Facebook & non existent fathers.

cynder

My brotehr had a son when he was 16 and never had contact with him (mother wanted him to have nothing to do with the child as she dumped him and got together with another guy 2 weeks before the baby was born)

My brother later moved to the uk

Anyway my brother joined facebook and made friends with people he knew in the area that his child was born. last week he got a message of his son now 13, he is stumped and doesnt know what to say or do (he is over teh moon that his son made contact), my mom has also added her grandson as a friend and is having regular contact via facebook. She hopes to meet him later this year.



I wanted to give some fathers who have kids they have never met a little hope that one day their kid might come looking for them.

Fittle

Op, I don't think a 13yr old is emotionally ready to communicate with his estranged dad via facebook, do you?

Has your brother tried to get in touch with the mother?

She was also very young I would imagine, and could hopefully have matured and only have her sons best interests at heart.

I appreciate that your brother is delighted, but I think he should really approach this through the other parent.

My own brother had a son 18yrs ago - similar situation to your brother - and I found him on FB last year. I had no clue what he had been told about my brother, or even if he had been told - so out of respect for their situation, I also found his mother and sent her a message.

She asked that I didn't contact my nephew just yet, as he was doing his leaving cert at the time - I've left it quite open but she has never gotten back to me.

Anyway, good luck to your brother, but if things are to work out for him, I wouldn't be communicating with the 13yr old just yet. Just my opinion.

problemchimp

Nice story, hope it works out for both of them. First time I've heard anything really positive from facebook. Normally it's people telling you what they had for lunch, pointless campaigns or bullying.

metrovelvet

Hmnnn.... be careful. Your brother and mother have no legal rights to go anywhere near the child,, they are essentially strangers to him. I agree with Fittle on this.

This will not bode well without the other parents' support.

cynder

It was his 13 year old son that contacted him not the other way round. He said that his mom always said his dad was a nice guy but they were too young. He asked his mom if was ok to contact my brother and she said it was ok. She is not on facebook herself but his cousins and aunt are, there is no way to contact the mother (unless he asks his son but i doubt very much he will want to talk to her).


When is any child emotionally ready to contact their estranged parent? Better sooner than later.

cynder

metrovelvet wrote: »

Hmnnn.... be careful. Your brother and mother have no legal rights to go anywhere near the child,, they are essentially strangers to him. I agree with Fittle on this.

This will not bode well without the other parents' support.

They are no where near him in fact they are in a different country, my mom hopes to meet him later this year but his mom will be there too. jeez they would never meet him on his own that would be asking for trouble.


By the way the son talks he has his mothers approval.

Fittle

grindelwald wrote: »

When is any child emotionally ready to contact their estranged parent? Better sooner than later.

Look, my own son never met his dad so I am looking at this from his mothers point of view if I'm honest.

Perhaps it's the medium of FB/internet contact that gave me the 'heebee-jeebees' when I read your post.

I know your brother is delighted, but as an adult yourself, do you not think 13 is very impressionable for this initial contact via FB with his father and his granny, neither of whom he's ever met?

'By the way the son talks he has his mothers approval.'

Has anyone actually spoken to the mother??

My apologies anyway, I know this isn't a 'problem' that you've posted and I don't mean to treat it as one..best of luck to your brother and his son - I genuinely hope it all works out for them.

January

To be honest, I agree with the above posters and if it was anybody I was close to I'd be telling them to get in contact with the mother.

A lot of 13 year olds talk like they have the consent of their parent/guardian when they do something, doesn't necessarily mean they do and it could mean trouble for your brother and mother if the mother was not in agreement to this and finds out about it.

Butterflylove

While Im on the same page as yourself Fittle I would presume the Mother would actually be monitior the FB anyway?

I know my own sister does through the email notifications, with my niece who is also 13, it gave my niece the privacy of having 'her' facebook with my sister knowing excalty what is going behind the scenes if you get me?


I would it hard to believe that even his aunts etc would not notice the addition of the grandmother and brother,

Maybe get in contact with the Aunt?

cynder

his added my brother as his dad and my mom as grandmother. so it would be hard not to notice, by anyone checking his facebook page. Facbook Its the only contact they can have as they live in different countries, doubt very much they will go down the skype route.

You cant blame the lad for wanting to get in contact with his dad, his had at least 2 step dads already.

metrovelvet

I suppose Im very cynical about facebook, its so surface and no depth to it ... seems like a weird way to embark on a relationship.

implausible

metrovelvet wrote: »

I suppose Im very cynical about facebook, its so surface and no depth to it ... seems like a weird way to embark on a relationship.

It is, however, a good way to get in contact with people you've lost touch with and the 'depth' surely depends on the people using it. A lot of people use the instant messaging instead of texting and the private messages instead of emailing. The only problem I would personally have is if all the contact is public on the child's wall. In the past, the young fella would've looked up the phonebook or found an address. Facebook just makes it easier for him to establish contact. I don't think the medium is the issue here.

Fittle

Butterflylove wrote: »

While Im on the same page as yourself Fittle I would presume the Mother would actually be monitior the FB anyway?

I woudln't presume anything.

I know some 10yr olds on FB who's parents don't monitor them - in fact only yesterday, I had to ring a friend of mine to tell her her 10yr old was 'friending' some right oddballs. My friend hadn't a clue!

If this mother hasn't got a FB account, I would imagine she isn't computer literate and probably isn't aware of how FB works.

That's a bit disengenuous of you to comment OP that the lad has had 2 stepdads already. If that girl was pregnant at 16, that means she's had two boyfriends in 11yrs. I understand that she has a child to consider, but it's like you're judging the mother when you know little about her, other than what her hormonal 13yr old has told his long-lost father.

And when you say that FB is the only way to contac him, there is such a thing as an address and a phone number to speak to him and his mother:rolleyes:

RedXIV

If I'm allowed to play the devil's advocate here,

I've noticed, purely on an academic note, but it appears to be the single mothers here which are the most aggressive here against contact. An interesting observation I found.

A modern 13yr old boy can actually be quite techy savvy and while I can imagine that many people would be worried on the psychological implications of meeting his paternal family, I'd have to say, I believe Facebook is a great way to do it. It means that they don't have to be anywhere near each other, if it feels wrong, he can simply block the family and through searching through thier pages, he can get a feel for who his family really are.

Obviously, it would be better that his mother knew this was all going on but I don't believe that she should be the only point of contact etc, especially considering how frustrating it would be for someone without a facebook page to get in touch when the child, who added his father, is clearly keen on learning more about his family.

Best of luck with this OP, hope it all turns out well

Fittle

By single mothers you are referring to me I assume? Nowhere have I been aggressive first of all.

Secondly, I am all for children knowing their fathers! 100%.

But you have said it yourself that it would be better if the child's mother knew about this and that the father made direct contact with an impressionable child, through the mother.

The child is 13.

Facebook is great and can be used in a very positive manner in many situations.

It will be great for this child to keep in touch with his father via FB in the future.

But as a first point of contact?

RedXIV

Fittle wrote: »

By single mothers you are referring to me I assume? Nowhere have I been aggressive first of all.

Secondly, I am all for children knowing their fathers! 100%.

But you have said it yourself that it would be better if the child's mother knew about this and that the father made direct contact with an impressionable child, through the mother.

The child is 13.

Facebook is great and can be used in a very positive manner in many situations.

It will be great for this child to keep in touch with his father via FB in the future.

But as a first point of contact?

Actually it was Metrovelvet that sparked the connection

When i say it would be better for the mother to be involved, I'm thinking more of keep her in loop of whats happening, not let her dictate what happens. My stance possibly would change if the boy hadn't actively sought his father but at this moment in time, he's made his choice and it should be respected. I can't imagine the boy added his father without going over it in his head a few times at least, it's probably been analyzed (as best a 13yr old can ) as much as possible.

If not facebook as a first point of contact, what would you suggest? I think its a great medium that has been purposely designed to be a social tool.

Fittle

I know a few 13yr old boys and analysis is not something they do;)

I'm just thinking of what's going on in that boys head - he's only a child - we have no idea as to his level of maturity, can you imagine the pictures he's building up of his father in his head???

From what the OP has said, and even though I've defended the mother, the boy doesn't seem to have much guidance in his life and to allow him to contact his father through fb as a first point of contact (even if the mother did allow it at the start, which I doubt) is just not right on so many levels.

As I said, if a relationship is developed between him and his dad, that's great, and at that point FB is a great way to keep in touch..but honestly, imagine what's going on in that lads head with no one to guide him through his emotions about actually finding his dad in the first point. If his dad misses a fb message (for example) is he thinking 'He's rejecting me again'...If his dad doesn't write back to him quick enough, is he thinking 'Actually my mam was right, he doesn't love me at all...' (if that's what the mam has told him)...etc. We've all seen many, many posts on PI about FB and the ramifications of missed messages (will I send a message/why didn't he write back/will I add her as a friend) and the angst that ADULTS go through over it..can you image being a 13yr old?

And apologies, I thought you were refering to me as I was the only one mentioned about my own son not meeting his dad.

cynder

RedXIV wrote: »

If I'm allowed to play the devil's advocate here,

I've noticed, purely on an academic note, but it appears to be the single mothers here which are the most aggressive here against contact. An interesting observation I found.

A modern 13yr old boy can actually be quite techy savvy and while I can imagine that many people would be worried on the psychological implications of meeting his paternal family, I'd have to say, I believe Facebook is a great way to do it. It means that they don't have to be anywhere near each other, if it feels wrong, he can simply block the family and through searching through thier pages, he can get a feel for who his family really are.

Obviously, it would be better that his mother knew this was all going on but I don't believe that she should be the only point of contact etc, especially considering how frustrating it would be for someone without a facebook page to get in touch when the child, who added his father, is clearly keen on learning more about his family.

Best of luck with this OP, hope it all turns out well

That's the way we see it, he is obviously looking for a father figure as he has had 2 that i know of that gave him brothers and sisters and then left, he know who his brothers and sister dads are but he had no way of knowing his own. As least this way he can see who his dad is, he can see pictures and chat and can know where he came from but still its early days.


From what ive been told he is on a red card at school (? what that means). He also sent a message saying that he though my brother had forgotten about him, at least now he knows that wasnt the case, they were both young and things were complicated.

Thanks for all the replys, its good to see it from two ends of the stick.

RedXIV

Just to clear up, i wasn't attacking single moms, I have an enormous respect for anyone raising kids and to do it on your own is an amazing achievement.


Just in case people think I'm a horrible git or anything

liliq

I have to say- as long as the child is being truthful about his mother being ok with contact with the biological father, Facebook is a pretty good platform for contact. What 13 year old boy now writes letters or has money to be topping up phones for regular texting (even if you top up enough to get free texts, these are only texts to mobiles in the same country)?
Facebook allows for as personal or impersonal contact depending on what each party is most comfortable with and also for real time conversation without having to speak on a phone (most kids I know hate doing that!) and without having to meet in person, which as the OP mentioned, they are in different countries, so that would be difficult anyway.
Facebook is the platform that so many young people and teenagers are very comfortable communicating though- they know how to use it, how to prevent any unwanted contact, how to make their profile "private" and limit who sees what themselves. As someone else mentioned, they are very "tech savvy".

LegacyUser

Honestly Grindlewald, if your brother really wanted to make contact with his son without upsetting his sons mother, he would find a way. The ball is in his court surely he could send his ex a letter filling her in on the situation and asking her to facilate the relationship. If he has no address for her he could contact one of her family members through facebook asking them to pass on a message. If this is something he wants he will do it. At the very least he needs to acknowledge his son and the contact he has made, it would be very hurtful to the boy if his father decides to ignore his approach. Best of luck.

cynder

I see what you mean, he has replied to his son and the chat is very minimum, nothing to nosy. The son also gave my brother his home address (my brother asked for it so he could send cards and letters) but he asked if first if it was ok with his sons mom, two days later the son got in contact to say it was fine with his mom and gave him the address.

The mother was the one who stopped his original relationship with his son as when he was born she said it wasn't his it was her new fellas who she was only going out with for 2 weeks and the new fella went along with it (thats 16 years olds for you) seems like she has matured and came to her senses. Also to say the boy is turning 14 very soon.

I dont want to go slagging of the boys mother (there are reasons i cant stand her and think its best my brother has little to do with her) but having said that 14 years later she should have matured and fingers crossed she is a nicer person.

Fittle

With respect OP, we have all matured since we were 16. And most of us weren't pregnant then.

He shouldn't have taken the word of a 13yr old that his mother agreed with this. Maybe she did, and maybe the boy is telling the truth.

But as an adult, your brother should be the one thinking this through - he should be the one making the right decisions here, not the 13yr old.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I sincerely hope this works out for your brother, I really do, but facebook contact with your 13yr old estranged son who you have never met before might not be something that would help to build the relationship for them.

If he has their address, he should write to the mother and take it from there. The child is a minor. Legally, he is a stranger to that child and really shouldn't be communicating with him without the consent of his mother.

metrovelvet

^ He is not just legally a stranger, he is a stranger in all senses of it and no one is easy with adult strangers in communicado with their kids.

K-9

Does he have a contact address or phone number for the mother?

Fittle

The OP has said he has a postal address for them...'The son also gave my brother his home address (my brother asked for it so he could send cards and letters) but he asked if first if it was ok with his sons mom, two days later the son got in contact to say it was fine with his mom and gave him the address.'

K-9

grindelwald wrote: »

It was his 13 year old son that contacted him not the other way round. He said that his mom always said his dad was a nice guy but they were too young. He asked his mom if was ok to contact my brother and she said it was ok. She is not on facebook herself but his cousins and aunt are, there is no way to contact the mother (unless he asks his son but i doubt very much he will want to talk to her).


When is any child emotionally ready to contact their estranged parent? Better sooner than later.

grindelwald wrote: »

I see what you mean, he has replied to his son and the chat is very minimum, nothing to nosy. The son also gave my brother his home address (my brother asked for it so he could send cards and letters) but he asked if first if it was ok with his sons mom, two days later the son got in contact to say it was fine with his mom and gave him the address.

The mother was the one who stopped his original relationship with his son as when he was born she said it wasn't his it was her new fellas who she was only going out with for 2 weeks and the new fella went along with it (thats 16 years olds for you) seems like she has matured and came to her senses. Also to say the boy is turning 14 very soon.

I dont want to go slagging of the boys mother (there are reasons i cant stand her and think its best my brother has little to do with her) but having said that 14 years later she should have matured and fingers crossed she is a nicer person.

Thought I'd read it wrong.

I'd say a phone number for the mother would be next as the Mum isn't on Facebook and it is in another country.

Things seem to be moving anyway so I can't imagine why she'd have a problem.

The Corinthian

RedXIV wrote: »

When i say it would be better for the mother to be involved, I'm thinking more of keep her in loop of whats happening, not let her dictate what happens.

Ideally the mother can be a positive 'guide' to any communication. She is, as custodian, best placed to know the emotions and maturity of the child and to act as support to the child throughout the process.

However, I say ideally because it really comes down to any ulterior motives or agendas that the mother may have. She may want the father not to have anything to do with the child for purely selfish reasons or feel that the father should 'pay' to have contact or that contact with the child should go through her because it's really about contact with her and not the child.

This can result in a blatant blocking of contact or that the conditions of contact are purposely designed to be unreasonable or even impossible - so that she can then block or limit contact under the pretext that he has failed to adhere to them.

Legally while he is a 'stranger', it is not illegal for him to talk to a child. It can be illegal is some jurisdictions (e.g. UK) to do so if the contact constitutes 'sexual grooming', but this would not apply in these cases (and if it did, there would be good reason to block contact). She could get a court order to stop him, but to do so she would have to have good reason to do so.

In the case of grindelwald's brother, I think he should try to bring her into the loop, as she may have mellowed over time. Nonetheless, he should also set up an alternative form of communication between his son and himself, should she choose to block or strangle contact. He should also consult with a solicitor on how much contact he can have directly as well as the option of seeking access through the courts.

However, without the mother's involvement, he should be ten times more careful not to cause more harm than good to his son. If he even suspects that he will be unable to sustain regular contact, then he may have to step back for his son's well-being. He also should take care not to vilify the mother - she may be the reason that he's not around, may have already been unfairly vilified him, and his son will eventually figure that out, but at 13 it would cause more harm than good to 'set the record straight'.

He may despise what she's done, and she may deserve it, but a child should grow up to love both his parents and not be taught by either to hate the other. It is only as an adult that he will be able to objectively view the human failings of both.

spurious

I would make sure to speak to the child's mother directly rather than relying on a 13 year old's say so that she said it's alright for contact to be made.

Just to cover yourself. I hope it works out OK.

metrovelvet

spurious wrote: »

I would make sure to speak to the child's mother directly rather than relying on a 13 year old's say so that she said it's alright for contact to be made.

Just to cover yourself. I hope it works out OK.

Legally if he is a named father then he can contact the child as often as he likes via facebook or email or whatever and would be covered legally that way. Its when it gets into in person contact that it enters access and custody territory and that is when he can get into trouble legally.

Unless the step dad adopted the child or he is not a named father then he might be in a bit of a potential pickle.

But then realistically speaking what authorities are going to get involved in facebook contact? My guess is none whatsoever. I dont think there are any laws for it anywhere.

He also has to think ahead.... how the child will revise and reframe this contact as an adult.

up for anything

Fittle wrote: »

But as a first point of contact?

Why would it make it any better the first point of contact being a letter or telephone call or even turning up on the doorstep? Children have a right to know their parents, or at least I think so and the world is changing. To 13 year olds nowadays FB is not strange, awkward, frightening or in any way odd. Looking at my 13 year old if he was in the same position he would have no hesitation in making contact with his father that way, although he would probably be more at ease if he was part of his clan on Xbox.