Need some advice - NAS or Server

selephonic

Hi all

I need some advice. I have become the defacto IT guy in work due to the downturn. We used to use external consultants but can't afford to anymore.

Our server, an Xserve G5 has failed recently and needs the Logic board replaced. I am thinking that we may be better off going for a NAS solution instead. Something like the Synology 1511+ populated with 10tb would most likely cost about the same as the Xserve repair.

What we require is:
At least 2 tb of storage, in something like a RAID 5 or 1 config, so 4 to 8 tb required
Maximum of 20 users locally, although more often less than 10.
Folder level permissions, at least at root level.
Remote access for off site use, preferably a VPN style.

We are looking for something reliable, easy to administer, and quick enough for 10 people to be working off CAD files at once.

Are NAS boxes good enough for this yet, should we just repair our server and wait a couple of years for a suitable NAS? We don't run email servers or anything else really, its just a file server.

Be very happy for any kind of suggestions anyone has.

Static M.e.

The Xserve G5 is a MAC server, which I know nothing about but here we go.

What we require is:
At least 2 tb of storage, in something like a RAID 5 or 1 config, so 4 to 8 tb required --- 4 - 8 TB is a big jump, espically if you only need two. Remember whatever TB they offer you, it will be RAW so keep in mind that when you Raid it, it will shrink considerable. Simply think of 20% less. If they offer you 10Tb you will have 8 TB at the end.

Maximum of 20 users locally, although more often less than 10. --- Number of users don't really matter, until you are talking about big numbers.

Folder level permissions, at least at root level. --- This should be simply enough if you have a domain.

Remote access for off site use, preferably a VPN style.--- This is not a NAS feature. Generally something else gives you this feature, your firewall for instance.

We are looking for something reliable, easy to administer, and quick enough for 10 people to be working off CAD files at once. --- Get some GB network cards and make sure your switch is a GB switch, use Cat 5e cables.

Are NAS boxes good enough for this yet, should we just repair our server and wait a couple of years for a suitable NAS? We don't run email servers or anything else really, its just a file server. --- How much does it cost to fix the server? You can buy a general 4TB NAS for €800 but thats basic, a proper NAS will cost you a couple of thousand, as in 5k ish. You are also talking about running VPN services which as mentioned isnt a NAS thing...

Keep the questions coming. HTH
(I've keep this simple for the OP, all of the above can/does vary)

selephonic

Thanks for the reply Static.

4 - 8 TB is a big jump, espically if you only need two. Remember whatever TB they offer you, it will be RAW so keep in mind that when you Raid it, it will shrink considerable. Simply think of 20% less. If they offer you 10Tb you will have 8 TB at the end. Yep, what I meant was that our current needs are 2tb of storage so a 4tb RAID would give us about this, though we plump for more storage so 4-8 tb was my thinking.

The Synology 1511+ seems to offer pretty much all that we want, but I'm curious if anyone has experience with using something like this in place of a 'proper' server. We have been quoted close to 1k to replace the logic board in the Xserve with no guarantee that something else doesn't fail soon after, so I'd prefer to implement something that would have a potentially longer life and is more straightforward to administer.

All of the network elements have been fine with the xserve in place so this is the only bit I'm looking at replacing.

Static M.e.

As a NAS Server it would be fine, it looks quite good actually. I suppose you just want to be sure that you only need a NAS..

Just thinking outloud here...im tired
With a NAS vs File Server. You cant run any applications on a NAS, so no webservers. How do you plan on doing backups? Do you know if anything else was running on your server apart from file storage. Normally whatever backup system you use needs to run on a server.

Normally you have servers + a NAS. You could also be in the same situation in a years time if something on your NAS fails.

If your going to the IT guy, you need to think what about having redundancy for bits failing. You could get a server or NAS from DELL with a four hour response time to fix any problems. Worst case if something fails you have someone on site within 4 hours to get you back up and running. You can also be confident that the majority of problems are very fixable within hours. Having a NAS off the shelf without a decent warranty could be more trouble than its worth. Its not the cost of the NAS its the cost to you if you cant get it working again for a day, 2 days, a week, 2 weeks etc.

Remember your the IT guy now so it will kinda be your problem. I know its not answering your question but you should be thinking of it or at least have told everyone in work so your ass is covered.

Hmm you might also want to check out the price of the Synology. I got a HP ShareSpace with 5 TB for 800 euro but its very basic stuff. I wouldn't use it for anything apart from dumb storage. The Synology might cost you a bit more.

selephonic

Thanks again for the response Static, its helpful just to have someone to bounce ideas off.

The Synology is 790 but thats vat incl. So with 4 x 2tb drives it shouyld come in under 1k ex vat. This is what we have been quoted for the repair.

Currently we run a tape backup, which will not work for the NAS, it runs off SCSI. I am thinking we would backup to external drive nightly and perhaps once a week run these onto the tape for security. The synology supports rsync natively for incremental backups. We can do with running at lower capacity(off a USB backup) for a couple of days if something goes wrong, thats how we are working at the moment :eek:.

Our server was only ever running as file storage, making me think in this age, when you can get high capacity NASs that would be the more suitable option. I know it sounds like I'm arguing in favour of the NAS but its just that I'm leaning toward a system that is foolproof as I won't be in the office forever. Looking for the simplest and most cost effective solution at the moment.

Static M.e.

selephonic wrote: »

Currently we run a tape backup, which will not work for the NAS, it runs off SCSI. I am thinking we would backup to external drive nightly and perhaps once a week run these onto the tape for security. The synology supports rsync natively for incremental backups. We can do with running at lower capacity(off a USB backup) for a couple of days if something goes wrong, thats how we are working at the moment.

Thats what I mean though, how do you plan on connecting the SCSI Tape backup device to the NAS or even running the backup from the NAS to the USB Drive nightly?

You would have to have something in between such as PC/Server and then if you do, you are running the backup from the NAS to the PC and from the PC to the USB device...a lot can go wrong there. I don't know if the backup would even work nightly for more than 2 TB of data. Do you know what I mean you are essentially doing the backup twice (From the NAS to the PC / from the PC to the USB).

I was thinking of this as well are your PC's in a domain? if so, where are they authenticating too.

The whole Apple Server bothers me too, for some unknown reason. Why apple..

Looking for the simplest and most cost effective solution at the moment. --- Agreed, a NAS is the Simplest option and is fine as long as you know what you trading off for it being that simple... You could be a case of suck it and see...but if it was me I would have the money on hand to buy another server if this option doesn't work.

My input is really only guesswork, you might have something in your environment that would totally rule out a NAS all together or make it perfect..I just don't know so im just posting anything I can think of offhand. You can go with Plan A but just have a Plan B costed up..so their's no surprises for anyone.

IT is fun, right?

selephonic

Static M.e. wrote: »

Thats what I mean though, how do you plan on connecting the SCSI Tape backup device to the NAS or even running the backup from the NAS to the USB Drive nightly?

The NAS natively supports rsync which will do incremental backups to a connected USB drive, I would use two drives, alternating one running and one in my backpack. Then once a week plug into my desktop where the SCSI tape has been connected since the server failed, and doing a backup to tape.

Static M.e. wrote: »

I was thinking of this as well are your PC's in a domain? if so, where are they authenticating too.

No no domain, we are on a simple workgroup.

Static M.e. wrote: »

The whole Apple Server bothers me too, for some unknown reason. Why apple..

Don't ask... implemented before I had any authority, I'm pretty sure we were sold obsolete stock, a G5 xserve just before the Intels came out. Its a design office so Apple have always been favoured, it would have been an easy sell for the IT consultant. And to be fair its been pretty solid until this year, despite its limitations in terms of expansion.

Static M.e. wrote: »

My input is really only guesswork, you might have something in your environment that would totally rule out a NAS all together or make it perfect..I just don't know so im just posting anything I can think of offhand. You can go with Plan A but just have a Plan B costed up..so their's no surprises for anyone.

IT is fun, right?

Any input is extremely helpful and very much appreciated. I think that I will recommend the NAS as a short term option, and I'll just make sure to really cover my ass regarding backups. I have a linux box running as an archive server so I'll use that as an extra backup too.

IT is not fun,