PC For Business Use

prospect

So, in our office we normally get Dells, these would be for 2D CAD users.
Problem with Dells is that they are pricey enough and as I have discovered, not very upgradeable.

So, I am considering building a machine from scratch to get the costs down. I have built machines from spare parts for various things, so am perfectly confident that I can do it.

Anyone care to comment on the principle? Also, here is what I was thinking, the equivalent spec (slightly poorer infact) from Dell is €940:

Case Nothing fancy required, this has cable mgmt and a bottom mounted PSU
Thermaltake V3 Black Edition ohne Netzteil
ready for dispatch
36,25 €

PSU Trying to keep power down, if successful I could end up building 15 of these!
Xigmatek GO GREEN Series PSU 80plus - 400 Watt
ready for dispatch
45,92 €

Processor
Intel Core i5-650 Box 4096Kb, LGA1156
ready for dispatch
159,11 €

Mainboard
Gigabyte GA-P55-UD3L, Intel P55, ATX, DDR3, PCI-Express
ready for dispatch
77,02 €

Memory
4GB-Kit Corsair DDR3 PC1600 C9 Classic
ready for dispatch
37,15 €

O/S
MS Windows 7 Pro 64bit SB-Version Englisch
ready for dispatch (only 1 article)
121,54 €

HDD Not much space required, these are networked machines
Samsung SpinPoint F4 320GB, SATA II (HD322GJ)
ready for dispatch
31,23 €

DVDR/W
Sony NEC Optiarc AD-7260S, SATA, Schwarz, bulk
ready for dispatch
15,79 €

Graphics - Or will on board do?
Gigabyte Radeon HD 5450 HyperMemory, 512MB DDR3, PCI-Express
ready for dispatch
32,79 €

CPU Cooler
Scythe Katana 3, nur für Intel-CPUs
ready for dispatch
18,03 €

Total = €605 incl. Delivery to ROI

Any advice on alternatives or cheaper/better options would be appreciated.

IrishMetalhead

well it depedns on what these business comps are for exactly to weather it needs a graphics card but more than likely unboard graphics is fine.
as for the cpu you can getan AMD Hex-Core fore the same price as that i5 dual core and would benifit you more in applications.
and finally for the psu you can get a amazon 450w for less and with a higher efficient so it defo would use alot less power than the other psu (remember psu's only draw the power they need not what it can pull altogether)

IrishMetalhead

I would recommend this alot more:
( I included a graphics card because the motherboard has no onboard video)

Jonny7

http://ireland.dell.com/ie/en/home/Desktops/inspiron-580/pd.aspx?refid=inspiron-580&s=dhs&cs=iedhs1&ref=dthp

669 euros, including windows 7, and delivery

The same exact same PC specced up on hardwareversand.de, with decent power supply and case + win 7 + 30 euro delivery comes to 548 euros.

So yes, there is a saving

PLUS, the i5 760, whilst being a great quad chip, is now dated. On hardwareversand.de you could spec up the absolute perfect 2D CAD machine (am only familiar with gaming, not sure what its needs are, check www.anandtech.com and choose bench to check various processors performance with that software)

You're prob gonna save at least 100 euros per machine, however I don't know what bulk savings Dell do, and I didn't check their website fully for any special offers right now. Also the warranty will be a little easier to handle with Dell than Germany perhaps.

IrishMetalhead

nah rma'in with hwvs is a piece of cake and unlike dell they won't try to fight you over it when you need to rma

prospect

Wow, thanks for taking the time for those replies guys.

Here are the minimum requirments for AutoCAD:
-Microsoft Windows 7 Enterprise, Ultimate, Professional or Home Premium (compare Windows 7 versions); Microsoft Windows Vista Enterprise, Business, or Ultimate (SP1 or later) (compare Windows Vista versions); or Microsoft Windows XP Professional (SP2 or later)
-AMD Athlon 64 with SSE2 technology, AMD Opteron® processor with SSE2 technology, Intel® Xeon® processor with Intel EM64T support and SSE2 technology, or Intel Pentium 4 with Intel EM64T support and SSE2 technology
-2 GB RAM
-2 GB free space for installation
-1,024 x 768 display resolution with true colour

Just a few points on what has been mentioned above, the primary use is 2D CAD drawings, so anything above what is listed in the min specs above will work, anything above will obviously be better, but without getting silly about it either.

Must be Win 7 Pro, networked machines.

An power efficient machine is important, so the advice on the PSU is much appreciated.

Even if the price is close to Dell, from what I can see the components are better, i.e. the cases and mainboards, fans and coolers. Also, the Dells are not as easily or cheaply upgraded, meaning the total cost of ownership is higher.

Warranties, surely AMD/Gigabyte/Corsair etc provide warranties equal or better than Dell. My experience with Dell is that they will replace a part fairly quickly, but only after spending ages trying to convince their support person that it is banjoed!


Finally, regarding the case. I just picked the cheapest case that had a decent sized fan, a bottom mounted PSU and reasonable cable management. Is there anything else I need to consider?

IrishMetalhead

in all honesty you should go with the one i specced out for you then it's perfect for all that but i would change the os to pro instead of home premium

Monotype

IrishMetalhead's system looks good.
I am thinking that you probably don't need a hexacore and perhaps consider AMD quad cores. I thought that the power consumption was greater on the X6s, but it's actually pretty much in line with the 9xx phenoms. Interestingly, the 840 has quite low power consumption which could be important across a lot of PCs.

I don't think that you'll need a graphics card. Pick a board with reasonable onboard GPU such as the Asrock 880GM-LE. Not exactly the most feature-laden board in some aspects, but it should do the job and it's cheaper than the other board.
Manufacturer link

Monotype

What happened to the 95W 1055Ts? HWV and scan used to sell them, I only see them on overclockers.co.uk for £170.

prospect

Okay, thanks for the replies.

Regarding the mainboard with onboard graphics, that sounds good to me.

However, I was kind of thinking an ATX board for space and ease of building and upgrading at a later date. Does that make sense or is it madness?

IrishMetalhead

nah matx boards are just as easy to work with the only real difference is less pci slots it will still fit in an atx case etc

Monotype

Building with ATX would be harder because you're trying to squeeze them in. On that board, there's two PCI slots and a PCI-E slot free. You probably won't use them, but you'd know yourself.
Most of the cheaper integrated graphics are mATX boards. You could get a decent ATX one for about €15 more.

Tea_Bag

i think a phenom x4 will be overkill tbh, you could save a whole bunch of coins if you get athlon X3's, or at the most athlon X4's no?

athlon X3's are going for ~€62 and phenom X4's around the ~€90 mark @15 machines that a big saving.

ScumLord

If your building this with the intention of upgrading it down the line then your motherboard choice should be a high priority.

Business isn't all that demanding on PCs, even 2D CAD isn't all that demanding but I would go above the minimum specs, their not a good target to set for yourself, the minimum specs can get you up and running but you don't want everyone waiting on their computer so get something beyond the recommended specs. That should still be below €600.

Maybe have a look back over the previous version of your software to get some idea of what hardware upgrades where necessary to run subsequent versions so you have some idea of what will need to be upgraded in the future.

We're also switching away from Dells at work, there's nothing to wrong with the business ones but seeing the state of the ones they let out to the average consumer their standards have gone through the floor.

prospect

Thanks for all the input guys,

Based on the advice here, I have come up with this configuration, your comments would be much appreciated:

Case
Thermaltake V3 Black Edition ohne Netzteil
ready for dispatch
36,25 €

Processor
AMD Athlon II X4 640 Box AM3
ready for dispatch
83,96 €

CPU Cooler
Xigmatek EP-CD901 Apache Cooler 92mm - LGA775/K8/AM2
ready for dispatch
9,16 €

MainBoard
Gigabyte GA-880GMA-UD2H, AMD 880G, AM3 mATX
ready for dispatch
86,03 €

Memory
4GB-Kit Corsair DDR3 PC1600 C9 Classic
ready for dispatch
37,82 €

PSU
Super-Flower Amazon 80Plus 450W
ready for dispatch
40,41 €

HDD
Samsung SpinPoint F3 250GB, SATA II (HD253GJ)
ready for dispatch
30,88 €

DVDR/W
Sony NEC Optiarc AD-7260S, SATA, Schwarz, bulk
ready for dispatch
15,30 €

O/S
MS Windows 7 Pro 64bit SB-Version Englisch
ready for dispatch (only 1 article)
121,54 €

Total = €491 incl VAT & Del.

IrishMetalhead

looking good, if i'm not mistaken this is still far cheaper then dell =]

prospect

Okay Folks,

Thanks for all your help, I went ahead with this build, I slightly upped the spec to what I think is a bit more future proof as I was given a €500 ex VAT budget.

I have attached a pic of the build.

I have one problem, I was supplied with this cooler, which is listed as being AM3 compatible, but for the life of me I cannot get it to attach. As you can see in the pic, I have the standard cooler on the cpu.
Am I doing something wrong, I just want to check before I e-mail HWVS for a replacement.

Thanks:
My first full build



Spec:
-Thermaltake V3
-MSI 890GXM-G65
-AMD Phenom II X4 840
-SuperFlower Amazon 450w
-8GB Corsair PC1600 C9 Classic
-WD Caviar Blue 500GB 6GB/s
-Sony DVDRW/Media Card Reader/Win 7 Pro 64bit

Moon54

That's a nice build, prospect.

As regards the heatsink, does it get too close to the RAM, or is it just hard to seat it?

What I usually do is to apply Thermal Compond to CPU, place heatsink directly onto CPU, keeping it held flat,
hook one end of spring and while keeping heatsink flat, press down to hook in the other side, (using your thumb).

Either way, the stock cooler would be perfectly fine for Business use.

prospect

Thanks Moon54,

Regarding the cooler,

when I sit it flat on the CPU chip, the plastic latches sit a half inch above the receiver clip built onto the mainboard.

There is not enough play or springyness in the latches to reach both clips unless I put a lot of force on them.

Moon54

Yeah, that sounds about right.
Some ones I've fitted have taken a good push to latch on,
more so than the stock cooler types.
It only works for me if one side is already hooked,
it's nearly impossible to push both sides at same time to latch on.

If you feel too much pressure is needed, I'd stick with the stock cooler,
it looks fine to me. It may even be better than the €9 one.

What kind of CPU temps have you got atm ?
Speccy will tell you it.

prospect

Speccy, thats cool, cheers.

Running at 20 at the minute, want to run some 3D CAD stuff on it tomorrow to see how it manages, as you said though, it should be fine with the stock cooler.