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Why exactly do people want a united Ireland?

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    #92
    sollar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭sollar


    PatricaMcKay wrote: »
    Yeah the Papists have two or three kids is the reason why they will make up 95 per cent of the waiting list by 2012?

    You couldnt make it up. :D

    Yeah it still stinks of the black north.


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    #93
    PatricaMcKay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 296 ✭✭PatricaMcKay


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    To be honest, the article goes down an odd root indeed anyway. Its people, not catholics. I don't see what difference their faith in believing in a god makes but anyway.

    I dont either....But explain the rationale behind Unionism and the policy of targeting any old person from a Roman Catholic background for murder that it had during the last northern insurgency than? :confused:


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    #94
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    PatricaMcKay wrote: »
    I dont either....But explain the rationale behind Unionism and the policy of targeting any old person from a Roman Catholic background for murder that it had during the last northern insurgency than? :confused:
    Eh? Are you going on about The Troubles?


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    #95
    PatricaMcKay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 296 ✭✭PatricaMcKay


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Eh? Are you going on about The Troubles?

    If another full blown insurgency breaks out in the occupied north are you telling me that Unionists wont be out there killing any old Papist again? Seriously?


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    #96
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    PatricaMcKay wrote: »
    If another full blown insurgency breaks out in the occupied north are you telling me that Unionists wont be out there killing any old Papist again? Seriously?
    You telling me the 'IRA' are going to not try to blow kids to bits? I don't see what the point is your making to be honest? Where is this discussion going? I'd like for it to get back on topic to be honest.


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    #97
    wingsof daun
    Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭wingsof daun


    PatricaMcKay wrote: »
    "Moderate" Unionists you will find tend to support the British Army where ever it goes and what ever it does, and the Brits in recent years have been more than happy to back up their NATO ally, just as they have an obscene love affair with the zionist settler state occupying Palestine. However corrupt and Imperialist loving the Free State regime in the 26 counties at least its not in NATO.

    Being in NATO is out of the question for us as a "neutral" country. We, as the 26 counties, are either for or against the Zionists and the American war machine, there is no in between - and all evidence points to the fact that they are for.
    Many unionists are brainwashed into believing the British army as their friend and protector against sectaranism etc. Those people are gradually seeing that all their work is not good.


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    #98
    PatricaMcKay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 296 ✭✭PatricaMcKay


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    You telling me the 'IRA' are going to not try to blow kids to bits? I don't see what the point is your making to be honest? Where is this discussion going? I'd like for it to get back on topic to be honest.

    The IRA went out of its way to avoid civilian causalities during the last insurgency and showed for the most part (the unit led by Billy McKee being a shameful expection) immense restraint in the face of brutal provocation, though many in the Republican movement thought they should have been even more restrained (as if that would have made any difference to the Unionists..:rolleyes:). You know well the point Im making. The six county statelet was founded on sectarianism, is in essence sectarian and therefore has to be completely dismantled with the rabid idealogly that has fueled it all these long years being completely destoried as a political force.


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    #99
    PatricaMcKay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 296 ✭✭PatricaMcKay


    wingsof daun wrote: »
    Being in NATO is out of the question for us as a "neutral" country. We, as the 26 counties, are either for or against the Zionists and the American war machine, there is no in between - and all evidence points to the fact that they are for.
    Many unionists are brainwashed into believing the British army as their friend and protector against sectaranism etc. Those people are gradually seeing that all their work is not good.

    http://www.indymedia.ie/article/80106 ...Some neutrality.

    It is a mistake that I personally made and Republicans generally make to see the Unionists as victims to be appeased and as hopelessly brainwashed so that they cant think straight, personally I find that attitude condescending to the point of bordering on sectarianism. They have brains and make decisions with them...Same as the rest of us.


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    #100
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    PatricaMcKay wrote: »
    The IRA went out of its way to avoid civilian causalities during the last insurgency and showed for the most part (the unit led by Billy McKee being a shameful expection) immense restraint in the face of brutal provocation, though many in the Republican movement thought they should have been even more restrained (as if that would have made any difference to the Unionists..:rolleyes:). You know well the point Im making. The six county statelet was founded on sectarianism, is in essence sectarian and therefore has to be completely dismantled with the rabid idealogly that has fueled it all these long years being completely destoried as a political force.
    Your just repeating yourself at the moment. We all know what the PIRA did and where about. We don't need to try and re write history. Im well aware of what they did. And the same with the UVF and UDA. We all know the history. It does not require re writing.


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    #101
    Scram
    Registered Users Posts: 683 ✭✭✭Scram


    Cause it harder to remember the names of the 6 counties...


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    #102
    PatricaMcKay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 296 ✭✭PatricaMcKay


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Y We all know what the PIRA did and where about.

    Actually most Unionists dont or at least pretend not to.

    And for the record Im not the greatest fan of Provisional movement at any stage of their history.


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    #103
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    PatricaMcKay wrote: »
    "Moderate" Unionists you will find tend to support the British Army where ever it goes and what ever it does, and the Brits in recent years have been more than happy to back up their NATO ally, just as they have an obscene love affair with the zionist settler state occupying Palestine. However corrupt and Imperialist loving the Free State regime in the 26 counties at least its not in NATO.

    Where do you learn these phrases of?

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #104
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    PatricaMcKay wrote: »
    Actually most Unionists dont or at least pretend not to.

    And for the record Im not the greatest fan of Provisional movement at any stage of their history.
    I think many of them do.


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    #105
    wingsof daun
    Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭wingsof daun


    PatricaMcKay wrote: »
    http://www.indymedia.ie/article/80106 ...Some neutrality.

    It is a mistake that I personally made and Republicans generally make to see the Unionists as victims to be appeased and as hopelessly brainwashed so that they cant think straight, personally I find that attitude condescending to the point of bordering on sectarianism. They have brains and make decisions with them...Same as the rest of us.

    Thanks for that article.
    It all goes back to the planters of the 1600's, their relatives still here, they should have accepted the Irish flag and our culture or else leave. I find it hard to see where N.Ireland is going, perhaps the occupation of N.Ireland was meant for our placing into Western civilization - which is the cultural-less, consumerism etc regime that America has been trying to implement into places like Iraq. There can be many reasons for this that I cant think of now


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    #106
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    wingsof daun wrote: »
    Thanks for that article.
    It all goes back to the planters of the 1600's, their relatives still here, they should have accepted the Irish flag and our culture or else leave. I find it hard to see where N.Ireland is going, perhaps the occupation of N.Ireland was meant for our placing into Western civilization - which is the cultural-less, consumerism etc regime that America has been trying to implement into places like Iraq. There can be many reasons for this that I cant think of now
    How do you get a million unionists off the island? :confused:


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    #107
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,339 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    Predator_ wrote: »
    Only in Ireland would such questions be asked. Could you image any other country where another country invades, breaks it up and someone asks 'Why would you want a united (country X)'.
    For any Irish Patriot this question is just dumb.

    Try applying the same logic to India and Pakistan. See how that goes for you....


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    #108
    PatricaMcKay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 296 ✭✭PatricaMcKay


    wingsof daun wrote: »
    Thanks for that article.
    It all goes back to the planters of the 1600's, their relatives still here, they should have accepted the Irish flag and our culture or else leave. I find it hard to see where N.Ireland is going, perhaps the occupation of N.Ireland was meant for our placing into Western civilization - which is the cultural-less, consumerism etc regime that America has been trying to implement into places like Iraq. There can be many reasons for this that I cant think of now

    Thats what a lot of Irish nationalists and Unionists say but I dont buy that, most of those who came over came over seperately from the plantations and were fleeing war and poverty in the lowlands of Scotland and northern England. A lot of northern Republicans have Scottish or English names (Sands, Livingstone, Adams, etc) and a lot of Unionists have Gaelic names. Also a lot of Ulster Irish Protestants spoke Irish as a first language into the 19 th century which shows that there was intergration ( http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/61/297.html )...The Unionism that we know today arose as a reaction against the United Irishmen and the birth of Irish Republicanism and has no essential connection to the war of the "Glorious Revolution".

    Unionism is simply a reaction to Irish Republicanism and nothing more.


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    #109
    wingsof daun
    Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭wingsof daun


    PatricaMcKay wrote: »
    Thats what a lot of Irish nationalists and Unionists say but I dont buy that, most of those who came over came over seperately from the plantations and were fleeing war and poverty in the lowlands of Scotland and northern England. A lot of northern Republicans have Scottish or English names (Sands, Livingstone, Adams, etc) and a lot of Unionists have Gaelic names. Also a lot of Ulster Irish Protestants spoke Irish as a first language into the 19 th century which shows that there was intergration ( http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/61/297.html )...The Unionism that we know today arose as a reaction against the United Irishmen and the birth of Irish Republicanism and has no essential connection to the war of the "Glorious Revolution".

    Unionism is simply a reaction to Irish Republicanism and nothing more.

    That;s a fair point.

    The United Irishmen - that was Wolfe Tone and co? From my memory. They were freemasons, which is rather startling to some people. I believe this shadowy group always has some hidden motive they try to accomplish.
    Maybe that was off the point....I think the IRA's activitie;s led to British army interference in our country, maybe the British gov needed and IRA of sorts to justify a British troop occupation?


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    #110
    PatricaMcKay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 296 ✭✭PatricaMcKay


    wingsof daun wrote: »
    That;s a fair point.

    The United Irishmen - that was Wolfe Tone and co? From my memory. They were freemasons, which is rather startling to some people.

    Yes Wolfe Tone and Henry Joy et al.

    Thats a good question which I have never really looked into about the influence of Freemasonary over them. Freemasonary meant different things at different places and times. Certainly many of those involved in the French revolution (which remember was the inspiration for the 1798 rebellion in Ireland) were members of Lodges because they were places were you could discuss things freely which certainly wasnt possible everywhere under the Ancien Regime. It also played a great role in the American revolution. So I would presume given that fact that many of the United Irishmen within the leadership were Enlightment Free thinkers that it must have played some part. To what extent I dont know and it might be difficult to find out...However I would be very suspicious of people who would claim Freemasonary is some homogenous conspiracy...The Orange Order is also Freemasonic and Freemasonary in England tended to be tied up with the establishment so maybe there wasnt much influence.


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    #111
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    The turn this thread has taken is exactly why NI will not have any kind of normal economic development in the near future - no matter what the topic, the debate always ends up in the same place.


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    #112
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    PatricaMcKay wrote: »
    What days did you say have truelly gone?

    Cough, cough.... http://www.belfastmedia.com/news_article.php?ID=4876

    The Orange state remains what it always was.

    Yes those orange bastards in the sdlp are a disgrace :rolleyes:


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    #113
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Where is irrelevant. By whom is the more pertinent question, and what would be by the people of Ireland, and not by a foreign parliament.

    Actully its quite relevant


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    #114
    PatricaMcKay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 296 ✭✭PatricaMcKay


    junder wrote: »
    Yes those orange bastards in the sdlp are a disgrace :rolleyes:

    What are the SDLP doing? Administrating British rule. They are not in charge...And the fact that 95 per cent of those on the housing list will be from Roman Catholic backgrounds says all that needs to be said.

    This will put things into context for those who have eyes to see...

    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/row-over-housing-plan-for-old-army-base-at-belfast-interface-15114234.htm


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    #115
    -Vega-
    Registered Users Posts: 662 ✭✭✭-Vega-


    Can we still be facebook friends?


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    #116
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    PatricaMcKay wrote: »
    What are the SDLP doing? Administrating British rule. They are not in charge...And the fact that 95 per cent of those on the housing list will be from Roman Catholic backgrounds says all that needs to be said.

    This will put things into context for those who have eyes to see...

    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/row-over-housing-plan-for-old-army-base-at-belfast-interface-15114234.htm

    The housing exec is part of Margaret Ritchies department, so unless the sdlp are actively discriminating against Catholics then it has more to do with the segregation of housing. Although Alex Attwood as just announced the building of 200 houses on the grounds of girdwood barracks so I am sure that will help with the waiting list


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    #117
    PatricaMcKay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 296 ✭✭PatricaMcKay


    junder wrote: »
    The housing exec is part of Margaret Ritchies department, so unless the sdlp are actively discriminating against Catholics then it has more to do with the segregation of housing. Although Alex Attwood as just announced the building of 200 houses on the grounds of girdwood barracks so I am sure that will help with the waiting list

    Segregation in housing a direct production of the occupation as is the fact that its those from a Roman Catholic background who are over whelming in need of house. The DUP will most likely sucessfully block the building of those houses on the girdwood barracks also. Despite the photo opportunities and the hype of Perversional Shame Fein there has been little or no social and economic for Republican and nationalist Belfast for the better, indeed the pacification process could be said to actually changed things for the worse.


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    #118
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    There is plenty of housing in cities like Belfast. The problem is, there is no rule of law, so people can't move into depopulated Loyalist-dominated areas without fear of being burned out of their homes.

    In normal cities, as areas depopulate and devalue, new people can move in, often young people moving into their first house. This is simply not the case in Belfast, although people have gravitated to 'mixed' areas on the edges of Loyalist estates. Ballynafeigh in South Belfast is a good example of this.

    Personally I think the whole 'housing estate' issue is problematic in that it concentrates poverty and fosters insularity. This is exactly why a lot of countries have shifted to voucher systems, and/or focused on 'mixed development' mandating that a certain number of units in each new development be set aside for those who need housing assistance.

    While I understand why the housing issue has mattered in the past, the state simply cannot afford to build two of everything or have parallel services because the two communities in the north cannot get along or even compromise enough to ensure that their children have access to libraries, recreational facilities, or a decent home. And this kind of intransigence is exactly why NI is and will continue to be an economic basketcase: no tax policy in the world is enough to overcome the lack of infrastructure, statist mindset of local politicians, and basic lack of tolerance that continue to retard growth and development.


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    #119
    PatsytheNazi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭PatsytheNazi


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    How do you get a million unionists off the island? :confused:
    As has been pointed out to the onionists umpteenth times, their's never been a million unionists in Ireland, more like 800,000 at most -if even that.

    But ofcourse entrapping 700,000 nationalists is ok with you crowd isn't it.

    And how come you abounded tens of thousands of fellow unionists in Donegal, Dublin (where Carson was from) to the new Free Sate with barely a thought ?


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    #120
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    PatsytheNazi wrote: »
    As has been pointed out to the onionists umpteenth times, their's never been a million unionists in Ireland, more like 800,000 at most -if even that.

    But ofcourse entrapping 700,000 nationalists is ok with you crowd isn't it.

    And how come you abounded tens of thousands of fellow unionists in Donegal, Dublin (where Carson was from) to the new Free Sate with barely a thought ?
    Don't tell me that. Tell Martin Mcguinness, he said it himself.

    It seems in the republican movement amongst supporters, one republican like Martin says one thing, if a republican don't like it, he must refute it.

    :confused:

    Also, Catholics trying to move in loyalist estates would be rather silly really. Why would they want to live amongst loyalists with the estate full of loyalist memorials and murals?


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    #121
    PatsytheNazi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭PatsytheNazi


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Don't tell me that. Tell Martin Mcguinness, he said it himself.

    It seems in the republican movement amongst supporters, one republican like Martin says one thing, if a republican don't like it, he must refute it.

    :confused:
    Quote and link :confused:


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