Say possible goodbye to religious symbols in the classroom. UPDATE: No Joy!

Biggins

partyatmygaff wrote: »

It's not pedantry. Arab people have no issue with Judaism as a religion or Jews as a people. They have issue with Israelis and Zionists and only them.

I'm avoiding diversifying into off topic stuff (of which I'm not helping anyway) so will just reply to the above if thats ok?

My point was that you wouldn't (or shouldn't) stick a symbol upon a a side/faction/religion that is possibly seeing it as offensive.
Another mad example: Would we react/feel if we were Jewish, to seeing a wall with swastika's shoved in front of us daily?

The point being that there is no fairness to it as some would see it and in others, they would additionally see it as an affront to their right to not desire such symbols enforced upon them given their heritage of possibly being disliked or considered undesirables.

Please note: I'm playing devils advocate here in some cases. I do so not to be a pain in the ass (which I can be sometimes) but to just throw out some alternative views so that maybe others can further contemplate their own and fortify them - and maybe too see where others on opposing sides might be coming from - even if one disagrees...

partyatmygaff

Biggins wrote: »

My point was that you wouldn't (or shouldn't) stick a symbol upon a a side/faction/religion that is possibly seeing it as offensive.

How is a cross for example "offending" anyone? If you aren't Christian it's just two perpendicular pieces of wood and has no more meaning than that.

Another mad example: Would we react/feel if we were Jewish, to seeing a wall with swastika's shoved in front of us daily?

Godwinned the thread...

Biggins

partyatmygaff wrote: »

How is a cross for example "offending" anyone? If you aren't Christian it's just two perpendicular pieces of wood and has no more meaning than that.

I wish that could be told to the nutters that are blowing themselves up and banning the preaching and/or practise of other religions.

partyatmygaff wrote: »

...Godwinned the thread...

I know. Sorry about that!

(P.S. Have you heard about Rome's latest stunt? Here)

partyatmygaff

Biggins wrote: »

I wish that could be told to the nutters that are blowing themselves up and banning the preaching and/or practise of other religions.

Yeah but these nutters aren't being offended by crosses on the side of walls. It's not the fact that people of other religions have the audacity to put religious symbols on the wall that fuels their hate. It's more the fact that other religions exist.

I know. Sorry about that!

We all make mistakes :P

RichieC

Godwin's law itself can be abused, as a distraction, diversion or even censorship, that fallaciously miscasts an opponent's argument as hyperbole, especially if the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate.

:P

kumate_champ07

Is the crucifix, the international symbol of ganster rap still allowed in the classroom?!

Biggins

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Yeah but these nutters aren't being offended by crosses on the side of walls. It's not the fact that people of other religions have the audacity to put religious symbols on the wall that fuels their hate. It's more the fact that other religions exist.

Yeah but they are using the existence of such items as further fuel to the fire of hatred.
Lets not give them the fuel and their fire has additionally less of material to burn upon!

partyatmygaff wrote: »

...We all make mistakes

That explains my existence so! Me poor ma has a lot to answer for!

PandyAndy

Italia wrote: »

Italia's long post from #151, not gonna quote it all

Couldn't agree more.

I wouldn't consider myself religious at all but I'm glad the law isn't being changed.

alex73

Well I for one a very pleased somebody has saw sense!!. 2000 years a Christian heritage should not be stripped from Europe because of a minority who does not believe.

partyatmygaff

Biggins wrote: »

Yeah but they are using the existence of such items as further fuel to the fire of hatred.
Lets not give them the fuel and their fire has additionally less of material to burn upon!

I guess so. But it's the equivalent of someone throwing a lump of charcoal in to a burning oil well in terms of significance tbh.

Biggins

alex73 wrote: »

Well I for one a very pleased somebody has saw sense!!. 2000 years a Christian heritage should not be stripped from Europe because of a minority who does not believe.

1. Your quite entitled to believe that.
2. We should never forget where we have come from, for it helps to makes us what and who we are.
(I've always believed that)

We do and are evolving as humans however, and who knows where human religious culture will be in 100 years to come.
Going on current directions, I deeply suspect things are going to be mighty changed.

(Very open to be wrong)

Italia

Biggins wrote: »

We do and are evolving as humans however, and who knows where human religious culture will be in 100 years to come.
Going on current directions, I deeply suspect things are going to be mighty changed.
(Very open to be wrong)

I agree 100%. However, having travelled extensively over large parts of this globe, I suspect that the 'current directions' are really only happening in Western culture.
Most other cultures are..how can I put it.. out of sync. One has simply to look at the split in the Anglican church over gay and women ministers.

partyatmygaff

Biggins wrote: »

We do and are evolving as humans however, and who knows where human religious culture will be in 100 years to come.
Going on current directions, I deeply suspect things are going to be mighty changed.

You can never truly predict the future.


Anyway as it stands, for Christianity at least there is a net increase of adherents every year. For every one person in the Western world that leaves their Religion three take their place from outside the Western World.

Biggins

partyatmygaff wrote: »

I guess so. But it's the equivalent of someone throwing a lump of charcoal in to a burning oil well in terms of significance tbh.

Again true but we have to start somewhere.
Just in relation to the afore mention 'radical' problem (and I don't wish to sidetrack too much if I can help it), but from one aspect, if we just concentrate on taking away the few larger offending items, we are still left with maybe a lot more of the smaller other fuelling items, smouldering away.

We have to start somewhere. so while working on maybe the big stuff, we should be mindful of the many (maybe a lot more other) smaller ones too.

Its just a thought...

partyatmygaff

Biggins wrote: »

Again true but we have to start somewhere.
Just in relation to the afore mention 'radical' problem (and I don't wish to sidetrack too much if I can help it), but from one aspect, if we just concentrate on taking away the few larger offending items, we are still left with maybe a lot more of the smaller other fuelling items, smouldering away.

We have to start somewhere. so while working on maybe the big stuff, we should be mindful of the many (maybe a lot more other) smaller ones too.

But the problem is that these radicals hold their beliefs merely because other Religions exist. Trying to bury the heritage of Europe in an attempt to appease them is futile.

Biggins

partyatmygaff wrote: »

...Anyway as it stands, for Christianity at least there is a net increase of adherents every year. For every one person in the Western world that leaves their Religion three take their place from outside the Western World.

Aye, and maybe thats why to some extent there is a constant ever ongoing 'war' it seems between some faiths.
One-upmanship and all that silly rubbish.

(...but maybe thats a heavy topic for another thread)

Dionysus

Biggins wrote: »

EU could ban religious symbols in classrooms



Personally (and this is NOT a go at just Rome and its org') I'm glad if this comes about.
One religion should not have preference over another when it comes to displays.
...That path only leads to resentment by some others and the eventual, sometimes deadly effects from that later.

I do like the symbolism of the St Brigid's Cross, and its possible pagan sunwheel origin. Making the Brigid's Cross for the start of spring (1 Feb) was one of the more memorable things about primary school.

Biggins

partyatmygaff wrote: »

But the problem is that these radicals hold their beliefs merely because other Religions exist. Trying to bury the heritage of Europe in an attempt to appease them is futile.

Maybe so, but at least we can be said to be trying.
They can't hold that against us - I hope!

Biggins

Dionysus wrote: »

I do like the symbolism of the St Brigid's Cross, and its possible pagan sunwheel origin. Making the Brigid's Cross for the start of spring (1 Feb) was one of the more memorable things about primary school.

Aye, I remember having to make them too.
Didn't bother me then, still don't now.

partyatmygaff

Biggins wrote: »

Maybe so, but at least we can be said to be trying.
They can't hold that against us - I hope!

There's no maybe about it. That's their reasoning. But that's for another thread.

Anyway, Europe is not cowardly. They shouldn't bow down to the demands of a few crazies who hate us in an attempt to appease them.

Biggins

partyatmygaff wrote: »

There's no maybe about it. That's their reasoning. But that's for another thread.

Anyway, Europe is not cowardly. They shouldn't bow down to the demands of a few crazies who hate us in an attempt to appease them.

No argument there.
Speaking just for myself, I'm willing to listen to other peace loving moderates.
Its the least I should do just to be fair.

R0ot

partyatmygaff wrote: »

That's restricting people's freedom of Religion and expression.

It's also restricting their right to be ignorant and a bunch of pr1icks.

partyatmygaff

R0ot wrote: »

It's also restricting their right to be ignorant and a bunch of pr1icks.

Wearing a crucifix now makes you ignorant and or a pr1ck?

R0ot

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Wearing a crucifix now makes you ignorant and or a pr1ck?

You said it, I didn't.

Pete M.

Biggins wrote: »

1. Your quite entitled to believe that.
2. We should never forget where we have come from, for it helps to makes us what and who we are.
(I've always believed that)

I believe this too, of course we come from our past, whatever it is.

Biggins wrote: »

We do and are evolving as humans however, and who knows where human religious culture will be in 100 years to come.
Going on current directions, I deeply suspect things are going to be mighty changed.

(Very open to be wrong)

Won't matter. Even you Biggins will be dead, gone, kaput in 100 years time and no-one will be able to prove to you that you were wrong.

You should ask your descendants to hold a seance to try to tell you though!

But you'll have been right of course because things will be radically different.

With regard to the crucifix etc., each to their own I reckon. I mean you see people wearing pentagrams and stuff, so why not crosses, fcuk it, why not even hammer & sickle and swastikas (but like this one...http://s-ak.buzzfed.com/static/imagebuzz/terminal01/2009/7/27/0/lol-swastika-1168-1248667265-3.jpg)

They are all but symbols and not something to get all riled up about.

I'm sure there are some up in my kids' school, but shur they take about as much heed of it as they do of, well the teacher I suppose, as in not a lot.

I was raised one of them, but I ain't no more, and neither are my offspring, so it doesn't bother me tbh

Maybe if I were from a different religious culture it would be different. But I can't see why Irish people from a catholic tradition would feel compelled to object to something like this. It definitely shouldn't be illegal to do it ffs
There are tonnes of things that shouldn't be illegal and they are, so why add something stupid like this.

I mean next thing they'll be trying to ban my sacred heart picture :eek::eek::eek:


I only have it because it could be The most economical single item in the Universe, if of course it means that I'm saved at The Rapture, even though I didn't believe in all that mumbo jumbo, so to speak.

Imagine for the few watts of electricity it costs to keep it burning, I'll be saved.

Good thinking eh? :pac:

philologos

R0ot wrote: »

It's also restricting their right to be ignorant and a bunch of pr1icks.

Here's one for you.