Liverpool v Braga, Europa League 2nd Leg, KO @ 20:05

K-9

The Muppet wrote: »

It was You.;)

I'm serious,

It's one thing to raise your game against United and Chelsea
, your problem is that the players then think they are actually at that level and don't need to put in the same effort against the weaker teams.

No change there then from the last few years.

Kenny is the man to drill that out of them but it will take time and a few signings.

The Muppet

K-9 wrote: »

No change there then from the last few years.

Kenny is the man to drill that out of them but it will take time and a few signings.

Yeah I agree, It's not Kenny Or wasn't Roy for that matter, the blame is with the players, theres too many ordinary players . lucas , ngog, maxi, skirtel, johnson, and theres more

BERBA

any spare tickets for the final lads? i'm looking for 2

Bodhisopha

flahavaj wrote: »

First full EL game I've watched this season. What a wretched competition. Terrible atmosphere, worse football, two pretty dire teams on the night, empty seats galore. Will not be trying that any time soon again.

By your own admission it's the first game you've watched this season. You should perhaps watch a little more before passing judegement.

flahavaj

Bodhisopha wrote: »

By your own admission it's the first game you've watched this season. You should perhaps watch a little more before passing judegement.

I've seen enough.

Maybe that was just Liverpool though, who knows. Thursday is usually the night I play ball myself.

Panthro

Should this thread get unlocked yet?:pac:

K-9

The Muppet wrote: »

Yeah I agree, It's not Kenny Or wasn't Roy for that matter, the blame is with the players, theres too many ordinary players . lucas , ngog, maxi, skirtel, johnson, and theres more

There's about 5 or 6 players we could lose before Lucas, Johnson and Skyrtel which gives you an idea of the task ahead.

Bodhisopha

flahavaj wrote: »

I've seen enough.

Maybe that was just Liverpool though, who knows. Thursday is usually the night I play ball myself.

Liverpool play muck football and the atmosphere at Anfield for the Europa league reflects that and the fact they've been spoiled for years with CL football.

The tournament still throws up some excellent games with cracking atmospheres. Don't give up on it!

Dr. Nick

Just saw the Dublin parade on the news - was that a giant Liver-bird??

The Muppet

The Muppet wrote: »

It was You.;)

I'm serious,

It's one thing to raise your game against United and Chelsea
, your problem is that the players then think they are actually at that level and don't need to put in the same effort against the weaker teams.

Two things we don't have- Quality squad and consistancy. Tbf, this season was wrote off before it started.

I don't think there's a fan amongst us that doesn't agree a massive clearout is needed tbf.

Still though we were without 4 of out better players tonight for different reasons so its not all doom and gloom

The Muppet

rarnes1 wrote: »

Two things we don't have- Quality squad and consistancy. Tbf, this season was wrote off before it started.

I don't think there's a fan amongst us that doesn't agree a massive clearout is needed tbf.

Still though we were without 4 of out better players tonight for different reasons so its not all doom and gloom

As you know I have been critical of the quality in your squad for over a year now and had many an argument on here to back up that opinion and place the blame for that where it lies. You are right that many pool supporters are begining to realise how poor the squad that roy and kenny inherited is. I suppose it will also dawn on them where the majority of the blame for Liverpool's current predicament lies.

K-9

The Muppet wrote: »

As you know I have been critical of the quality in your squad for over a year now and had many an argument on here to back up that opinion and place the blame for that where it lies. You are right that many pool supporters are begining to realise how poor the squad that roy and kenny inherited is. I suppose it will also dawn on them where the majority of the blame for Liverpool's current predicament lies.

You have been following Pool for so long now you should know that the lack of squad depth has been an issue for long enough.

The Muppet

K-9 wrote: »

You have been following Pool for so long now you should know that the lack of squad depth has been an issue for long enough.

I did, it was convincing rafas diciples that took so long, some still aren't convinced.

dedon

Just lumping the long ball up to Carroll who has so much yet to prove. The lad has done nothing in his career yet.

That was awful football tonight and I would be ashamed to be a liverpool fan .

Long ball football does it for Stoke and should not be for Liverpool. did ye spend crazy crazy money of a donkey to get on the end of long balls for the next five years??

Ye will win nothing with that style of play.

K-9

dedon wrote: »

Just lumping the long ball up to Carroll who has so much yet to prove. The lad has done nothing in his career yet.

That was awful football tonight and I would be ashamed to be a liverpool fan .

Long ball football does it for Stoke and should not be for Liverpool. did ye spend crazy crazy money of a donkey to get on the end of long balls for the next five years??

Ye will win nothing with that style of play.

Suarez and Carrol haven't even played together yet.

Zak Flaps

jaykay74 wrote: »

Kennys lack of european experience as a manager coming to the fore. Dare I say Hodgsons EL nous may have brought ye home.

Totally disagree. Too many average players, that's why we're out. Big job ahead.

The Muppet wrote: »

Yeah I agree, It's not Kenny Or wasn't Roy for that matter, the blame is with the players, theres too many ordinary players . lucas , ngog, maxi, skirtel, johnson, and theres more

Have to agree with this clown. Way too much drivel on the team.

Yakult

If you have a target man like Carroll in the box you need wingers who can cross the ball in from the byline, our "wingers" cant even get to the byline, nevermind float in a good cross.

cantgetright

Disappointed we went out tonight, even though it's a ''Mickey mouse cup ''. We defo needed width. Maxi, Kuyt and Cole kept playing to central and Full backs didnt get beyond the defence often enough. Think it shows over two legs that Wilson shouldnt be played on the left in a makeshift back 3 or 4.
Not forgetting that Braga were well organised and the other two portuguese teams both qualified.

bUILDERtHEbOB

This "omg suarez nd carrol yayayayaaya qualityyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy" nonsense has to stop. Yes they're good players and all, but until we have players who can actually get the ball to them in such a way that isn't a 75 yard hoof from left to right it's just not going to happen for us.

On the match, whoever decided we should play 4-4-2 is a complete gimp and that Jay Spearing substitution is right up there in the league of crazy substitutions of this millenium. He's just such a pointless player, at least Poulsen is tall enough to win headers.

We badly need attacking midfielders/wingers that aren't slow, aging and past their best and a left back, because Danny Wilson is not a left back.

K-9

bUILDERtHEbOB wrote: »

This "omg suarez nd carrol yayayayaaya qualityyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy" nonsense has to stop. Yes they're good players and all, but until we have players who can actually get the ball to them in such a way that isn't a 75 yard hoof from left to right it's just not going to happen for us.

On the match, whoever decided we should play 4-4-2 is a complete gimp and that Jay Spearing substitution is right up there in the league of crazy substitutions of this millenium. He's just such a pointless player, at least Poulsen is tall enough to win headers.

We badly need attacking midfielders/wingers that aren't slow, aging and past their best and a left back, because Danny Wilson is not a left back.

Maybe it's just me, but could we wait until they are on the pitch first before the smart comments.

The rest we all know.

Liam O

LOL

barryd09

Proves my point from last week once again.

Massive-game-raising-cup-finalists

Liverpool FC.

Handsome Bob

Liam O wrote: »

LOL

Sleep it off son.

Mister men

The Muppet wrote: »

I did, it was convincing rafas diciples that took so long, some still aren't convinced.

Yakult

Yakult wrote: »

If you have a target man like Carroll in the box you need wingers who can cross the ball in from the byline, our "wingers" cant even get to the byline, nevermind float in a good cross.

This.

SlickRic

barryd09 wrote: »

Proves my point from last week once again.

Massive-game-raising-cup-finalists

Liverpool FC.

nope.

it just proved...

1. with Carroll in the team, more than ever, we need wingers.

2. Suarez is already a huge player for us.

3. even though he's done great, Kenny's not a complete miracle worker; he can't transform an underperforming team into a madly consistent top, top one within a couple of months.

last night was an embarrassment; and last night the fault must certainly be lumped on the players. how apt to use the word 'lump'. we were back to the days of Crouch up front. it seems our players are so scared to play football at times that they use the default 'lump it' option once they see a tall guy. it was horrendous, and i can't imagine, after seeing how we've played so often under Kenny, that he would advocate such militant use of the tactic.

he had us high enough up the pitch, but the players just showed no compsure.

Skrtel can fúck off at this stage; i'm sick of the sight of him. he's not worth it if he's only any good with Agger in good form beside him. the amount of times he'd be one-on-one with the striker, with the striker having his back to goal, and he'd foul him, was just untrue.

but the main thing is we need wingers so, so, so, so, so much.

The Muppet

Mister men wrote: »

Good tactic, I love it , if you can't counter a pov , post a stupid picture or video.

Your absence from the match thread last night was noticable.;)

Sappy404

barryd09 wrote: »

Proves my point from last week once again.

Massive-game-raising-cup-finalists

Liverpool FC.

So Liverpool drawing a must-win game in an actual cup competition "proves" your point that Liverpool only raise their game for important matches? A point which you originally made after a league win?

The Muppet

Kess73 wrote: »

Braga shall be crushed. Driven to the slaughter before the baying crowds. The air will echo with the sound of lamentation from their women.


They shall learn the riddle of steel, by Crom they will.




Liverpool 4 - 1 Sporting Braga

What I want to know is why did this not materialise?

Kess73

The Muppet wrote: »

What I want to know is why did this not materialise?

Depends on which bit you are talking about.

The footy result came about through Braga being far better than I expected them to be away from home, and Liverpool not playing as I hoped they would on the night.

Braga deserved their result over the two legs as they were the better team over 180 minutes.


But if you are asking about the picture of a dead muppet, well it is early days yet on that one Thomas.

Sappy404

The Muppet wrote: »

What I want to know is why did this not materialise?

Actually pillaging the town of Braga and murdering it's men would have been a tad uncalled for.

Really, though, "enthusiastic prediction is wrong" is as explanatory an answer as you're going to get.

SlickRic

The Muppet wrote: »

Good tactic, I love it , if you can't counter a pov , post a stupid picture or video.

Your absence from the match thread last night was noticable.;)

if you keep talking about people being disciples to Rafa and mindlessly following something, don't expect people to necessarily want to engage constructively with you.

not everyone has that patience.

someday you'll actually understand that Rafa didn't cause the vast majority of what is wrong currently with this club, though he takes his share of the blame for buying poorly, and having us play poorly, wheile he was on a tight budget he didn't see coming. he didn't do well enough.

you try to come across as some sort of bastion of truth when you come in here, as if one day you'll enlighten us as to what's actually been wrong with the club as if our supporters are delusional. the majority of us are not. but it's almost impossible to have a reasonable discussion with someone who...

1. doesn't want to ever admit his opinion might be a little flawed at times, and

2. who thinks he knows what's 'wrong with the club' better than the club's own supporters do.

The Muppet

Kess73 wrote: »

Depends on which bit you are talking about.

The footy result came about through Braga being far better than I expected them to be away from home, and Liverpool not playing as I hoped they would on the night.

Braga deserved their result over the two legs as they were the better team over 180 minutes.


But if you are asking about the picture of a dead muppet, well it is early days yet on that one Thomas.

I'm used to the unrealistic aspirations by now Kess.;)

Having watched the first leg I just couldn't see you thumping them, I though they had a good chance of getting the away goal which would have made your task quite difficult. I though a 2 1 to pool with braga going though was a likely outcome.

The Muppet

SlickRic wrote: »

if you keep talking about people being disciples to Rafa and mindlessly following something, don't expect people to necessarily want to engage constructively with you.

not everyone has that patience.

someday you'll actually understand that Rafa didn't cause the vast majority of what is wrong currently with this club, though he takes his share of the blame for buying poorly, and having us play poorly, wheile he was on a tight budget he didn't see coming. he didn't do well enough.

you try to come across as some sort of bastion of truth when you come in here, as if one day you'll enlighten us as to what's actually been wrong with the club as if our supporters are delusional. the majority of us are not. but it's almost impossible to have a reasonable discussion with someone who...

1. doesn't want to ever admit his opinion might be a little flawed at times, and

2. who thinks he knows what's 'wrong with the club' better than the club's own supporters do.

Ahh Bless

Sappy404

SlickRic wrote: »

if you keep talking about people being disciples to Rafa and mindlessly following something, don't expect people to necessarily want to engage constructively with you.

not everyone has that patience.

someday you'll actually understand that Rafa didn't cause the vast majority of what is wrong currently with this club, though he takes his share of the blame for buying poorly, and having us play poorly, wheile he was on a tight budget he didn't see coming. he didn't do well enough.

you try to come across as some sort of bastion of truth when you come in here, as if one day you'll enlighten us as to what's actually been wrong with the club as if our supporters are delusional. the majority of us are not. but it's almost impossible to have a reasonable discussion with someone who...

1. doesn't want to ever admit his opinion might be a little flawed at times, and

2. who thinks he knows what's 'wrong with the club' better than the club's own supporters do.

In fairness to The Muppet, he may not be a supporter of the club, but he's more obsessed with it than some supporters I know. Or at least, he spends more time obsessing over it.Not sure if there's a distinction.

K-9

SlickRic wrote: »

if you keep talking about people being disciples to Rafa and mindlessly following something, don't expect people to necessarily want to engage constructively with you.

not everyone has that patience.

someday you'll actually understand that Rafa didn't cause the vast majority of what is wrong currently with this club, though he takes his share of the blame for buying poorly, and having us play poorly, wheile he was on a tight budget he didn't see coming. he didn't do well enough.

you try to come across as some sort of bastion of truth when you come in here, as if one day you'll enlighten us as to what's actually been wrong with the club as if our supporters are delusional. the majority of us are not. but it's almost impossible to have a reasonable discussion with someone who...

1. doesn't want to ever admit his opinion might be a little flawed at times, and

2. who thinks he knows what's 'wrong with the club' better than the club's own supporters do.

Tbh I wouldn't worry about the Muppet, just WUM, but there's a fair few Pool fans that you just can't discuss this with too.

One or 2 blamed Rafa last night too!

The Muppet

Sappy404 wrote: »

In fairness to The Muppet, he may not be a supporter of the club, but he's more obsessed with it than some supporters I know. Or at least, he spends more time obsessing over it.Not sure if there's a distinction.

Not obsessed, Just enjoying the circus that's all

K-9 wrote: »

Tbh I wouldn't worry about the Muppet, just WUM, but there's a fair few Pool fans that you just can't discuss this with too.

One or 2 blamed Rafa last night too!

Well he did buy the majority of the dross on show last night did he not?

Kess73

The Muppet wrote: »

I'm used to the unrealistic aspirations by now Kess.;)

Having watched the first leg I just couldn't see you thumping them, I though they had a good chance of getting the away goal which would have made your task quite difficult. I though a 2 1 to pool with braga going though was a likely outcome.

Only thing that turned out to be unrealistic in my original post was my hope and prediction for last night's game.

But then again if I had felt that Liverpool would not win last night, I would probably have been met with a post about me not believing in the team I support.;)


At least the second part of my post was realistic though.:D

K-9

The Muppet wrote: »

Not obsessed, Just enjoying the circus that's all



Well he did buy the majority of the dross on show last night did he not?

Well seeing as he was manager for 5 years, yes. He also had to sell players as did Hodgson and Purslow and barring Meireles who Rafa was interested in anyway, the rest of the buys were crap.

There is no point discussing this with you as you learn nothing from it.

SlickRic

K-9 wrote: »

One or 2 blamed Rafa last night too!

i blame Rafa too.

but only a normal amount, as do the vast majority in here from what i've seen.

and to call people disciples just because they see the good he did for the club is another thing altogether.

but as you said, there's no point discussing it in certain quarters, because stuff that gets said gets forgotten conveniently a while later in the interests of a cheap dig when we're down.

The Muppet wrote: »

Ahh Bless

a very mature response i must say.

The Muppet

K-9 wrote: »

Well seeing as he was manager for 5 years, yes. He also had to sell players as did Hodgson and Purslow and barring Meireles who Rafa was interested in anyway, the rest of the buys were crap.

There is no point discussing this with you as you learn nothing from it.

Difficult to buy decent players when there' no money left because your predecessor has wasted all the money on dross.

The Muppet

SlickRic wrote: »

i blame Rafa too.

but only a normal amount, as do the vast majority in here from what i've seen.

and to call people disciples just because they see the good he did for the club is another thing altogether.

but as you said, there's no point discussing it in certain quarters, because stuff that gets said gets forgotten conveniently a while later in the interests of a cheap dig when we're down.



a very mature response i must say.

it was the response your post deserved, if you want a more indept one take it to pm.


I use the term rafa's diciples for a section of Poll fans not all , nobody can doubt their existance as we see above. If I was directing those comments at Pool fan's as a whole I would say so.

We get plenty of cheap digs here and we're not down.

NukaCola

The Muppet wrote: »

Difficult to buy decent players when there' no money left because your predecessor has wasted all the money on dross.

Sometimes i wonder if your serious when you post this stuff.........

K-9

The Muppet wrote: »

Difficult to buy decent players when there' no money left because your predecessor has wasted all the money on dross.

No money left? LOL And this was Rafa's fault. That whole ownership saga that you must have missed had a bit to do with that too.

Yeah, you're right The Muppet.

Wish you showed this much interest in your own clubs finances tbh.

SlickRic

The Muppet wrote: »

it was the response your post deserved, if you want a more indept one take it to pm.

it's really not worth my time.

---

either way, the main thing lacking last night was wingers, plain and simple. previous managers' inability to buy wide men really bites us in the ass in these types of games...and it'll be 10 times more obvious now we have Carroll; whose major attribute above all else is his ability to attack the ball in the air, which he'll never be able to do unless we get quality in from wide.

our control of the game was fine enough. we had the ball high enough up the pitch to start attacks, and had enough possession. but the lack of imagination, and the lack of an option to be able to just give it wide, put pressure on, and get crosses in, was just horrible.

we'll see about 40% of Carroll's capabilities, not even, if we continue to play the way we did last night.

The Muppet

BumbleBee123 wrote: »

Sometimes i wonder if your serious when you post this stuff.........

Have a look at how much new money Hodson and Kenny have been given to invest and you'll see if I'm serious or not.



Rafa had £104 Million nett over his time which is an average of £17 million a season plus whatever he got from sales on top of that.

Roy got nothing nor did Kenny except what they took in from sales and they didn't even get to reinvest all of that..

Kess73

The Muppet wrote: »

Difficult to buy decent players when there' no money left because your predecessor has wasted all the money on dross.

Nah in Hodgson's case it is difficult to buy decent players when your standards are much lower.

He brought in five players of his own during the summer, and only one was decent. All the rest fell into the short term older player catagory that he normally goes for.

But the Rafa comments are pretty much a waste of time at this point. He is well gone at this point, and the owners that were there in his time are gone as well.

Rafa is far from blameless during his time as manager, but his bad times are countered with some great moments.

This summer sees the start of a rebuilding programme (yet again), but at least I have some confidence in this rebuild based on the track record of the current owners.

I do think that this summer will see the start of quality players being bought again, and a clearout of rubbish players like Joe Cole, Skrtel etc, and also of players who are past their best due to age.

I also think that there will be a new manager appointed this summer, and I think it will be one of three, but if Kenny stays on I would be happy with that as well.

The Muppet

Kess73 wrote: »

Nah in Hodgson's case it is difficult to buy decent players when your standards are much lower.

He brought in five players of his own during the summer, and only one was decent. All the rest fell into the short term older player catagory that he normally goes for.

But the Rafa comments are pretty much a waste of time at this point. He is well gone at this point, and the owners that were there in his time are gone as well.

This summer sees the start of a rebuilding programme (yet again), but at least I have some confidence in this rebuild based on the track record of the current owners.

I do think that this summer will see the start of quality players being bought again, and a clearout of rubbish players like Joe Cole, Skrtel etc, and also of players who are past their best due to age.

I also think that there will be a new manager appointed this summer, and I think it will be one of three, but if Kenny stays on I would be happy with that as well.

How much was Hodgson given to spend on top of his sales?


I think Kenny will be given the job.

barryd09

liverpool fc....bahahahaha.

game-raising specialists.

Beat United,thats your season.

and i'll keep saying it,that IS your season.

SlickRic

barryd09 wrote: »

liverpool fc....bahahahaha.

game-raising specialists.

Beat United,thats your season.

and i'll keep saying it,that IS your season.

just because you keep saying it doesn't make it true.

ah, simplistic explanations for performances and results.

i sometimes love them the best.