Sheep

Overheal

We hear this a lot, in reference to people. Moses was a Shepphard and all that. Bla.

But thinking about it is it that some people are pre-disposed to be sheep or is it triggered by environment that some people will "switch on" and take more commanding roles while others will content to follow. Many species will similarly adapt roles based on circumstances. Even those frogs we only heard about on Jurassic Park with that superpower to change their sex in a single-gender environment.

It's a demeaning term that I avoid using but is it truthful?

I'd say it's determined more by environmental factors than it is by a predisposition.

Time for some pop-psychology. I StumbleUpon'd this article last night. It talks about 5 psychological experiments which supposedly show the true nature of most humans. A couple of them are pretty relevant to the question of whether or not some people will just, as you say, be sheep.

Overheal

Im guilty of number 4. I saw a brish fire in someone's ditch. I was on my way out of state and wasnt too sure where I was but I thought about calling 911 and thought differently of it when I saw another driver already pulled over a couple hundred feet ahead, looking back at it. I figured he was already about to. But I still wonder if I should have called it in myself.

Coriolanus

I'm reading Zimbardos book about his experience with the prison experiment and from reading his personal reflections on the start, the entire thing has scarred him. He's refused to write about it at all until quite recently.

drunkmonkey

I see this demonstrated in shops all the time, you can have 4 counters with 4 staff but everyone is queuing behind one person at one checkout. I get a bit mad and think to myself what a shower of sheep.

I walk straight up to an empty counter and pay for my goods and leave, I don't even look back to see the mad faces but always some brave sole sees what I just done and does the same. Then the shop starts working properly again and the tellers don't have to shout up to the other end of the shop"Next Sheep Please".

Does that make me a Sheppard?:)

Personally I think there's leaders and followers(sheep) in every activity, some times I might bite my lip and take the role of the sheep. So no I don't think it's built into people but their environment, job, lifestyle has a big impact on the chances of you becoming a sheep.

TheHatter

Thank you for posting this profoundly central question.

People are sheep. One only has to look at my Anti-TV thread for that. But if you want academia, Robert Cialdini concluded in his book about compliance that "Social Proof" is the most powerful factor in influencing peoples behavior. This is to say, if people see other people doing something, they "jump off a cliff" as well.

What I would like to emphasize:

It is not that "Some" people are sheep. It is that 99 per cent of people are sheep. In other words, people are mindless zombies who will follow whatever the people infront are doing.

The exceptions, in my experience, are people who travelled constantly when they were kids. With such independent minds, they had to develop their own judgement, as it is the only thing they can trust.

Good topic. Thank you, Overheal.

flutterflye

By 'Predisposed' do you mean genetic/biological and all that?

I would say yes.

I would think that in this particular instance, it is more nature than nurture.

A naturally creative and critical thinker is more likely to question rules and norms no matter what sociological background they come from.

slowburner

Overheal wrote: »

We hear this a lot, in reference to people. Moses was a Shepphard and all that. Bla.

But thinking about it is it that some people are pre-disposed to be sheep or is it triggered by environment that some people will "switch on" and take more commanding roles while others will content to follow. Many species will similarly adapt roles based on circumstances. Even those frogs we only heard about on Jurassic Park with that superpower to change their sex in a single-gender environment.

It's a demeaning term that I avoid using but is it truthful?

Yes it's truthful, but not for all people at all times. Some people are natural leaders, some people are natural followers. But then everyone can be a leader or a follower to a different degree, depending on the circumstances. I think the degree to which we fit into either category is very much a matter of environmental influence rather then genetic pre-disposition.
Theoretically, we can be born to be sheep to whatever extent, but it is the environment which determines the degree of sheepishness.
There are advantages to being a sheep. You are absolved from taking responsibilty for your actions if you are a sheep - "I was just following orders". The infamous Milgram experiment is worth having a look at in relation to this. Armies, religions, companies and institutions could not function if everyone was a leader.
Like most human characteristics, the answer is not yes or no - it's yes and no and sometimes and maybe and it depends, and.....what was the question again?

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

"While Genovese's neighbors were vilified by the article, "Thirty-Eight onlookers who did nothing" is a misconception. The article begins:

"For more than half an hour thirty-eight respectable, law-abiding citizens in Queens watched a killer stalk and stab a woman in three separate attacks in Kew Gardens."

The lead is dramatic but factually inaccurate. None of the witnesses observed the attacks in their entirety. Because of the layout of the complex and the fact that the attacks took place in different locations, no witness saw the entire sequence of events. Most only heard portions of the incident without realizing its seriousness, a few saw only small portions of the initial assault, and no witnesses directly saw the final attack and rape in an exterior hallway, which resulted in Genovese's death.[1] Additionally, after the initial attack punctured her lungs (leading to her eventual death from asphyxiation), it is unlikely that she was able to scream at any volume."

It appears that the Kitty Genovese case that is mentioned is exaggerated.

Nulty

I would say no. People are not predisposed to be sheep. "People" are complex but social animals and conflict does not come naturally to most people. In a world of specialisation where everyone is supposed to know what they are doing but not much about what everyone else is doing leads along with our educational systems has led out society to produce sheep. Given the encouragement and belief that they can make a difference I think people would not act like sheep. Its the constant condescending and under valuing of citizens by people in positions of power who weaken the will of people.

Tzar Chasm

bang goes the theory is doing an episode on this topic now, it'll probably be up on the BBC iPlayer later.

nyarlothothep

I think the question invites a specific answer, by comparing humans to a less intelligent animal the answer of yes is encouraged. It's a misanthropic position to begin with which reflects a dissolusionment or bitterness with humans in general. I would say the question doesn't take into account the underlying reasons for conforming. What about people who conform but don't agree with the act. What if it's not 99% of people that are conforming purely to fit in but something like 1% who lead, 29% who follow, 40% who don't agree necessarily or only agree with parts of the manifesto but conform anyway to escape punishment or who just couldn't be bothered with the whole circus, and 30% who are open dissidents. What about conformity through silence? When you have a vocal minority who engage in violent social tactics to assert their dominance those who don't speak up aren't necessarily conforming in their minds. What if people are critically conforming? Group power is the most powerful kind of power there is, just because everyone joins in a slogan chant doesn't automatically make them sheep, they may in fact be aware of their conformity with a specific objective in mind, that is hardly sheep like behaviour. I don't think people are sheep because the question is flawed to begin with.