Changes in HSE structure and doctor's pay?

ericm84

dissed doc wrote: »

For weekends, it's ~ 56hrs in a row, but that was only ever 1 in 4 for me (1 in 3 usually with holidays for others).

Average is e.g., 32 + 10 + 10 + 10 = 62-65hrs for a MOnday - Friday with one on call

With two midweek on calls: 32 + 10 + 32 = 74-78hrs

With a weekend (no midweek calls - unlikely if on 1 in 4) = 10 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 56 (to Monday evening from Saturday morning) = ~106-110hrs (in a single week).

So I think the answer to my quesiton is yes....it is a lot worse in Ireland!! That is really insane that you work from sat morning until monday evening (and even that you have to work the next day after spending the night before on call).

The hours in the uk seems a bit better in terms of on call commitments (still roughly about the same 1-5 per week and then 1 weekend in 4) but you get the next day off.

I guess that's an intern timetable, does it get any better as you get to SHO/reg level?????

.....presuming it does as the intern would be 1st on call so as an sho/reg you can head for a bit of sleep once it quietens down and leave the intern to finish their jobs???????

take everything

ericm84 wrote: »

I guess that's an intern timetable, does it get any better as you get to SHO/reg level?????

.....presuming it does as the intern would be 1st on call so as an sho/reg you can head for a bit of sleep once it quietens down and leave the intern to finish their jobs???????

Reg yes.
SHO no. They are generally as shat upon as interns.

dissed doc

ericm84 wrote: »

I guess that's an intern timetable, does it get any better as you get to SHO/reg level?????

.....presuming it does as the intern would be 1st on call so as an sho/reg you can head for a bit of sleep once it quietens down and leave the intern to finish their jobs???????

As said above, probably at reg level or more it's better. SHO can actually be worse than intern; in surgery, outside of the Dublin/Cork/Galway teaching hospitals, the SHO in surgery was basically the A/E at nighttime - having done normal surgery the day from 8-5pm, then basically run the entire hospital through the night, and a "normal" work day again the next day from 8am-6pm. The SHO also has more responsibility than the intern who can defer to the SHO - but the SHO is under more pressure to be competent and not call the Registrar who could be kept in theatre all night doing the actual procedures. If the SHO is lucky, they might get to assist at night if A/E is quiet, and the intern runs around the wards doign phlebotomy and IV first doses.

spagboll

Are interns at the moment doing big hours and getting over time? What filters back to the schools is "we're getting ot now but ye guys are screwed"

karlitob

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Bachelor of Obstetrics isn't a real degree and shouldn't be implied to be one.

Well I'm glad you got the point of my argument. It hung on the BAO....foiled again.

gaeilgegrinds1

The new GP scheme aims to have a maximum turn-around time of 6minutes, it'll only lead to problems. Yes it'll be free but it'll be a rubbish system.

RobFowl

gaeilgegrinds1 wrote: »

The new GP scheme aims to have a maximum turn-around time of 6minutes, it'll only lead to problems. Yes it'll be free but it'll be a rubbish system.

Do you have any evidence for this?
AFAIK the final model has not been finalised and will be only partly based on the Dutch model. James Reilly has already ruled out fee per consultation funding which is the driver of short appointments.

ericm84

dissed doc wrote: »

As said above, probably at reg level or more it's better. SHO can actually be worse than intern; in surgery, outside of the Dublin/Cork/Galway teaching hospitals, the SHO in surgery was basically the A/E at nighttime - having done normal surgery the day from 8-5pm, then basically run the entire hospital through the night, and a "normal" work day again the next day from 8am-6pm. The SHO also has more responsibility than the intern who can defer to the SHO - but the SHO is under more pressure to be competent and not call the Registrar who could be kept in theatre all night doing the actual procedures. If the SHO is lucky, they might get to assist at night if A/E is quiet, and the intern runs around the wards doign phlebotomy and IV first doses.

That's pretty rough, and you can expect to be doing that for a few years (intern, sho and then reg)......what about if you didn't want to specialise could you spend the rest of your career as a locum?? Would this be a feasible career choice?

Just set yourself up in an area with a few hospitals, build relationships in these hospitals and sign up with a good agency and then pick and choose your shifts....(no mandatory night shifts, day's off when you want, very well paid....heard you can make over €100 an hour!!), obviously the downside is no job security but if most NCHD jobs are only 6 month contracts you could say there is not much job security there either?

Is this realistic? Does this happen much....people spend their entire career as a locum??

gaeilgegrinds1

I obviously have no evidence it will be rubbish as were merely expressing an opinion and yes, have a friend and relative both on different GP training systems who were being shown the bones of the Dutch system and told six minutes would be their average. Maybe it'll work better, we'll have to see.

dissed doc

ericm84 wrote: »

Is this realistic? Does this happen much....people spend their entire career as a locum??

It does happen, perhaps not for ever over 30 working years as typically even if locumming for a while someone feels the need for some security if they have a family, etc. ,. While you are single, it's fine, but you don't want to be uproting yoru kids every 6-12 months as the work moves. Also, you would likely be offered a position after a couple of years locum if you were well regarded.

It's not that unusual, you ahve to remember that only 1 in 10 graduates end up as specialists/consultants, and only a fraction of those actually in Ireland.

ericm84

dissed doc wrote: »

It's not that unusual, you ahve to remember that only 1 in 10 graduates end up as specialists/consultants, and only a fraction of those actually in Ireland.

Wow didn't think it was that low, so what do the rest do.....GP?? Stay at reg level their entire career??...research???

dissed doc

ericm84 wrote: »

Wow didn't think it was that low, so what do the rest do.....GP?? Stay at reg level their entire career??...research???

It came from a 10 year follow-up on graduates that I read a few years ago. Roughly speaking:

10% - specialists/consultants
50-60% - primary care GPs
20% - trainee/junior level
~10-20% - not practicing

It was in the Irish Medical News, maybe 3 or 4 years ago, I cant find the link.

Pugzilla

dissed doc wrote: »

It came from a 10 year follow-up on graduates that I read a few years ago. Roughly speaking:

10% - specialists/consultants
50-60% - primary care GPs
20% - trainee/junior level
~10-20% - not practicing

It was in the Irish Medical News, maybe 3 or 4 years ago, I cant find the link.

Wouldn't most of those graduates in the trainee/ juinor level group be 33-35 years old?

Considering the average age for an appointment to a consultant position is at 38 years old then 10 years is too short a time frame to find out if they're ultimately going to become specialists or not.