Run in with an undercover garda

xz

Lumen wrote: »

Since it's a common convention for people to flash headlights as a signal to proceed or as a rebuke, the instructor should have taught you not to use the signal at all.

Theory != practice. Bad instructor.

So how come I'm accident and claim free in over 11 years of driving, or am I just lucky.........which is more than can be said for my cycling, 2 crashes already this year, 2nd one I have just got over my 5 broken ribs :rolleyes:

But the common convention is wrong, so I would say instructor was not bad

Lumen

Lumen wrote: »

Theory != practice. Bad instructor.

..... and bad instruction leads to...........

xz

RoverJames wrote: »

..... and bad instruction leads to...........

Bad choice in vehicle!!!.............. I jest

xz

My bad, this thread has gone completely OT

ClareVisitor

littlejp wrote: »

A level where I can hear the music but still hear traffic... obviously.

The kind of logic that gets people knocked on their arse. If they're lucky.

Hal1

2 points and an €80 fine, oh wait...:o. You'll be grand .

littlejp

ClareVisitor wrote: »

The kind of logic that gets people knocked on their arse. If they're lucky.

How do you figure? I can still hear everything around me. Have been doing it for years and never been knocked on my arse as a result.
If it was dangerous, surely it would be against the law.

ednwireland

Hal1 wrote: »

2 points .

on your cycling ireland license

Lumen

littlejp wrote: »

If it was dangerous, surely it would be against the law.

It isn't against the law to smash yourself in the face with a hammer.

littlejp

Bit of a difference there, don't you think.

TinyExplosions

littlejp wrote: »

Bit of a difference there, don't you think.

Not really, you can't legislate against everything that may cause you harm, just because it's legal doesn't mean it's a good idea!

Canis Lupus

TinyExplosions wrote: »

Not really, you can't legislate against everything that may cause you harm, just because it's legal doesn't mean it's a good idea!

12ish years on a bike always with music playing and I've never had an accident or a moment that made me thought, wow, if I hadn't been listening to music that wouldn't have happened.

Most people who 'bash' it haven't a clue. It in no way hampers your ability to cycle safely.

charlemont

No , The cop probably got a good laugh of it..

spokeydokey

Canis Lupus wrote: »

12ish years on a bike always with music playing and I've never had an accident or a moment that made me thought, wow, if I hadn't been listening to music that wouldn't have happened.

Most people who 'bash' it haven't a clue. It in no way hampers your ability to cycle safely.

20 years on a bike and I disagree. I don't believe that years on the bike gives my opinion more weight than yours btw. Just following your lead.

TinyExplosions

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Most people who 'bash' it haven't a clue. It in no way hampers your ability to cycle safely.

Yes it does. It blocks your hearing, taking away one sense that helps you avoid accidents. Now, most people will compensate for it by being more vigilant, and thus overcompensate, giving the impression that it has no effect, but it's not true.

It's the same as saying "I've driven for 20 years, and always talk on my mobile with no hands free kit, and haven't had a crash, therefore it is in no way affects my driving ability.

-as it so happens, I have at no point said that I don't think people shouldn't cycle with earphones in, and have done it often enough myself, but I'm also of the opinion that it does affect ability to stay safe if you don't compensate for it. I also didn't "bash" it in any way, merely pointed out how Lumens post was relevant

Canis Lupus

spokeydokey wrote: »

20 years on a bike and I disagree. I don't believe that years on the bike gives my opinion more weight than yours btw. Just following your lead.

Have you cycled with earphones? Are you basing your opinion on having tried it?

TinyExplosions wrote: »

Yes it does. It blocks your hearing, taking away one sense that helps you avoid accidents. Now, most people will compensate for it by being more vigilant, and thus overcompensate, giving the impression that it has no effect, but it's not true.

It's the same as saying "I've driven for 20 years, and always talk on my mobile with no hands free kit, and haven't had a crash, therefore it is in no way affects my driving ability.

-as it so happens, I have at no point said that I don't think people shouldn't cycle with earphones in, and have done it often enough myself, but I'm also of the opinion that it does affect ability to stay safe if you don't compensate for it. I also didn't "bash" it in any way, merely pointed out how Lumens post was relevant

Fair enough on the last paragraph, it wasn't necessarily directed at you but you were the last to comment on this point.

I'd also ask what about motorcyclists stuffing their heads into a helmet? Or what about people driving a car even without music playing never mind the people who drive with music so loud your fillings shake from the bass as they pass by? They're also deadening their hearing sense but no one seems to think someone listening to the radio on the way to work is an accident waiting to happen.

Basically I disagree. I haven't seen reports of the vast swathes of cyclist being mown down by traffic from the rear that they just never heard coming (essentially the only potential blindspot created by headphones) Can you describe a reasonable, common situation where COMPLETE hearing would prevent an accident for a cyclist? (I've also never stated I can't hear traffic approaching from the rear, people shouting etc)

xz

Lumen wrote: »

It isn't against the law to smash yourself in the face with a hammer.

Thanks Lumen, that quote has made my day, and cheered me up

spokeydokey

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Have you cycled with earphones? Are you basing your opinion on having tried it?


Yes, I have. I didn't make a habit out of it though.

unionman

Middle finger signals, which I have been known to indulge in, are never a good idea. I am actively trying to unlearn the Tourettes-like reflex that makes me do it whenever I am having a moment of conflict on the road.

The friendly wave, as Captain Havoc mentioned, is always better. It acknowledges friends and confuses would-be enemies / assailants long enough for you to move on.

My one and only confrontation with a Gard was more than 20 years ago, and quite frankly, it's a miracle I didn't get locked up for the amount of foul mouthed nonsense I came out with. I'm embarrassed just remembering it.

OP, as others have said, you've heard the last of it I reckon. Learn from it and move on.

TinyExplosions

Canis Lupus wrote: »

I'd also ask what about motorcyclists stuffing their heads into a helmet? Or what about people driving a car even without music playing never mind the people who drive with music so loud your fillings shake from the bass as they pass by? They're also deadening their hearing sense but no one seems to think someone listening to the radio on the way to work is an accident waiting to happen.

No, but then I don't think using earphones on a bike is an accident waiting to happen, but that it does cause a distraction, and I'd say the same about loud radios inside cars etc etc. The crux of the matter is that I don't think it's an accident waiting to happen, but that I do think it decreases your awareness of what is going on around you. If you're happy and comfortable with that, then that's just fine... I guess I'm really saying don't be so black and white about it, or take such an inflammatory stance.

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Basically I disagree. I haven't seen reports of the vast swathes of cyclist being mown down by traffic from the rear that they just never heard coming (essentially the only potential blindspot created by headphones) Can you describe a reasonable, common situation where COMPLETE hearing would prevent an accident for a cyclist? (I've also never stated I can't hear traffic approaching from the rear, people shouting etc)

Moving over to your left or right when there's another cyclist coming up behind you -they can be hard enough to hear with nothing in your ears, let alone headphones it

Canis Lupus

TinyExplosions wrote: »

Moving over to your left or right when there's another cyclist coming up behind you -they can be hard enough to hear with nothing in your ears, let alone headphones it

:P person in front should indicate before any serious left or right movements are made. Person overtaking should leave adequate clearance In a race situation there shouldn't be any headphones.

But actually, this is one of my cycling bugbears. Drives me mental when people say I'm both at risk and A risk through wearing headphones. I'll listen to JUSTIN BIEBER IF I WANT!!!

TinyExplosions

Canis Lupus wrote: »

In a race situation there shouldn't be any headphones.

The UCI agree with that, but the pros don't!

Canis Lupus wrote: »

But actually, this is one of my cycling bugbears. Drives me mental when people say I'm both at risk and A risk through wearing headphones. I'll listen to JUSTIN BIEBER IF I WANT!!!

I would agree to a point, but once again you're falling into absolutes, no one has said you're a risk or at risk, just that you are impaired to some extent!

spokeydokey

Canis Lupus wrote: »

In a race situation there shouldn't be any headphones.

i wonder why that would be.....:rolleyes:

GSF

I'm sure there are regular drunk drivers who make the claim that its safe on the basis that they havent injured themselves or anyone else to date.

hinault

Quentinkrisp wrote: »

I have to say I've a serious cycling addict, Since January i've been to cycling to work nearly every day, rain or shine and loving the feeling of accomplishment it gives me:Dmy route takes me through tara street towards clontarf.

Today, however, I wasn't in the best of moods and was cycling up tara street, i was on the broken white line between the two lines and had the headphones in, was kind of lost in my own world. A car then beeped me and acting instinctively I gave the driver the middle finger as he passed me by. he was on the inside lane, he slowed down ahead of me and then stopped, I firstly thought he was going to get out and start on me, but then I saw a red light flash on the back of his car and heard a loud piercing siren sound and instantly got the biggest 'oh ****' feeling i've had in a long time.

He then moved over to the curb and I cycled over to the window to see what he had to say, he started giving out to me and telling me i was in the wrong (fair enough) began saying stuff like 'were you born with a few brain cells missing?' (grey area with meas i suffer AS) and then asked me for something with my name on it.
I gave him my college ID, he looked at it and continued to tick me off before handing back my college ID and driving off.

I got a bit of a shock out of the whole thing obviously. The whole point of this story is: and what I want to know is, will that garda then ring up the college and get my address from them (he now knows what college i go to)
am i screwed?
will i be going to court for this?






Mods, feel free to move this to an appropriate forum if necessary. Fellow cyclists, i don't wish to tarnish your names with my carry on, I make it my business to obey traffic lights+avoid footpaths every time i cycle.

He's gonna phone your college to say that you were riding your bike in an illegal way?

he's got far bigger fish to fry - don't worry yourself about this incident.
Just make sure to ride your bike properly!

monument

The earphone / headphone debate is nearly as bad as the helmet debate.

For what it's worth: It depends on if you're using one ear or two, what volume, what the road conditions are like, the weather, the traffic etc etc... I use one ear-bud in one ear a bit, I'll take it in and out depending what junction or road I'm approaching. I only use two of the ear-buds on off road tracks (in the park, along the coast etc).

The OP's comments about being "kind of lost in my own world" (with or without headphones) is far more worrying wearing headphones.

xz wrote: »

-A bike IS a vehicle

It is but you can walk and park bikes on a footpath. Our law is not just based on written law and strict readings of one bit of law can be problematic.

Keep_Her_Lit

Canis Lupus wrote: »

:P person in front should indicate before any serious left or right movements are made. Person overtaking should leave adequate clearance In a race situation there shouldn't be any headphones.

But actually, this is one of my cycling bugbears. Drives me mental when people say I'm both at risk and A risk through wearing headphones. I'll listen to JUSTIN BIEBER IF I WANT!!!

[SIZE=-1]Your hearing provides you with valuable information about your environment. Whether or not you utilise that information to the full is another matter.

Headphones provide a different type of information. At any audible level, music will displace some environmental sound at a similar or lower level. It is also a distraction (if it wasn't, there would no point in listening to it).

Of course you can listen to Justin Bieber if you want to and I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't. But as a consequence, you will have less information available to you about what is happening in your environment.

I don't even like wearing a thin lycra beanie down over my ears because it dulls some of the incoming sound. So on all but the most bitterly cold days, I hook the sides up over my ears.

Clear hearing allows accurate judgement of the speed and distance of traffic approaching from behind and from the left and right at junctions/roundabouts. In this respect, your ears can act almost like "eyes in the back of your head". If a car is accelerating hard from a long way back, I want to know about it because it may be moving at high speed by the time it reaches me. If a car is slowing as it approaches from behind, I want to know about that too, because it might mean that the driver intends cutting across my path into that left turn that lies just up ahead. So when he draws alongside, I am prepared, watching his position on the road and his body language inside the car (indicators? never 'eard of 'em!). Throw some music into the mix and those judgements become more difficult and less accurate. It's a compromise and one that I'm not willing to make. But that's just my tuppence worth and I've no interest in embarking on a crusade.

Perhaps you are very vigilant and active in compensating for the distraction provided by music when cycling. From my experience, that makes you an exception. Most cyclists I encounter wearing headphones appear to have very limited awareness or indeed interest in what's going on around them. If you've bucked that trend, then fair play to you, keep it up and I hope you remain safe and accident free.
[/SIZE]

xz

monument wrote: »

It is but you can walk and park bikes on a footpath. Our law is not just based on written law and strict readings of one bit of law can be problematic.

I never said you couldn't, I just stated that a bike IS a vehicle

multisport

Would it be alright to hang a parking disc off the handlebars and take up a full parking space?:rolleyes:

I'd only try it with a crappy bike that I wouldn't mind someone driving over. :cool:

donkey balls

Keep_Her_Lit wrote: »

[SIZE=-1]Your hearing provides you with valuable information about your environment. Whether or not you utilise that information to the full is another matter. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Headphones provide a different type of information. At any audible level, music will displace some environmental sound at a similar or lower level. It is also a distraction (if it wasn't, there would no point in listening to it).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Of course you can listen to Justin Bieber if you want to and I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't. But as a consequence, you will have less information available to you about what is happening in your environment.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]I don't even like wearing a thin lycra beanie down over my ears because it dulls some of the incoming sound. So on all but the most bitterly cold days, I hook the sides up over my ears. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Clear hearing allows accurate judgement of the speed and distance of traffic approaching from behind and from the left and right at junctions/roundabouts. In this respect, your ears can act almost like "eyes in the back of your head". If a car is accelerating hard from a long way back, I want to know about it because it may be moving at high speed by the time it reaches me. If a car is slowing as it approaches from behind, I want to know about that too, because it might mean that the driver intends cutting across my path into that left turn that lies just up ahead. So when he draws alongside, I am prepared, watching his position on the road and his body language inside the car (indicators? never 'eard of 'em!). Throw some music into the mix and those judgements become more difficult and less accurate. It's a compromise and one that I'm not willing to make. But that's just my tuppence worth and I've no interest in embarking on a crusade.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Perhaps you are very vigilant and active in compensating for the distraction provided by music when cycling. From my experience, that makes you an exception. Most cyclists I encounter wearing headphones appear to have very limited awareness or indeed interest in what's going on around them. If you've bucked that trend, then fair play to you, keep it up and I hope you remain safe and accident free. [/SIZE]

Most times when I cycled the aul head phones would be in but I would have spatial awareness and my enviorments,What if the person is deaf?

monument

xz wrote: »

I never said you couldn't, I just stated that a bike IS a vehicle

Sure, and I was just making it clear you can walk with / park a bike on a footpath. Was not sure if you were or were not trying to say otherwise.

Keep_Her_Lit

donkey balls wrote: »

Most times when I cycled the aul head phones would be in but I would have spatial awareness and my enviorments

Spatial awareness is vital, agreed. But where we differ is that I like to have aural awareness too. You prefer entertainment. That’s fine, it’s your choice.

donkey balls wrote: »

What if the person is deaf?

Deafness is involuntary.

doozerie

I don't understand the "it's certain death" attitude towards wearing headphones while cycling. Thankfully it's only a minority of people that adopt such an extreme attitude though. As monument mentioned in an earlier post it's just as odd as adopting the "not wearing a helmet means certain death" attitude. Both stances share a lot with the "go outside without a vest and YOU WILL DIE" view that my parents failed to pass on to myself and my siblings despite their best efforts.

I wear earphones on the bike myself at times, but only while commuting. The reason that I don't wear them while out on a "proper" spin on my own is because on a leisure/training spin the scenery, the pain, and the numerous voices arguing for space in my head, are all distractions enough that I don't need something else to help me not notice the journey pass. Sometimes I am such a zombie leaving work, or heading into work, that music helps to keep my mind from wandering so much that I am completely detached from what I am doing - in that scenario, music can actually help keep me focused on what I am doing. I certainly agree that having extra noises in your ears reduces your ability to pick up on sounds around you, but if you continue to use your other senses to keep track of your environment then I believe you can remain safe throughout your journey. Basic lack of awareness while cycling is the biggest danger to yourself and I've seen this demonstrated often enough by people not wearing headphones i.e. headphones/music themselves are not always the source of the danger. As for me, I actually find that I hear less of my environment while driving my car, even with the radio at a low level, than I do while cycling my bike with headphones in.

Keep_Her_Lit

doozerie wrote: »

I don't understand the "it's certain death" attitude towards wearing headphones while cycling.

Don’t worry, it’s unlikely that you’ll ever encounter someone expressing such a daft attitude.

doozerie wrote: »

Thankfully it's only a minority of people that adopt such an extreme attitude though.

As evidenced by the fact that no contributor to this thread has uttered such nonsense.

doozerie wrote: »

YOU WILL DIE

C’mon, let’s keep the discussion out of hyperbolic caps-lock territory.

doozerie wrote: »

… I don't need something else to help me not notice the journey pass.

I enjoy each journey for its own sake. Sounds trite but it’s true. I have no desire to seek distraction from the travel itself. Journeys by public transport and nose-to-tail traffic jams while driving are exceptions.

doozerie wrote: »

I certainly agree that having extra noises in your ears reduces your ability to pick up on sounds around you, but if you continue to use your other senses to keep track of your environment then I believe you can remain safe throughout your journey. Basic lack of awareness while cycling is the biggest danger to yourself and I've seen this demonstrated often enough by people not wearing headphones i.e. headphones/music themselves are not always the source of the danger.

All other things being equal, there is greater scope to minimise risk when not wearing headphones. That’s the bottom line here. Different people are comfortable with different levels and different types of risk and make various trade-offs in that regard, consciously or otherwise. I don’t wear headphones but in other respects, my cycling style could be considered quite risky by someone who is very risk averse. The perceived risk of cycling in traffic is enough to deter a lot of people from cycling at all, unfortunately.

doozerie wrote: »

As for me, I actually find that I hear less of my environment while driving my car, even with the radio at a low level, than I do while cycling my bike with headphones in.

I rarely have the radio on or music playing while driving. But even in that relative quiet, a lot of environmental sound is lost, being either damped out by the windows and bodywork or drowned out by engine noise. It’s less of an issue in the car though because you’re generally rolling along at a similar speed to the traffic in front and behind. If someone does overtake, you’ll spot them moving up in your mirror and they’ll complete the manoeuvre in another lane. The same applies to motorcycling and the consequent loss of sound from wearing a full face helmet. That’s quite different to cycling, when plenty of traffic may pass in the same lane and at close quarters.

High Nellie

Hey, forget about it. Even if he did contact your college, there are all sorts of data protection issues and they won't give your address just on foot of a phone call from someone claiming to be a Garda.

Good lesson for you though - giving fingers etc can spark serious road-rage incidents, especially if the other party is already provoked to the point of bolowing a horn, or souting, or whatever.

Lumen

High Nellie wrote: »

Even if he did contact your college, there are all sorts of data protection issues and they won't give your address just on foot of a phone call from someone claiming to be a Garda.

LOL.

doozerie

@Keep_Her_Lit, Re the perceived risk of wearing headphones while cycling, if you read back through this thread you'll find that there are some extreme views expressed here, such as "...but wtf were you doing cycling around with you're headphones on? Accident waiting to happen" and "...gets people knocked on their arse. If they're lucky". So yes, some contributors to this thread have adopted an extreme attitude on this topic.

As for my reference to "YOU WILL DIE", this was in relation to going outside without wearing a vest but you didn't quote that part of my sentence. Despite the fact that many mammies hold this to be an absolute truth I don't, and that was the context in which it was written. You seem to have read it in a different context.

Keep_Her_Lit wrote:

I rarely have the radio on or music playing while driving. But even in that relative quiet, a lot of environmental sound is lost, being either damped out by the windows and bodywork or drowned out by engine noise. It’s less of an issue in the car though because you’re generally rolling along at a similar speed to the traffic in front and behind. If someone does overtake, you’ll spot them moving up in your mirror and they’ll complete the manoeuvre in another lane. The same applies to motorcycling and the consequent loss of sound from wearing a full face helmet. That’s quite different to cycling, when plenty of traffic may pass in the same lane and at close quarters.

I take a very different view to what you express in your last paragraph above. I don't believe that the circumstances of driving are very different to those of cycling when you are talking about a commute/ride that takes you along heavily congested roads (or more generally either, in fact). On my commute, for example, I am often going faster than the motorised traffic due to congestion. If someone in one of those cars is less aware of their surroundings than they could be then they pose a risk to those around them, and themselves. I've seen plenty of near misses which I can only explain away by the driver being at least partly oblivious to everything else on the road. Being in a car with mirrors does not necessarily make the driver a safe(r) road user, just like being on a bicycle without headphones in does not necessarily make for a safe(r) cyclist.

We obviously fundamentally agree that headphones are not a death sentence on those that wear them but that they may increase risk in some circumstances, we seem to differ on the extent to which we believe that risk is increased and perhaps on the particular circumstances too.

kippy

I read this post then thought to myself - how many cyclists go around wearing headphones listening to music - I hope it's just the few.
Listening to music while cycling is idiotic - no other word for it.

TinyExplosions

kippy wrote: »

Listening to music while cycling is idiotic - no other word for it.

How about "your personal choice" -them's far better words than idiotic

kippy

TinyExplosions wrote: »

How about "your personal choice" -them's far better words than idiotic

Some research into the topic.
www.ajol.info/index.php/sasma/article/viewFile/31926/5941
There's more out there.

To me its idiotic. Everything is a personal choice to some extent - to view someones personal choice as idiotic is perfectly acceptable.

TinyExplosions

kippy wrote: »

Some research into the topic.
www.ajol.info/index.php/sasma/article/viewFile/31926/5941
There's more out there.

To me its idiotic. Everything is a personal choice to some extent - to view someones personal choice as idiotic is perfectly acceptable.

So you like to an article who's findings are:

Listening to music while performing submaximal cycling resulted in no physiological benefit. Yet, the cycling session done in conjunction with music was deemed, by the majority of the subjects, to be easier than the cycling session without music.

So it doesn't provide you with a measurable physiological benefit, but does provide you with mental benefit and you say that makes it idiotic? Interesting

CramCycle

kippy wrote: »

Some research into the topic.
www.ajol.info/index.php/sasma/article/viewFile/31926/5941
There's more out there.

To me its idiotic. Everything is a personal choice to some extent - to view someones personal choice as idiotic is perfectly acceptable.

Did you read the article?

It's about the benefits (or lack there of) from listening to music while training, nothing really to do with the general point of the thread or even the points about cycling with headphones made thereafter.

MarkR

Quentinkrisp wrote: »

A car then beeped me and acting instinctively I gave the driver the middle finger as he passed me by.

Seems you deserve to be pulled over and have the book thrown at you...

kippy

Sorry, wrong link.........apologies - the one posted has no relevance.
This is the correct one:
www.swov.nl/rapport/Factsheets/.../FS_Use_of_media_devices_cyclists.pdf

Officer Giggles

There is simply zero chance of anything coming from this

CramCycle

kippy wrote: »

Sorry, wrong link.........apologies - the one posted has no relevance.
This is the correct one:
www.swov.nl/rapport/Factsheets/.../FS_Use_of_media_devices_cyclists.pdf

http://www.swov.nl/rapport/Factsheets/UK/FS_Use_of_media_devices_cyclists.pdf

for some reason your link ain't working

TinyExplosions

kippy wrote: »

Sorry, wrong link.........apologies - the one posted has no relevance.
This is the correct one:
www.swov.nl/rapport/Factsheets/.../FS_Use_of_media_devices_cyclists.pdf

Ah yes, the one that states

This study detected no or only limited effects of listening to music on the cycling behaviour examined

and then it concludes with

SWOV still considers the data about the degree of increased risk due to the use of devices as insufficiently hard to take further-reaching measures, such as a legal prohibition.

so an actual study that found no evidence of effects, and the only negative conclusions were drawn from questionnaires and hearsay, and there's a conclusion that says there's no hard evidence is what you base your "idiotic" comment on?

kippy

TinyExplosions wrote: »

Ah yes, the one that states



and then it concludes with



so an actual study that found no evidence of effects, and the only negative conclusions were drawn from questionnaires and hearsay, and there's a conclusion that says there's no hard evidence is what you base your "idiotic" comment on?

Nice to see some selective quotes being used.........

Here is an abstract from the report:
http://www.fietsberaad.nl/index.cfm?section=repository&repository=Music+and+phone+increase+risks+in+cycling

The results of this study provide an initial indication of the increased risks of listening to music and using a mobile phone when cycling. It is sensible to abstain from listening to music or using a mobile phone, particularly in circumstances where attention should be paid to participating in traffic and the actual cycling. SWOV recommends taking this problem seriously, but feels at the same time that the data provided by this study are as yet insufficiently conclusive to warrant recommending in favour of or against a legal ban on using these devices when cycling. Other data or studies need to provide more clarity on the possible reductions in injuries. Of course the proportionality of the measure (in relation to other risk factors in traffic as well), practical feasibility and any cost-benefit analyses will have to be considered in this process as well.

TinyExplosions

kippy wrote: »

Nice to see some selective quotes being used.........

But the quotes I used were the relevant ones -you seem to be confusing a self-assessed survey with actual scientific findings -ie people "feel" like an accident is more likely, but there's no empirical evidence to support this assertion, so it's scientifically worthless.

In a study of 10,000 people, 75% said they thought coca-cola gave them superpowers, does that mean that it is true?

The most important bit I quoted was

SWOV still considers the data about the degree of increased risk due to the use of devices as insufficiently hard

ie, the data is not necessarily accurate.

kippy

TinyExplosions wrote: »

But the quotes I used were the relevant ones -you seem to be confusing a self-assessed survey with actual scientific findings -ie people "feel" like an accident is more likely, but there's no empirical evidence to support this assertion, so it's scientifically worthless.

In a study of 10,000 people, 75% said they thought coca-cola gave them superpowers, does that mean that it is true?

The most important bit I quoted was



ie, the data is not necessarily accurate.

This is the bit I'd be reading.
Not enough data in this report to suggest the need for a LEGAL BAN.

SWOV recommends taking this problem seriously, but feels at the same time that the data provided by this study are as yet insufficiently conclusive to warrant recommending in favour of or against a legal ban on using these devices when cycling


Further Articles - not research:
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/headphone-danger-warning-after-cyclist-using-ipod-hit-by-tram-20100616-yfcc.html
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Cyclists-with-headphones---the-next-big-danger-to-lawmakers-114223074.html
http://www.michaelwharton.co.uk/2009/08/cyclists-wearing-earphones-or-headphones-bad-idea/