who is wrong here

professore

I hope I never have to be judged by a jury of my peers - to me this is an open and shut case. Ok the OP strictly speaking should not have been in a bus lane, but the catalog of errors and dangerous driving by the other driver is way way worse.

professore

zinzan wrote: »

Both at fault, both claim on your own insurance for your own car?!

That is such a bs way to treat this. If blame should be apportioned it should be 5% OP, 95% other driver. Having said that in reality what you said could well happen.

Grolschevik

professore wrote: »

I hope I never have to be judged by a jury of my peers - to me this is an open and shut case. Ok the OP strictly speaking should not have been in a bus lane, but the catalog of errors and dangerous driving by the other driver is way way worse.

And there is the valid question of whether the bus lane was in operation at the time. Can anyone run out onto Amiens St to check?:pac:

OP did behave a little oddly but frankly even if he was going straight on, other driver should have stopped and waited.
And if someone in a car in front of you is behaving oddly (e.g. OP) you keep your distance and wait to see are they going or not, not start driving like you're in formula 1
That's how you prevent accidents, I've had my share of wacky drivers in front of me so I drove accordingly therefore was not injured when they cut across me etc

professore

IPAM wrote: »

Yes




As for the others, I didnt even see the pedestrian as I was fixed to the very top of the pic, waiting for the other car to come, so I admit I was wrong

Fair play to you. Shows you what a good driver the OP is - he saw the pedestrian ! LOL

Grolschevik

Grolschevik wrote: »

And there is the valid question of whether the bus lane was in operation at the time. Can anyone run out onto Amiens St to check?:pac:

I think it wasnt

http://maps.google.ie/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Amien+Street,+top+petrol+station&aq=&sll=53.353907,-6.247573&sspn=0.001825,0.004136&ie=UTF8&rq=1&ev=zi&radius=0.1&split=1&filter=0&hq=Amien+Street,+top+petrol+station&hnear=&layer=c&cbll=53.354368,-6.247074&panoid=PN_SCw0TR94UHxFuov8n2A&cbp=12,185.87,,0,8.19&ll=53.354458,-6.246983&spn=0,0.005284&z=18

see bus sign on far left

firefly08

Definitely the other driver's fault. When the OP started moving, he had possession of the lane. There was nothing in front of him. The other driver was reckless and did not yield to a moving vehicle already in the lane. It really doesn't matter whether the OP intended to enter the forecourt or continue on along the road - he had the right of way. No amount of observation would have told him that the other driver was going to swing wildly into his lane!

The other driver may have observed that the OP was stationary when she was a short distance behind. But by the time she was parallel with him, the OP was already moving. At that point she had the opportunity to stop and wait. But she went for it anyway - that's either aggressive driving or very poor observation.

How can you not notice that a car that's right beside you, a few feet away, that you intend to drive in front of, is moving?

professore

professore wrote: »

That is such a bs way to treat this. If blame should be apportioned it should be 5% OP, 95% other driver. Having said that in reality what you said could well happen.

In fact if the bus lane was not in operation, then it's 100% other driver.

Faolchu

Tigger wrote: »

its dark in that footage
is that still a bus lane at that time?

i was thinking just that. OP check the bus lane sign in the area that will tell you if if was or wasnt in operation. at least then the other guy cant claim the "he shouldnt be driving in a bus lane" defense.

after the car in fron of you pulls in to the garage you do move forward and to your left but you leave a pretty large gap between your car and the footpath/enterance while waiting when you may have been able to move into the forecort as the silver car wold not be blocking your way and then to me you defintily look to pulling away from the enterance as if to drive forward and trun to your right slightly. the other gut has his left indicator on as he is approaching as if to pull in to the garage

Mr. Presentable

Thanks for the video! I think on review that the OP only moved off once the other car was alongside. Both were signalling left. It matters not whether the bus lane is active, that the OP seemed to move right to turn left (a LOT of people do that - why I don't know) or why the OP waited to move.

The OP failed to observe the other car, the other car was assuredly reckless in their approach to the entrance.

50/50 in my new opinion.

Grolschevik

Grolschevik wrote: »

Perhaps (but it doesn't look like that to me). However, even if that were the case, the other driver should still not have cut across him in that manner, at that speed and with that much lack of observation. Zinzan's first post stands. And in either scenario, the driver of the red car was reckless and in the wrong.

You can't see the OP move to the right away from the service station entrance?

keithclancy

Are you guys mental ?

The the red car swung left without slowing down at all, the OPs indicator was on to turn left, why would you stop at the side of the road NEXT to a Petrol Station, why not just park in the Petrol station .. its common sense people.


See the red golf flying into the station at 4:28, What a muppet.

I'd shoot everyone there

Anyways that other person in the red car is 100% at fault.

You should not try to overtake a car thats driving into a petrol station.

firefly08

All this business about the bus lane is irrelevant nonsense.

How could this possibly have anything to do with it? The fact that it was a bus lane is not a contributing factor to the incident. Maybe the OP should get a ticket for driving in a bus lane but that's irrelevant to the issue at hand.

firefly08

firefly08 wrote: »

All this business about the bus lane is irrelevant nonsense.

How could this possibly have anything to do with it? The fact that it was a bus lane is not a contributing factor to the incident. Maybe the OP should get a ticket for driving in a bus lane but that's irrelevant to the issue at hand.

It was out of op

I'm still blaming 100% on other driver

Grolschevik

RoverJames wrote: »

You can't see the OP move to the right away from the service station entrance?

I saw him begin to move, but not in any way (from that angle) that would make me think he was intending to go to the right.

Grolschevik

Grolschevik wrote: »

I saw him begin to move, but not in any way (from that angle) that would make me think he was intending to go to the right.

Look a the broken white line and the driver side wheel of the OPs car, if you can't observe the movement to the right before impact you have serious issues with your eye sight, also look at the direction the OPs car is facing before it moves and while it's moving, the OP moved quite a bit to the right.

And for the folks reckoning the other driver would have hit the pedestrian if they hadn't hit the OP, please look again at the video.

Now I reckon the other driver is at fault too but no way is it 100% and I'd be amazed if the insurers thought so.

If the OP had carried on in the direction the car was pointing the other car would have driven in sumultaneously, taking the positon behind the silver 206 and leaving the OP go for the other pump. Not ideal but if the OP hadn't turned to the right (and anyone who reckons they haven't has major issues) there would not have been a collision at all.

keithclancy

RoverJames wrote: »

Look a the broken white line and the driver side wheel of the OPs car, if you can't observe the movement to the right before impact you have serious issues with your eye sight, also look at the direction the OPs car is facing before it moves and while it's moving, the OP moved quite a bit to the right.

And for the folks reckoning the other driver would have hit the pedestrian if they hadn't hit the OP, please look again at the video.

Now I reckon the other driver is at fault too but no way is it 100% and I'd be amazed if the insurers thought so.

The OP never entered the other drivers lane, the other driver entered the OP's lane.

The OP was in the bus lane, then moved forward, one wheel out of the bus lane and then moved forward still staying in the bus lane, meanwhile in the next lane over, person behind indicates left swerves from other lane over, across bus lane cutting off a moving car (The OPs)

If it was me and I was indicating left, I'd be paying attention to Pedestrians crossing, bicycle in by blind spot on my left, the last thing I would consider is some loolah swerving in front of me to get into the station

Grolschevik

RoverJames wrote: »

Look a the broken white line and the driver side wheel of the OPs car, if you can't observe the movement to the right before impact you have serious issues with your eye sight, also look at the direction the OPs car is facing before it moves and while it's moving, the OP moved quite a bit to the right.

And for the folks reckoning the other driver would have hit the pedestrian if they hadn't hit the OP, please look again at the video.

Now I reckon the other driver is at fault too but no way is it 100% and I'd be amazed if the insurers thought so.

You may be right, but I'd want to see it again a few times in slo mo. And to be honest, I don't think I can be bothered to go and look at it again, as youtube is blocked on this PC and I have to go ask a colleague to show it.

In my opinion, the evidence is in, the debate is over, case closed, leave to appeal denied!:)

Noo

Yes i reckon he wouldve had a good chance at hitting the pedestrian. And as for the bus lane arguement if you watch the video the other car comes up in the bus lane, sees the other car infront of him, and is then unsure whether to go into the next lane and kinda drives between the lanes without looking what traffic is in that lane, theres a few close calls with the traffic in the other lane.

BostonB

Its a petrol station. Its quite usually to have cars waiting to enter them, and leaving a gap for pedestrians and cyclists etc.

if you not sure what someone is doing you don't cut right across them.

Grolschevik

Grolschevik wrote: »

You may be right, but I'd want to see it again a few times in slo mo. And to be honest, I don't think I can be bothered to go and look at it again, as youtube is blocked on this PC and I have to go ask a colleague to show it.

In my opinion, the evidence is in, the debate is over, case closed, leave to appeal denied!:)

Well in fairness if you haven't had a good look a the video there is no point at all debating it with you.

Noo wrote: »

Yes i reckon he wouldve had a good chance at hitting the pedestrian. .

the little tip didn't halt the red car's progress and he came no way near the pedestrian.


I would be fairly sure the OP has a provisional license and very little driving experience too.

keithclancy

keithclancy wrote: »

The OP never entered the other drivers lane, the other driver entered the OP's lane.

The OP was in the bus lane, then moved forward, one wheel out of the bus lane and then moved forward still staying in the bus lane, meanwhile in the next lane over, person behind indicates left swerves from other lane over, across bus lane cutting off a moving car (The OPs)

If it was me and I was indicating left, I'd be paying attention to Pedestrians crossing, bicycle in by blind spot on my left, the last thing I would consider is some loolah swerving in front of me to get into the station

Put your mouse on the OPs car and look at the movement of the car relative to the mouse. If it were you you should be aware of what's in all of your mirrors and what's in front of you, all the OP had to do was stand on the brake They didn't, and they were going about 5mph max so their awareness and reaction was shockingly poor.

jhegarty

100% the other drivers fault.

Even if the op drove forward he was still cut across.

The op clearly wasn't parked , he was waiting for the pedestrians to cross.

Satanta

I am now swaying to a 50/50 liability. And in fact maybe the OP was in some way's more at fault.

At 2:24 he has his left indicator on and looks like he is letting a pedestrian walk by.
At 2.28 it looks like the left indicator stops flashing (hard to tell). This "possibly" happened because the OP straightened up the steering wheel. At this point the other car has slowed down, obviously trying to decide what the OP was doing.
at 2:30 the OP moves off to the right, and TBH honestly looks of he is going to rejoin traffic.
At 2.32 ba-boom

The other driver shouldnt have cut across the OP like that, but it would have been unclear what the OP was doing if they were sat stationary with no indicator flashing.

Grolschevik

RoverJames wrote: »

Well in fairness if you haven't had a good look a the video there is no point at all debating it with you.

Nonsense. It's plain as day that the other driver was in the wrong. I and the people I viewed it with immediately thought so, and the others hadn't had their opinions pre-formed by this boards thread.

I am quite sure that if the original post had just been the video and the statement "Jaysus, would you look at this!", you and the others would be calling the other driver a muppet. However, now you seem to have a vested interest in defending your position even in the light of the video evidence.

RoverJames wrote: »

I would be fairly sure the OP has a provisional license and very little driving experience too.

Would you, indeed?

Noo

He wouldnt have had to go around the OPs car and probably wouldve taken the corner at higher speed so yes i still believe he may have hit him.

But just look at the other drivers behaviour before the accident...no hesitation, no "hmm this car has a left indicator on at the entrance to the garage i wonder if theyre turning into the garage"...reckless driving.

keithclancy

RoverJames wrote: »

Put your mouse on the OPs car and look at the movement of the car relative to the mouse. If it were you you should be aware of what's in all of your mirrors and what's in front of you, all the OP had to do was stand on the brake They didn't, and they were going about 5mph max so their awareness and reaction was shockingly poor.

When your car is moving your supposed to be looking where the car is going.
The OP couldn't see the car until it swung in front of him.

If the op was looking over his shoulder while the car was moving it would be dangerous.

Satanta

Satanta wrote: »

I am now swaying to a 50/50 liability. And in fact maybe the OP was in some way's more at fault.

At 2:24 he has his left indicator on and looks like he is letting a pedestrian walk by.
At 2.28 it looks like the left indicator stops flashing (hard to tell). This "possibly" happened because the OP straightened up the steering wheel. At this point the other car has slowed down, obviously trying to decide what the OP was doing.
at 2:30 the OP moves off to the right, and TBH honestly looks of he is going to rejoin traffic.
At 2.32 ba-boom

The other driver shouldnt have cut across the OP like that, but it would have been unclear what the OP was doing if they were sat stationary with no indicator flashing.

Excellent post, pity the rest of them won't have a decent look at the footage. I've watched it about 9 times now. The OPs change in direction was quite strange and I reckon they had decided they were rejoining the traffic, indicate right, quick peak in the rhs mirror and appropriate action (ie not moving) and the incident wouldn't have happened.

In the OPs first post let's not forget that the other driver was saying that the OP wasn't indicating right

keithclancy

keithclancy wrote: »

When your car is moving your supposed to be looking where the car is going.
The OP couldn't see the car until it swung in front of him.

If the op was looking over his shoulder while the car was moving it would be dangerous.

the OP went right without checking was the way clear

maskabun

RoverJames wrote: »

Excellent post, pity the rest of them won't have a decent look at the footage. I've watched it about 9 times now. The OPs change in direction was quite strange and I reckon they had decided they were rejoining the traffic, indicate right, quick peak in the rhs mirror and appropriate action (ie not moving) and the incident wouldn't have happened.

In the OPs first post let's not forget that the other driver was saying that the OP wasn't indicating right

What is the point now argueing what the other driver said as we have video showing the indicator ON.

URLs at freeze frames don't work

KERSPLAT!

maskabun wrote: »

What is the point now argueing what the other driver said as we have video showing the indicator ON.

But if the driver thought you were stationary/parked they would expect to see your right indicator on as you pulled off to the right, atleast I think thats what the other posters are saying

maskabun

maskabun wrote: »

What is the point now argueing what the other driver said as we have video showing the indicator ON.

We have video of you going right and not indicating right

maskabun

RoverJames wrote: »

We have video of you going right and not indicating right

I was trying to make a convenient turn that doesnt hit the black small pillar ahead and also making sure that the back wheel shouldn't hid the curb

zinzan

RoverJames wrote: »

Well in fairness if you haven't had a good look a the video there is no point at all debating it with you.



the little tip didn't halt the red car's progress and he came no way near the pedestrian.


I would be fairly sure the OP has a provisional license and very little driving experience too.

I'd take a guess at about one year driving?

keithclancy

RoverJames wrote: »

the OP went right without checking was the way clear

The lane is there for a reason, the OP never crossed into the other lane and would not hinder someone elses travel. The only reason this event occured is because the person in the other car pulled across the lane in front of the OPs car while the OP was already moving. If they didnt do this the event would not have happened.

If you think about it the person in the other car could see the op in front of them in the direction they were travelling, while there are behind the open while he is travelling forward.

2.29 cars are next to each other, OP starts moving forward, car in other lane indicating left to pull in.
2.31 OP is moving for 2 whole seconds, other car begins to turn.
3.22/2.33 OP sees car, applys brakes, other car keeps going and turns into the OPS car.

keithclancy

keithclancy wrote: »

2.29 cars are next to each other, OP starts moving forward, car in other lane indicating left to pull in.
2.31 OP is moving for 2 whole seconds, other car begins to turn.
3.22/2.33 OP sees car, applys brakes, other car keeps going and turns into the OPS car.

Moving in which direction pray tell ?

Mc Love

Open and shut case - the fault clearly lies with the other driver

zinzan

maskabun wrote: »

I was trying to make a convenient turn that doesnt hit the black small pillar ahead

Doesn't change the fact that you pulled right without indicating. The other car is not without fault however, pulling into the garage in a wreckless manner. However whether or not this will be seen as 'at fault' I don't know.
I think best you'll do is 50/50 blame and go your separate ways.

BostonB

RoverJames wrote: »

the OP went right without checking was the way clear

Did he change lane no. Did the other driver yes.

zinzan

Mc Love wrote: »

Open and shut case - the fault clearly lies with the other driver

This one will obviously run and run! We can only hope the OP will return once the case is settled and let us know the outcome so that whoever the law sided with can thumb their noses firmly at everyone else! :P

maskabun

maskabun wrote: »

I was trying to make a convenient turn that doesnt hit the black small pillar ahead and also making sure that the back wheel shouldn't hid the curb

If that is the case that you thought you were going to hit the black pillar than your judgement is awful. How long have you been driving and do you have a full license?

BostonB wrote: »

Did he change lane no. Did the other driver yes.

I'm not saying the OP is 100% at fault

keithclancy

RoverJames wrote: »

Moving in which direction pray tell ?

Hmm .. I have a feeling here that any direction I say will be wrong .. the Picture is in 2d, and I don't have an Aerial map handy.

All I can say for certain is the OP's car was moving forward and the other car went anyway because either:

1. They weren't paying attention
or
2. They REALLY wanted to get Petrol first.

Whats the craic about indicating right anyway, you only indicate when you cross a white line, or when turning

If you indicated for every movement of your car while in a lane the person behind you would think your drunk

keithclancy

keithclancy wrote: »

Hmm .. I have a feeling here that any direction I say will be wrong .. the Picture is in 2d, and I don't have an Aerial map handy.

All I can say for certain is the OP's car was moving forward and the other car went anyway because either:

1. They weren't paying attention
or
2. They REALLY wanted to get Petrol first.

Whats the craic about indicating right anyway, you only indicate when you cross a white line.

If you indicated for every movement of your car while in a lane the person behind you would think your drunk

So you don't reckon there was any movement to the right, away from the service station entrance?

Tigger

the op didn't change lane
the op was entitled to be there as the bus lane requirement had finished for the evening
oh the op didn't drive in as he should have and if he had then the collision wouldn't have happen, but the other car is more at fault but as RJ points out you start right while signaling left

the other car swung out from the bus lane then back round the op
the other car however stayed in the bus lane swung in from the bus lane
the other car is guilty of driving with undue care and attention and even if she wasn't gonna hit the pedestrian that was more luck than design

if the two of you are sensible you will fix your own cars and drive better in the future.

this is my opinion but i believe that your damage will be less than hers and that financially you will be better off keeping this away from the insurance

i am not an expert

zinzan

keithclancy wrote: »

Whats the craic about indicating right anyway, you only indicate when you cross a white line, or when turning

Or when moving off from a stationary position.

keithclancy

RoverJames wrote: »

So you don't reckon there was any movement to the right, away from the service station entrance?

No, it looks more like the OP was moving forward to avoid the black pole at the edge of the entrance.

zinzan

Tigger wrote: »

the other car swung out from the bus lane then back round the op

This could possibly add to the case of the other driver in saying they were convinced the OP was parked.

keithclancy

zinzan wrote: »

Or when moving off from a stationary position.

Jesus .. all of those people in traffic jams are proper idiots.

maskabun

Tigger wrote: »

the op didn't change lane

... but i believe that your damage will be less than hers and that financially you will be better off keeping this away from the insurance

i am not an expert

My damage is more than her, she just had little scratches, where my car's corner went little inside.