WOW and youngsters

Rev Hellfire

-Vega- wrote: »

Every time I log on to do something in a game, I always play for longer than I should, and I neglect other more important matters to do this. All I know is that from my experience so far, I would definitely have my child on a much better healthier and more social path than I've taken. I mean I turned out alright, fairly active social life and I work, but I still have dozens of regrets and most of them can be linked to me spending too much time connected to a game and disconnected from reality.

That's a very real risk, and to be honest its not particular to wow, he has a console which is also quite the time sink. And I do take your (and others) point that kids should be outside, something I strongly agree with. But like everything in life its about striking a balance.

I still have some concerns about the difficulty of the game (which was my real issue to begin with), but sure we'll see how it plays out.

-Vega-

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

That's a very real risk, and to be honest its not particular to wow, he has a console which is also quite the time sink. And I do take your (and others) point that kids should be outside, something I strongly agree with. But like everything in life its about striking a balance.

I still have some concerns about the difficulty of the game (which was my real issue to begin with), but sure we'll see how it plays out.

The one benefecial thing about a more difficult game is that there would be a chance that he wouldn't be capable of reaching the end game content. This would probably be a good thing as that's where the real competetive and addictive streak starts.

You start off at level 1 and it's a carefree hassle free enviroment, you do a quest or two, killing a few beast and gain some exeperience towards the next level. You get called for dinner, it's fine you log off and go.

At 85 you are constantly working towards getting that one sword that you need and as soon as you get it, then there is a very specific cloak you need..and once you have that .. there is a pair of epic pants..and once you have that blizzard release something making all of those items useless and you need to repeat the time consuming process all over again, and you like it.

If this is the case, what I would recommend if you must find the balance, is never upgrade from a trial account ^

Playboy

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Actually I hadn't, but I was/am more interested in the responses of those parents with kids and especially those who have kids who have played the game.

On the whole the majority of that set have reported no issues above and beyond playing any other video games.

Interestingly enough this reminds me of the scare which surrounded Dungeons and Dragons back in the day, people going crazy not been able to differentiate reality from the roleplay, etc. etc.

To be honest and without trying to be offensive I think that is an extremely naive view. There is no comparison with the D&D crap that was been spouted years ago. Countries like South Korea and China are facing real problems due to the prevelence of MMO addiction amongst their youth. In Sweden you can get out of National service due to video game addiction. There are many countries across the world where the addiction is being treated in similar ways to drugs, alcohol and gambling. And as I said earlier it is going to be added to the DSM on its next iteration .. you do not get in the DSM these days unless there is a real problem.

I'm not saying your kid is going to become addicted .. all I am saying is that exposing an impressionable young mind to the possibility of addcition is a needless risk. But alongside that as others have stated there are also social concerns .. you dont know who he may be grouping with or what people might be saying to him .. he could be easily bullied especially as people have short fuses and are not going have any patience with a 10 year old child.

papajimsmooth

I believe your son is the one prophesied to restore peace to Azeroth!

Nehaxak

You know, just because you might be or even are afraid you might be addicted to wow, or know someone that is - does not automatically assume that the same level of inability to break oneself away from a computer game would also apply to a child. Sure not all children are the same, or as headstrong and street smart as some others, same applies to adults.

Wow in all fairness, is really a kids game, no matter how much adults like myself try to think different to justify us playing it (at least it's not pokemon or some other crap, which some even adults would play ffs).

The reason it's become as a game, less of a grind and more casual friendly, in my opinion is down to it being marketed more toward youngsters.
If your child, like some adults, exhibits an addictive personality then for sure consider not allowing them to play as the game can be engrossing as it's vastly enjoyable once you get into it.
Otherwise I really do not see any problem with it at all and think people are blowing things way over the top - some of you almost sound like "old people" :eek:

Rev, the game is easy for kids these days, just explain to him the basics of it that he might not grasp straight away - the need to repair after deaths, selling crap in bags, what gear to keep and sell from drops and when he's a higher level, what to need or greed on in dungeons or whatever. Explain the stats on gear that he needs for his class, stuff like that.
Hunter is probably the easiest class to get to grips with.

Set up a guild for him so he doesn't keep getting invites or send him over to the Irish guild on Doomhammer, my son is in that too (though mostly plays his mage on another server) but they're a nice friendly bunch with a few other younger players in it too. My son has never had an issue in that guild, there's no weirdo's there from what I could see anyway

TheDoc

My jaw has dropped beyond the floor at some of the nonsense and scare mongering being spouted here, like its straight of Joe Duffy. Lets get some things straight.

Video Game Addiction

Hocus pocus. I havnt read a SHRED of genuine evidence or proof to show that an MMO, or Game, directly develops an addictive trait in an individual that does not already posses one.
Anything I've read has been about people who possess addictive personalities, henceforth obviously a game that provides endless possabilities will gobble up their time.

With sensible moderation and control, there is literally no issue.

Good parenting

None of my business, nor is it anyones but your own. My father used to sit with me and we would watch 18's sci fi movies like Terminator, Robocop, Aliens etc at a very young age. He would stop recording during gory bits and tell me " the Telly signal went". When I got to about 12 he started letting me watch them in full.

From a young age me and the old fella always played video games together. At the start it was simply so he could keep an eye on what the games were and how much I was playnig, then it turned into him loving to play them.

It is BETTER you take an active interest in what your child is playing and doing. Of course he should be active and play football, but then not every kid wants to, and in fairness not every kid can just make friends without troubles. And atleast on WoW , you know what he is doing.

Bullying, get for real

Your son may be subject to some bullying online, yeah, obviously. What difference is this to when he is on the road with his friends, or in school? We don't live in a cotton wool world as much as people want you to believe. He will get much harsher stuff said and done to him as he grows up, as we all well know because we had it ebfore.
School, hanging around with mates, its all ahead of him.

In WoW you have some control. Profanity filter works, it simply works. He wont see any profanity what so ever. As he is levelling, lets not forget most of the actual questing zones are empty these days, so he wont be encountering massive amounts of people.

You have COMPLETE control over the chat channels. You can remove him from General, Trade and any channel you want. You can create a private channel jsut for the two of you, that auto logs him in everytime he connects, and you two can chat away whilst playing.

You have COMPLETE control over what he sees on screen in text. So there is every possability that he wont read anything if you want, remebmer the bubbles for chat can be removed aswell.

Control and moderation

WoW and Battlenet has one of the best moderation controls in ANY game. You can specificy

• What time he can play during the day
• How many hours he can play a day
• How many hours a week
• Add exceptions for weekends etc
• With an authenticator, you control the account, he cannot log in without asking you

An hour or two an evening when he finishes his homework? It also gets him into a routine aswell, and a schedule, hardly a bad thing at a young age to teach some organisation.


Obviously everyone has different opinions and views. But I couldnt hold back reading this thread, that there was NO actual information for the OP, just scaremongering and crap being spouted. Nearly as if " we dont want more kids playing" which is bollox.

This is one of the few forums on boards that is genuinely informative and has a pretty decent helpful community and we should be doing that, this thread was a big letdown.

From my own experience , my father initially taking an itnerest in my gaming, then inadvertidly getting into gaming himself, was a great thing for us. From a very young age there is that bod thats jsut there.

And we regularly jump on games together for some multiplayer, and we will continue to do so for many years.

In saying that, might by hypocritical, but he wants my 10 day free trial and wants to start playing WoW with me and the guild, told him no cause he would literally "Cramp my style" so Rev the only thing you have to worry about is that you ruin his rep


Do let us know how things get on though, as it will probably be good information for others to come with the same question.

And if anyone knows how to get the misses into playing WoW, I'm all ears.

dyl10

No, unless you live on an oil rig or an army base or something.
I've played WoW on and off for years, I was able to stop playing when I needed to every time but I think letting your child at it could be a big mistake.

Children should be out playing on the streets or reading books or something, definitely not playing a game designed to be highly addictive, like WoW!

Playboy

TheDoc wrote: »

My jaw has dropped beyond the floor at some of the nonsense and scare mongering being spouted here, like its straight of Joe Duffy. Lets get some things straight.

Video Game Addiction

Hocus pocus. I havnt read a SHRED of genuine evidence or proof to show that an MMO, or Game, directly develops an addictive trait in an individual that does not already posses one.
Anything I've read has been about people who possess addictive personalities, henceforth obviously a game that provides endless possabilities will gobble up their time.

With sensible moderation and control, there is literally no issue.

Good parenting

None of my business, nor is it anyones but your own. My father used to sit with me and we would watch 18's sci fi movies like Terminator, Robocop, Aliens etc at a very young age. He would stop recording during gory bits and tell me " the Telly signal went". When I got to about 12 he started letting me watch them in full.

From a young age me and the old fella always played video games together. At the start it was simply so he could keep an eye on what the games were and how much I was playnig, then it turned into him loving to play them.

It is BETTER you take an active interest in what your child is playing and doing. Of course he should be active and play football, but then not every kid wants to, and in fairness not every kid can just make friends without troubles. And atleast on WoW , you know what he is doing.

Bullying, get for real

Your son may be subject to some bullying online, yeah, obviously. What difference is this to when he is on the road with his friends, or in school? We don't live in a cotton wool world as much as people want you to believe. He will get much harsher stuff said and done to him as he grows up, as we all well know because we had it ebfore.
School, hanging around with mates, its all ahead of him.

In WoW you have some control. Profanity filter works, it simply works. He wont see any profanity what so ever. As he is levelling, lets not forget most of the actual questing zones are empty these days, so he wont be encountering massive amounts of people.

You have COMPLETE control over the chat channels. You can remove him from General, Trade and any channel you want. You can create a private channel jsut for the two of you, that auto logs him in everytime he connects, and you two can chat away whilst playing.

You have COMPLETE control over what he sees on screen in text. So there is every possability that he wont read anything if you want, remebmer the bubbles for chat can be removed aswell.

Control and moderation

WoW and Battlenet has one of the best moderation controls in ANY game. You can specificy

• What time he can play during the day
• How many hours he can play a day
• How many hours a week
• Add exceptions for weekends etc
• With an authenticator, you control the account, he cannot log in without asking you

An hour or two an evening when he finishes his homework? It also gets him into a routine aswell, and a schedule, hardly a bad thing at a young age to teach some organisation.


Obviously everyone has different opinions and views. But I couldnt hold back reading this thread, that there was NO actual information for the OP, just scaremongering and crap being spouted. Nearly as if " we dont want more kids playing" which is bollox.

This is one of the few forums on boards that is genuinely informative and has a pretty decent helpful community and we should be doing that, this thread was a big letdown.

From my own experience , my father initially taking an itnerest in my gaming, then inadvertidly getting into gaming himself, was a great thing for us. From a very young age there is that bod thats jsut there.

And we regularly jump on games together for some multiplayer, and we will continue to do so for many years.

In saying that, might by hypocritical, but he wants my 10 day free trial and wants to start playing WoW with me and the guild, told him no cause he would literally "Cramp my style" so Rev the only thing you have to worry about is that you ruin his rep


Do let us know how things get on though, as it will probably be good information for others to come with the same question.

And if anyone knows how to get the misses into playing WoW, I'm all ears.

Seriously you need to get a clue .. Both of my posts I indicated that Video Game addiction will be added to the DSM on its next iteration. This does not happen without 'evidence' .. I studied psychology up to Masters level and there was a huge surge in both qualitative and quantative studies wrt to video game addiction and especially mmo addiction before I left the field about 4 years ago.

No one is saying that a particular kid will become addicted .. I think the general consensus is that if something is potentially so addictive then why risk it with a child. A child has far less coping mechanisms to deal with any compulsive behaviour or substance than an adult and therefore is more at risk to develop an issue. Just because you had a fun time playing games with your old man doesnt mean it will be the same for everyone. I knew plenty of teens who who smoke the odd joint with their father .. some developed issue, some didnt .. my take on it would be to let your child develop some sort of emotional maturity before you expose him.

I have been playing mmo's on and off for about 13/14 years .. which has been the whole of my adult life. I have seen enough sane and emotionally stable adults develop unhealthy addiction to mmo's that I would think its nothing more than insane to expose a child to that no matter what 'protections' Blizzard offer in the way of time restrictions or profanity filters.

Can you honestly say that you have had an addiction/dependency free mmo experience since you began playing? And if you cant then what the hell are you talking about?

TheDoc

If I wanted to stop playing wow tomorrow, I would, easy as. I don't because I choose to play.

But I don't have to go into my personal play habbits. I think your just scare mongering to be totally honest, because I've reviewed the proposals submitted to the DSM and you may need to correct your original statement

Inclusion of it as a psychological disorder has been proposed and rejected for the next version of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM)

Rejected on the fact the compulsive and addictive tendancies are not developed by the game, or encouraged by the games, but are instead developed and inherent to individual, and in all cases submitted, the subject experienced Addictive tendancies before being subject to any type of video game.

So fair play for having a Master ( important no idea why) and offering up your opinion, thats all fine and welcomed and applauded. But your tone comes across as abrasive and down right scaremongering, to a point where obviously even though you have "said" to be involved in the area, the DSM have rejected the proposals because it is in short, a load of pony.

I dont want to turn this into a silly debate or " my education vs your education" but I'm still yet to see any valid reports, studies or evidence to show a game can cause genuine addictiveness.

And yes, there is alot of cases in Asia, but if you have ever been to most countries in Asia, youd understand why alot of them want to sink time into video games : /

-Vega-

Jesus Doc, how long have you been playing? "I choose to play". God I've heard that about so many things, I choose to gamble, I choose to take yokes 3 times a week, I choose to do the bad thing because I could quit tomorrow if I wanted.

You couldn't quit tomorrow. You wouldn't know what to do with all the new time, constantly being reminded your guild is advancing without you and you are getting left behind, any odd reason and you'd reactivate.

I know countless people who have 'quit' wow and JUST 'come back for Wrath content'... OH Ill JUST see what the cata content is like ..for 30 hours a week.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=89868

Open a thread, hold a vote , don't phrase it funny or give too much insight, just say .. are you addicted to playing games .. or do you find gaming addictive, or better again.. do you regret sinking so many hours into games. Would love to see the results

TheDoc

-Vega- wrote: »

Jesus Doc, how long have you been playing? "I choose to play". God I've heard that about so many things, I choose to gamble, I choose to take yokes 3 times a week, I choose to do the bad thing because I could quit tomorrow if I wanted.

You couldn't quit tomorrow. You wouldn't know what to do with all the new time, constantly being reminded your guild is advancing without you and you are getting left behind, any odd reason and you'd reactivate.

I know countless people who have 'quit' wow and JUST 'come back for Wrath content'... OH Ill JUST see what the cata content is like ..for 30 hours a week.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=89868

Open a thread, hold a vote , don't phrase it funny or give too much insight, just say .. are you addicted to playing games .. or do you find gaming addictive, or better again.. do you regret sinking so many hours into games. Would love to see the results

I'm playing WoW since alpha invite. I have taken probably in total about 4 months of a break.

I don't really feel the need to explain my playstyle in detail, but I play WoW because its genuinelly the most interesting and fun game I've ever played, I've made alot of friends etc so thats why im on.

Cost wise I've spent over €2500 on WoW since the start. Thats the equivalant of 50 console titles in the space of 6 years, pretty sure most console gamers have spent more and bought more then fifty games in 6 1/2 years.

But if something came up that required me to leave wow, no big swing. Be **** that I couldnt play the game i love, but I wouldnt be having a spaz attack about it.

And tbh Sotor may very welll pull me away from wow depending on how good it is, atleast for a motnh anyway

Nehaxak

TheDoc wrote: »

And if anyone knows how to get the misses into playing WoW, I'm all ears.

Tauren, women love them for some reason, must be the whole cow thing.
My missus would still be playing (Tauren shaman) but I haven't got around to building her a desktop from old bits and pieces I have around. We used to play wow together a lot, even raided together (Molten Core, way back when).

Playboy

TheDoc wrote: »

If I wanted to stop playing wow tomorrow, I would, easy as. I don't because I choose to play.

But I don't have to go into my personal play habbits. I think your just scare mongering to be totally honest, because I've reviewed the proposals submitted to the DSM and you may need to correct your original statement



Rejected on the fact the compulsive and addictive tendancies are not developed by the game, or encouraged by the games, but are instead developed and inherent to individual, and in all cases submitted, the subject experienced Addictive tendancies before being subject to any type of video game.

So fair play for having a Master ( important no idea why) and offering up your opinion, thats all fine and welcomed and applauded. But your tone comes across as abrasive and down right scaremongering, to a point where obviously even though you have "said" to be involved in the area, the DSM have rejected the proposals because it is in short, a load of pony.

I dont want to turn this into a silly debate or " my education vs your education" but I'm still yet to see any valid reports, studies or evidence to show a game can cause genuine addictiveness.

And yes, there is alot of cases in Asia, but if you have ever been to most countries in Asia, youd understand why alot of them want to sink time into video games : /

You have reviewed the proposals? Last time it was looked at afaik was in 2007 and rejected due to lack of research at the time and not due to it being 'scaremongering;... It is being looked at again due to the increase in research in the area since 2007 .. As I said I left 4 years ago and there was a huge upsurge in interest in the area due to it being put forward for the DSM and treatment programs that different countries were putting togther to deal with pervasive problems amongst the youth populations. There are issues with psychology/ psychiatry wrt defining addiction in general .. there were huge issues with getting gambling addiction defined in the DSM and in fact is still not considered specifically an 'addiction'. More than likely when Video game addiction is included in the DSM it will not be included as an addiction per se .. but as some sort of pathology or behavioural problem.

And my tone was abrasive because I dont like when someone tries to rubbish the valid opinions and experiences of people by calling them nonsense and scaremongering. Its a little bit hilarious to be honest coming from someone who has sunk 7+ years in one video game on a forum where the top stickied thread is 'addictiveness'. People always think they can stop their compulsive behaviour if they want to .. its such a cliche to even make a statement like that. You ever hear the AA mantra of the first step is admitting you have a problem? People are replying to this thread to give sincere answers to someone who asked for advice for their child. Who on earth do you think comes on to a WoW forum to scaremonger? Why would I as an mmo player for many years want to frighten anyone off without a valid reason?

Drakar

I really dont think you should encourage children to play. I cant imagine there will be very many people who in their 80s will be saying they wished they'd played more WoW, but I'd say there will be a few who wished they'd played less.

That said, Nehaxak's son played secretly for him a few times in raids and people didnt notice (not sure whether thats a compliment for the son or whether it says something about the man himself :P)

Jimbob 83

Playboy wrote: »

You have reviewed the proposals? Last time it was looked at afaik was in 2007 and rejected due to lack of research at the time and not due to it being 'scaremongering;... It is being looked at again due to the increase in research in the area since 2007 .. As I said I left 4 years ago and there was a huge upsurge in interest in the area due to it being put forward for the DSM and treatment programs that different countries were putting togther to deal with pervasive problems amongst the youth populations. There are issues with psychology/ psychiatry wrt defining addiction in general .. there were huge issues with getting gambling addiction defined in the DSM and in fact is still not considered specifically an 'addiction'. More than likely when Video game addiction is included in the DSM it will not be included as an addiction per se .. but as some sort of pathology or behavioural problem.

And my tone was abrasive because I dont like when someone tries to rubbish the valid opinions and experiences of people by calling them nonsense and scaremongering. Its a little bit hilarious to be honest coming from someone who has sunk 7+ years in one video game on a forum where the top stickied thread is 'addictiveness'. People always think they can stop their compulsive behaviour if they want to .. its such a cliche to even make a statement like that. You ever hear the AA mantra of the first step is admitting you have a problem? People are replying to this thread to give sincere answers to someone who asked for advice for their child. Who on earth do you think comes on to a WoW forum to scaremonger? Why would I as an mmo player for many years want to frighten anyone off without a valid reason?

Because the person in question is 10 years old

Dustaz

Playboy wrote: »

MMO addiction is real and will be included in the next version of the DSM. Link

Next time you provide a link to back up your statement, you should ensure it actually backs up your point and doesn't directly refute it as yours does.

There is no formal diagnosis of video game addiction in current medical or psychological literature. Inclusion of it as a psychological disorder has been proposed and rejected for the next version of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders

Drakar

I always think there is a bit of an overreaction to this type of question. People having strong religious beliefs can cause them to kill people, but most people wouldn't be on for banning religion. Similarly, alcohol, watching tv, etc can all be shown to have really negative effects on some people, but again "society" doesn't seem to exibit the same zeal to stamp them out.

That being said, I think if one made a list of the potential good results of having a young child gaming ([not an attempt to form a definitive list, and not everyone will experience all of these] eg develop teamwork\spacial\economic skills, form of entertainment, shared experience with your son, ability to score with that hawt night elf chick in university etc), and a list of the potential negative results ([again not definitive and not everyone will encounter the same] tiredness\sleep problems, physical health impacts, reduction in ability to socially relate with people etc), one might find that there are other activities a child could be introduced to that may accomplish the same intended benefits, but have less of the potential negatives.

F00t13f4n

Have you played WoW? Just want to know if you have personal experience, or just researching it.

My opinion: It will take weeks to get to max level, and when he gets there he'll be trying to get into dungeons with anonymous jerks from the internet. An MMO is very different to any other type of game - console and single player PC games have a definite goal, in terms of completing missions, etc. An MMO by its nature doesn't have any of these - the objective is to get you to spend more time online. You say you don't do tantrums in your house - get ready for them!

I wouldn't let a 10-year old play WoW, but he's not my child.

Rev Hellfire

F00t13f4n wrote: »

Have you played WoW? Just want to know if you have personal experience, or just researching it.

I've seen the adverts I'm aware mr. T is in it.

syklops

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

I've seen the adverts I'm aware mr. T is in it.

isn't?

I tire of this thread. You came on here asking a serious question. Most people have replied seriously. However, it seems like you came here with your mind already made up, and now the thread continues for your own lulz.

When the issue of game addiction came up, you pushed it aside and said you weren't worried about that, but what did concern you was that the game might be too difficult. I suspect we have different priorities.

Rev Hellfire

syklops wrote: »

When the issue of game addiction came up, you pushed it aside and said you weren't worried about that, but what did concern you was that the game might be too difficult. I suspect we have different priorities.

I'm sorry the question I asked doesn't meet with your approval :rolleyes:

syklops

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

I'm sorry the question I asked doesn't meet with your approval :rolleyes:

You asked:

I've been pondering letting the son and heir play wow, so I'm wondering do people think its really suitable for a 10 year old ? Casual PvE play, anyone else doing it/done it with their kids ?

You asked of WoW's suitability for a 10 year old boy. You did not ask would it be too hard. Many people on this thread, myself included gave serious answers to what we thought the answer to your question was.

Surely you can understand why we get annoyed when you push aside our responses, or reply flippantly or sarcastically.

Drakar

Probably a bit of confusion came from the original post

tldr version:

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

I'm wondering do people think its really suitable for a 10 year old ?

Probably no

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

the only issue is the suitability of the game in terms of difficulty for someone that age.

Most computer literate 10 year olds could probably learn the mechanics quickly


Now lets not fight!

Rev Hellfire

syklops wrote: »

You asked of WoW's suitability for a 10 year old boy. You did not ask would it be too hard. Many people on this thread, myself included gave serious answers to what we thought the answer to your question was.

And I refined my question to the area of difficultly once I had I set stated that in my view addiction wasn't an issue.

syklops wrote: »

Surely you can understand why we get annoyed when you push aside our responses, or reply flippantly or sarcastically.

Actually no I can't, that fact that I disagree with your opinion is not a reason to get annoyed. Yes perhaps the opening question may have been to open ended, but that was addressed.

Jimbob 83

As someone else said you came here with your mind made up, let us know how you get on, i am genuinely interested to know

syklops

/me unfollows thread

copeyhagen

im clean of wow now, keep your son that way too!!

and it would probably be too hard aswell yes

Nehaxak

My son hasn't played wow for a whole week, got the regular email from blizzard showing his game time (which was zero).

Instead he's been kicking ass in Black Ops on the PS3 !

I can't play without a mouse and keyboard kids these days...

copeyhagen

black ops is worse, going around skinning dogs and skinning humans!!!

Drakar

Is that playtime email coming because you activated parental controls? I'm glad I wasnt getting those when I was playing or it would have made me cry :P