electorate who get a say in things once every five years? The electorate - who when it comes to votes on Constitutional changes - vote "No", but then are forced to vote again under a campaign of fear about job losses mounted by the government until they say "yes"?

    I don't think so. Yes, we are partly to blame. But to say that the electorate get the government they deserve is a lazy answer and one that ignores most of the reality & truth of the matter.

    In Irish politics, there appears to be no personal responsibilty - that courtesy only ever seems to be to extended to the electorate.


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    #19
    T runner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    shellyriver wrote: »
    Give her a break. I'm sure she will be a wonderful councillor. Don't forget, firstly, it's wonderfully gender appropriate. If only there was more fathers voted into the Dail, who have politically motivated daughters, to shoo-into citadels of representative democracy. Maybe the world would be a better place.

    The majority of female TDs in the last dail were either related to or married to a former TD. We arte maxed out in shoo-ins and still have F-all female TDS and a minister (Rory Quinn) who said that a female minister for children was appropriate because women were "better with children". This from a party with the most radical policies on representative politics.

    I assume you are complaining about the lack of meaningful representative politics here and not making some silly cut at people trying to make it more representative so i guess ill agree here.


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    #20
    T runner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    It's true that the electorate votes in it's representatives - in a democracy, that's a given. However, after that point, they have little or no say in what their representatives do once they are in power

    Just my tuppence.

    The candidates represent the standard of potential TDs.
    Most of our candidates are middle aged married men with the wife minding the kids at home ergo most of our TDs are middle aged, married etc.

    Woman make up roughly 14% of candidates...same in dail.

    So you see we can choose our TDs but we cant choose our candidates.
    The dearth in talent and represetntation happens before the names get put on the ballot paper.

    Therefore the electorate has less choice than you think.
    Now, while the Irish electorate can be blamed for taking their eye off the political ball during the "boom years", I can't see how that can be extended to how far Fianna Fail messed up our country. That's just a step too far

    Who was in power made little difference. FG were promising more growth in 2007 than FF. This was not possible without tax returns from a property bubble.

    This was the sequence of Irish trouble: Joined Euro, nothing wrong with that but it means yiou cant devalue anymore to remain competitive. We let inflation rise, (the government and consum,ers for shoping recklessly and foolishly), that made our exports expensive which meant we started relying on home grown tax evenues ie building industry. And as we know an investment bubble which crashes can leave a whole country with their trosers down.
    Fianna Fail sold the soul of the country to the developers & bankers, then sold our economic sovereignty to Europe. There was little or nothing we could have done to stop them. Anyone who complained was told to shut up & stop being negative. They told us everything was fine.

    Everyone had a vested interest in property in Ireland. The councils needed revenue from commercial rates. Thats why rates are more expenisve now..less business.

    We could also have stopped buyiong foolishly and recklessly.

    As Jesse Jacksoin saids recently the great changes in society are not made by politicians but by people. We have the power to inform ourself. We have the power of protest. The Arab nations have shown yet again how powerful that is.

    A lot of people believed them, but that hardly makes it their fault. When the people in power deceive the electorate, when the bodies that are supposedly in place to ensure that the banks and the economy are not in jeopardy (namely the Central Bank & Financial Regulator) are not doing their job (and lying to us that they are),

    THey were lied to also by the banks remember. Even Morgan Stanley said things were Aok.
    when the Trade Unions who are supposed to protect their workers are helping this sabotaging the country's finances, who really is to blame?

    The whols trade unions thing is a red herring. It was actually a ploy with the media by FF to get recent cuts through and a very successful one.

    The government threw money at everyone. The whole world thought we had a very advanced and civiklised social partners. Blaming trade Unions in hindsight just doesnt fit.
    The electorate who get a say in things once every five years? The electorate - who when it comes to votes on Constitutional changes - vote "No", but then are forced to vote again under a campaign of fear about job losses mounted by the government until they say "yes"?

    They stilhave the choice to inform themselves and vote anyway they chose. We are conservative and dont rock the boat. We should inform ourselves and protest.

    In Irish politics, there appears to be no personal responsibilty - that courtesy only ever seems to be to extended to the electorate.

    The electorate or recent opposition havent taken personal responsibility to be fair. Its all FFs fault. FF grew out of a non functioning system. FF needed to be cut free, but the system must change. The recent jobs for teh boys we saw in the new cabinet should have a lot of people shocked and angered.

    It didnt. That is worrying. Perthaps the new government has fooled the electorate for teh 3 weeks it needs to every 5 years. Sound familiar?


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