Changes in HSE structure and doctor's pay?

DessieMG

With the proposed changes in the HSE by Labour and Fine Gael and talk of capping public sector wages at 200,000 would this mean that consultants and GP's would be hit, does his mean that it would be less financially advantageous to do medicine since it is a very demanding job and requires you to make a lot of sacrifices?

RobFowl

DessieMG wrote: »

With the proposed changes in the HSE by Labour and Fine Gael and talk of capping public sector wages at 200,000 would this mean that consultants and GP's would be hit, does his mean that it would be less financially advantageous to do medicine since it is a very demanding job and requires you to make a lot of sacrifices?

Some consultants would be hit (but a small minority) and GP's would not as they are not paid a salary...

opinion guy

DessieMG wrote: »

With the proposed changes in the HSE by Labour and Fine Gael and talk of capping public sector wages at 200,000 would this mean that consultants and GP's would be hit, does his mean that it would be less financially advantageous to do medicine since it is a very demanding job and requires you to make a lot of sacrifices?

Is financial advantage a reason you are thinking to do medicine ?
Because if so there are other things you can make more money in

spagboll

all the professions are tough going in the medium term tbf

rbrbrb

I hate people who pretend that good finances wasn't an attraction for them to do medicine. Of course it's something people are concerned about when thinking about taking up a career. It shouldn't be the basis of why you choose a career in medicine but it is perfectly ok for people to ask how much they might earn.

imported_guy

rbrbrb wrote: »

I hate people who pretend that good finances wasn't an attraction for them to do medicine. Of course it's something people are concerned about when thinking about taking up a career. It shouldn't be the basis of why you choose a career in medicine but it is perfectly ok for people to ask how much they might earn.

Un político pobre es un pobre político

a politician who is poor, is a poor politican

a doctor who is poor, is a poor doctor :cool:

opinion guy

imported_guy wrote: »

Un político pobre es un pobre político

a politician who is poor, is a poor politican

a doctor who is poor, is a poor doctor :cool:

Not too many of either in this country:D

Bella mamma

RobFowl wrote: »

Some consultants would be hit (but a small minority) and GP's would not as they are not paid a salary...

Isn't the plan to have 'free' GP care by 2016? What'll happen then? A capitation system that is 'capped'? Is that not a salary per se??

Bella mamma

rbrbrb wrote: »

I hate people who pretend that good finances wasn't an attraction for them to do medicine. Of course it's something people are concerned about when thinking about taking up a career. It shouldn't be the basis of why you choose a career in medicine but it is perfectly ok for people to ask how much they might earn.

Agree perfectly ok. On a personal note, never an attraction nor a consideration to this day. Quite happy with the simple life.

RobFowl

Bella mamma wrote: »

Isn't the plan to have 'free' GP care by 2016? What'll happen then? A capitation system that is 'capped'? Is that not a salary per se??

That is the system in the UK and GP's there are not salaried....
Similar in Canada, Austrailia and most countries with "Free" GP care

ttmd

OP

You seem to imply that anything below €200k (+ almost guaranteed employment) is not a high salary? I read recently that earning 70k sterling (€80k) will put you in the top 5% of earners in the UK.

Just because we wont be seeing 'The Fabulous Life of GPs and Consultants' on Mtv anytime soon does not mean these people are badly paid.

ttmd

rbrbrb wrote: »

I hate people who pretend that good finances wasn't an attraction for them to do medicine. Of course it's something people are concerned about when thinking about taking up a career. It shouldn't be the basis of why you choose a career in medicine but it is perfectly ok for people to ask how much they might earn.

+1

I do'nt like when people say its easier to earn a lot of money in other things, its pretty hard to earn a lot money in most things unless you work hard or you are very lucky.

ttmd

Bella mamma wrote: »

Agree perfectly ok. On a personal note, never an attraction nor a consideration to this day. Quite happy with the simple life.

I have doctors in the family who say roughly the same thing.

No sarcasm intended, but count yourself lucky if money worries or stable employment are not considerations - they would be attractions if you didnt have them.

tallaght01

One thing that has always amazed me as a doctor is how many people have an opinion on my salary yet very few have 1) any idea of what our salaries actually are, beyond the balls they read in the papers and 2) anything other than a muted opinion on what needs to be done to earn good money as a doctor (especially as a NCHD).

Bella mamma

ttmd wrote: »

I have doctors in the family who say roughly the same thing.

No sarcasm intended, but count yourself lucky if money worries or stable employment are not considerations - they would be attractions if you didnt have them.

I never said stable employment wasn't a consideration thank you very much. You don't know whether I live from month to month or not. And don't assume I'd be attracted to any job by money 'cos you're way off the mark on that one. Way off.

tallaght01

ttmd wrote: »

In all due respect the OP was implying that the pay at the top end of the profession is somehow insufficient.

I don't think they were, actually.

It's certainly less financially "advantageous" if their wages are cut, when the consultants can earn twice as much by leaving the public sector.

That's all they said.

GPs won't be affected.

ttmd

tallaght01 wrote: »

I don't think they were, actually.

It's certainly less financially "advantageous" if their wages are cut, when the consultants can earn twice as much by leaving the public sector.

That's all they said.

GPs won't be affected.

I deleted that post because the tone was a bit ratty and apologies for that.

stimpson

tallaght01 wrote: »

One thing that has always amazed me as a doctor is how many people have an opinion on my salary yet very few have 1) any idea of what our salaries actually are, beyond the balls they read in the papers

perhaps they can do a quick calculation in the waiting room. 6 x 10 minute appointments x 3 hours a day less expenses. An easier way is to see if they are driving a 3 series or a 5 series.

tallaght01

ttmd wrote: »

I deleted that post because the tone was a bit ratty and apologies for that.

Mate, you've gotta embrace the rage, or you'll go nuts :P

ttmd

Bella mamma wrote: »

I never said stable employment wasn't a consideration thank you very much. You don't know whether I live from month to month or not. And don't assume I'd be attracted to any job by money 'cos you're way off the mark on that one. Way off.

I just found your initial statement a bit flippant Bella. While money should be not be an overriding motivation for choosing any career, I do not think its good to be ambivalent about it either.

I have a brother who leaving architecture because he cant sustain himself, and any doc I know is at least sheltered from these sort of worries.

ttmd

tallaght01 wrote: »

I don't think they were, actually.

It's certainly less financially "advantageous" if their wages are cut, when the consultants can earn twice as much by leaving the public sector.

I think you are contradicting yourself when say is less financially advantageous to do medicine then. If you want the best money just go to the private sector and any cuts in the public sector is irrelevant.

I did find a implicit tone in the post that salaries below €200k were not enough to motivate people into medicine and it was not a job worth doing because of this?

imported_guy

stimpson wrote: »

perhaps they can do a quick calculation in the waiting room. 6 x 10 minute appointments x 3 hours a day less expenses. An easier way is to see if they are driving a 3 series or a 5 series.

a 3 series or a 5 series?

what are these peasant wagons you sepak of?

dont you know every doctor drives a bently?.... unless they actually prefer driving a rolls royce.... i actually dont like driving atall, if i was a doctor i'd.........









































.........now wheres my chauffeur :rolleyes:.... i've patients to see.... oh here he comes :rolleyes:

and on a more serious note ttmd, if you dont know how to make money in a profession other than medicine, you wont make money in medicine, and OP, if a doctor wants to make money instead of help people, he wouldnt be working for the government, take your pick, money vs self satisfaction.

Bella mamma

ttmd wrote: »

I just found your initial statement a bit flippant Bella. While money should be not be an overriding motivation for choosing any career, I do not think its good to be ambivalent about it either.

I have a brother who leaving architecture because he cant sustain himself, and any doc I know is at least sheltered from these sort of worries.

Flippant? Ambivalent?

So you're using these words to describe my motivation in life not being €€€. Ever heard of family, health, career satisfaction, work colleagues, qualify of life...........???

What a loada crap. "Sheltered" indeed.

imported_guy

Bella mamma wrote: »

Flippant? Ambivalent?

So you're using these words to describe my motivation in life not being €€€. Ever heard of family, health, career satisfaction, work colleagues, qualify of life...........???

What a loada crap. "Sheltered" indeed.

grass is always greener on the other side

ttmd

Bella mamma wrote: »

Flippant? Ambivalent?

So you're using these words to describe my motivation in life not being €€€. Ever heard of family, health, career satisfaction, work colleagues, qualify of life...........???

What a loada crap. "Sheltered" indeed.

I can see you are getting irritated but I do not see why you do not see my post as a valid criticism.

I do not advocate greed, but you say money is not a consideration?

You talk about family and its very important. But many people are unable to start families, send their children to good schools, and soon enough to universities without a job that pays well.

My brother would probably like to start a family but not being able to support it would crush him.

I have a cousins in America who are getting crippled by sending their kids through college. And yes that is the States for you, but things might be very different here in a decade.

imported_guy

ttmd wrote: »

I can see you are getting irritated but I do not see why you do not see my post as a valid criticism.

I do not advocate greed, by you said money is not a consideration?

You talk about family and its very important. But many people are unable to start families, send their children to good schools, and soon enough to universities without a well paying job.

My brother would probably like to start a family but not being able to support them would crush him.

I have a cousins in America who are getting crippled by sending their kids through college. And yes that is the States for you, but things might be very different here in a decade.

criticizing people's pay is real mature, it shows jealousy, and makes people look pathetic, i actually really think the media looks like a big huge idiot when they criticize bankers, politicans etc

"brian cowen is the highest paid head of government" bla bla bla, he doesnt even earn pocket change compared to some people, and that goes the same for bankers with huge pensions.

everyone has the ability to earn absurd ammount of money, if you're going to criticize what some one with a noble profession earns, shame on you.


FYI

people in america pay 1/4 as much tax as us, and in some areas the cost of living is 1/10th, learn how economics/publically funded edumacation works bro.

sam34

stimpson and others, this is not a forum for taking pot-shots at doctors about their earnings.

any further such posts will be deleted and the poster will be banned.

no further warnings.

RobFowl

stimpson wrote: »

perhaps they can do a quick calculation in the waiting room. 6 x 10 minute appointments x 3 hours a day less expenses. An easier way is to see if they are driving a 3 series or a 5 series.

I'm a GP a we provide 15 minute appointments !
3 hours of appointments (12 in total) in the morning and again in the afternoon. 1-2 hours after of phone calls, checking results, paperwork and management issues.
Throw in the odd housecall and it averages a 9-10 hour day (longest recently was 0900 to 0100 the next morning but that involved an on-call shift).
I drive a very nice Volvo (2004 though) and live in a nice house in an estate (not extravagant but I love it). Am of an age where we got half time for overtime as an NCHD and nothing after 32 hours overtime.
Set up my own practice and generally that means about 2 years with no net income.
GP's are certainly not poor but not overly rich these days either.
If you want to calculate income it's roughly 30-40% of turnover and a lot of the work (like phone calls) is unpaid.
It's a great career but is hard work.
Hospital medicine tends to pay better but means much longer stints as NCHD's.

Bella mamma

imported_guy wrote: »

grass is always greener on the other side

Hilarious! I wrote that as my last line but deleted it in case it might add fuel to the fire!!

RobFowl - PM me anytime you wanna trade in that 'very nice (2004) Volvo' for a 2002 Astra. You might need your sat nav to get to my 3-bed semi, or just follow the helicopters of a Saturday night!

FYI
Lived in California for 6 years. Happy to discuss the American University system on the Edu forum anytime. Quick. I'll go get the popcorn........this should be good! :cool:

tallaght01

ttmd wrote: »

I think you are contradicting yourself when say is less financially advantageous to do medicine then. If you want the best money just go to the private sector and any cuts in the public sector is irrelevant.

I did find a implicit tone in the post that salaries below €200k were not enough to motivate people into medicine and it was not a job worth doing because of this?

A) The cut in salaries is relevant to the substantial portion of hospital docs who don't do private work. I wouldn't do private work, and I think the vast majority (if not all) the regular doctor posters on here are public-only. A lot of doctors are not comfortable with treating patients based on their ability to pay. Robfowl, as a GP, will have private patients, but I remember him posting here ages ago about the high number of "bad debts", most of whom are not pursued for their debts (sorry if it wasn't robfowl, but it was a GP on here). So, for someone like me, who will never do private work, medicine is certainly less "financially advantageous".

I think you're seeing an implication in the OP because you want to. I cannot see how anyone could interpret the OP as saying that being a consultant is "not a job worth doing" because of the money.

irishh_bob

RobFowl wrote: »

I'm a GP a we provide 15 minute appointments !
3 hours of appointments (12 in total) in the morning and again in the afternoon. 1-2 hours after of phone calls, checking results, paperwork and management issues.
Throw in the odd housecall and it averages a 9-10 hour day (longest recently was 0900 to 0100 the next morning but that involved an on-call shift).
I drive a very nice Volvo (2004 though) and live in a nice house in an estate (not extravagant but I love it). Am of an age where we got half time for overtime as an NCHD and nothing after 32 hours overtime.
Set up my own practice and generally that means about 2 years with no net income.
GP's are certainly not poor but not overly rich these days either.
If you want to calculate income it's roughly 30-40% of turnover and a lot of the work (like phone calls) is unpaid.
It's a great career but is hard work.
Hospital medicine tends to pay better but means much longer stints as NCHD's.

GP,s and consultants in ireland are the second wealthiest in the world after the usa according to recent reports , enough with this false modesty crap about doctors incomes in this country , by international standards , medics in ireland are extremley wealthy

both GP,s and consultants operate in closed shops and are among the most sheltered ( if not thee most sheltered ) sectors of the economy