Responsible Parenting: Dad turns in own kids for bullying.

Chaotic_Forces

Snakeblood wrote: »

You can't break the law and expect to get away with it. I thought that was the basis of your anti Ming argument. Bit of consistency please.

Haha, I was actually just thinking that myself. Good memory.

Stinicker

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

Two things you aren't realizing. Their father wore glasses as a child nad he too, was probably bullied. You don't know how bad kids can be bullied, if they don't see a true punishment for their actions then they'll just repeat them.

At the age of 15 and 17 they are well aware of what happens by breaking someone's jaw; they deserve to have a record for it. It's not as if they just threw a few insults or even broke his glasses. They acted like thugs and should be treated like such.

Oh and... you're actually saying it's a problem that he "grassed" on them? Seriously? :eek:

I myself was severely bullied as a child in school, physically, emotionally and socially. This was quite a while ago, I see my former tormentors regularly and I think they are being punished on an almost daily for it, not by me but how their lifes turned out.

As a result of my own bullying I was no angel and had many a scuffle against said bullies, with my own father teaching me some boxing from his own days as a youth boxer, a cracked cheek bone for my main bully and me learning to fight back quickly resolved my bullying problem.

I do still think it is a problem that a father would take his own children to the police, there is something almost hard-wired into us to protect our own and if your own father hasn't got your back then it is pretty messed up.

steddyeddy

fair play to the dad but if I had kids like that I would bring them too a psychiatrist first

Chaotic_Forces

Snakeblood wrote: »

You can't break the law and expect to get away with it. I thought that was the basis of your anti Ming argument. Bit of consistency please.

Biggins wrote: »

1. As they are under 18 their records will be closed/wiped clean when they reach 18.
2. Better to show them the consequences of their actions now and explain why it is wrong - than let them get away with it and let them build up a confidence that they can slowly but surely possibly get away with more and more...

Sometimes as a parent in the short term, you have to be cruel to be kind in effort for the long term.

Really?! That's terrible. So, assuming it was the son who broke the kid's jaw, he's got less than a year and he gets a clean slate?

Chaotic_Forces

Stinicker wrote: »

I myself was severely bullied as a child in school, physically, emotionally and socially. This was quite a while ago, I see my former tormentors regularly and I think they are being punished on an almost daily for it, not by me but how their lifes turned out.

As a result of my own bullying I was no angel and had many a scuffle against said bullies, with my own father teaching me some boxing from his own days as a youth boxer, a cracked cheek bone for my main bully and me learning to fight back quickly resolved my bullying problem.

I do still think it is a problem that a father would take his own children to the police, there is something almost hard-wired into us to protect our own and if your own father hasn't got your back then it is pretty messed up.

Yes but self defense is okay. You were being physically attacked, you learned to defend yourself. Now, if you ended up going haywire and basically leaving the bullies in hospital then it would have been your father's fault for not teaching you that even though you can fight, you ought to have restraint.

And think of it this way: if they think they can go around bullying and beating up kids, who's to say the kid's older brother won't come along and leave those two in wheelchairs for beating up his sibling?

Spudmonkey

Fair play to their father. Who knows what kind of effect that bullying would have on that poor kid down the road. Little ****s deserve everything they get.

senordingdong

I don't think there will be any real consequences of this but atleast the father is trying.
Even if he only is putting the ****s up them.

Biggins

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

Really?! That's terrible. So, assuming it was the son who broke the kid's jaw, he's got less than a year and he gets a clean slate?

Sadly in some cases, depending on the severity of the crime committed, thats the case.
But at least while the chap is young and impressionable, he might just learn his lesson.
We can only hope.

whatdoicare

Everyone is giving out about the kids being dragged to jail and getting a criminal record-
they were going to get one anyway when the parents of the bullied kid called the cops on them! Duh! If I was that kids parent I'd sure as hell call the cops for breaking my kids jaw!
The father made an excellent choice and it will probably work in their favour when it goes to court. They won't thank him for it now but when they're older they'll realise what a sacrifice he made for them in the long run.

Aoifey!

That must have been hard for him to do, I'm sure he'll get the silent treatment from his kids for quite sme time but hopefully they'll see in a year or 2 that it was the right thing to do.

Snakeblood

Biggins wrote: »

Sadly in some cases, depending on the severity of the crime committed, thats the case.
But at least while the chap is young and impressionable, he might just learn his lesson.
We can only hope.

He's learned that he's on his own when he does stuff like that, his family aren't going to cover for him, that's a good lesson there.

dreamers75

Overheal wrote: »

They won't talk to him in a couple years

Probably but you can only raise kids to either know right from wrong, you cant make/force them to pick. Thats their decison and one they should shoulder any reaction from.

Fair play to the dad if it was mine i would have broken both their jaws and had a thread on after hours about how much of a bastard father i was

Chaotic_Forces

Biggins wrote: »

Sadly in some cases, depending on the severity of the crime committed, thats the case.
But at least while the chap is young and impressionable, he might just learn his lesson.
We can only hope.

I know it's England and this is going back to about 8 years ago but I always thought if the crime was given a sentence over time, that they would continue it from a... youth detention center (I dunno what we call them here) onto prision at 17?

Hopefully both kids will grow up soon and become decent people.

whatdoicare wrote: »

Everyone is giving out about the kids being dragged to jail and getting a criminal record-
they were going to get one anyway when the parents of the bullied kid called the cops on them! Duh! If I was that kids parent I'd sure as hell call the cops for breaking my kids jaw!
The father made an excellent choice and it will probably work in their favour when it goes to court. They won't thank him for it now but when they're older they'll realise what a sacrifice he made for them in the long run.

True but not all victims can speak up if they're being bullied.

whatdoicare

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

True but not all victims can speak up if they're being bullied.

What? I said the dad was right to do what he did. Your reply makes no sense....

Eve_Dublin

Jaysus, wouldn't you be gutted if you had kids like that?

Chaotic_Forces

whatdoicare wrote: »

What? I said the dad was right to do what he did. Your reply makes no sense....

Ah, right. I meant the about the part of the kid's parents would find out. If he was being servely bullied he might be scared to say what really happened, assuming of course that his parents didn't know.

Chaotic_Forces

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Jaysus, wouldn't you be gutted if you had kids like that?

Or gut them.

whatdoicare

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

Ah, right. I meant the about the part of the kid's parents would find out. If he was being servely bullied he might be scared to say what really happened, assuming of course that his parents didn't know.

In this case, they broke his jaw- the dad was already informed of his kids behaviour the week before - the dad caught his kids in the act and then delivered the kid home to his folks -the parents were going to figure it out even if little johnny didn't utter a word. I didn't say anything about other cases, I'm talking about this case, the one the OP is speaking about.

Wolfe Tone

Fair play to the dad.

Misty Chaos

I too am in agreement with what the father did, I know how it feels to be bullied and hate the fact that most parents of such kids wouldn't do anything about it either due to incompetence or delusion.

I'd be one person to buy him a drink.

Chaotic_Forces

whatdoicare wrote: »

In this case, they broke his jaw- the dad was already informed of his kids behaviour the week before - the dad caught his kids in the act and then delivered the kid home to his folks -the parents were going to figure it out even if little johnny didn't utter a word. I didn't say anything about other cases, I'm talking about this case, the one the OP is speaking about.

I actually didn't of that it would be so obvious, I feel stupid.

You are right.

whatdoicare

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

I actually didn't of that it would be so obvious, I feel stupid.

You are right.

Ah, no worries! Hugs for you :hug:

Einhard

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

Anyone who gives someone else a broken jaw through bullying at the age of 15 or 17 deserves to be on a chain-gang. The Hell would I be happy working with someone who's a violent bully.

I think that ignores the fact that people can change. I know some people who used to be scumbags in school, and who are now settled down, living respectable lives. biggins cleared it up about having their records wiped.

Snakeblood wrote: »

You can't break the law and expect to get away with it. I thought that was the basis of your anti Ming argument. Bit of consistency please.

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

Haha, I was actually just thinking that myself. Good memory.

You know, you really have to try hard to miss the distinction there. I never claimed that the kids should be immune from prosecution; I stated that the father shouldn't have been the one to initiate it. There's a pretty huge difference in the two points I was making.

And I wasn't making an "anti-Ming" argument.

Chaotic_Forces

Einhard wrote: »

I think that ignores the fact that people can change. I know some people who used to be scumbags in school, and who are now settled down, living respectable lives. biggins cleared it up about having their records wiped.





You know, you really have to try hard to miss the distinction there. I never claimed that the kids should be immune from prosecution; I stated that the father shouldn't have been the one to initiate it.

And I wasn't making an "anti-Ming" argument.

I don't think their records should be wiped, at the age of 15 and 17 they knew well what they were doing.

It sounded like you were saying the kids shouldn't have been turned in by their father. But the problem was that your argument about Ming was that he should be under arrest because he broke the law. It technically shouldn't matter who turns the criminal in; once they break the law they should be turned in.

Ectoplasm

Stinicker wrote: »

I do still think it is a problem that a father would take his own children to the police, there is something almost hard-wired into us to protect our own and if your own father hasn't got your back then it is pretty messed up.

See, this is where I'd disagree - not that a father shouldn't have your back, but that him taking them to the police and showing them that actions have consequences is not an example of the father having their back.

They're still teenagers - what they did was fúcking awful and they deserve to be punished. We all know what teenagers can be like with regards to listening to their parents. This father showed them that what they did was wrong, criminally wrong and isn't soft soaping the reality of what they did.

I know had my Dad taken me to the cops I'd have been devestated - but what would have gotten to me the most is just how awful I had to have been for him to do that. It would have been a wake up that no amount of groundings or denial of stuff could ever have matched up to.

I think this father absolutely had their back - he has shown them that actions have consequences at an age where they are still young enough to really learn from it AND be able to move on from it. How much worse would it be had he waited? His son then assaults someone, is tried as an adult and has an adult record that would follow him the rest of his life.

I applaud what the father did. If more parents took this kind of stance - a stance that clearly shows their kids that there is right and wrong and lines you don't cross, I think the world would be a far better place.

Chaotic_Forces

EMF2010 wrote: »

See, this is where I'd disagree - not that a father shouldn't have your back, but that him taking them to the police and showing them that actions have consequences is not an example of the father having their back.

They're still teenagers - what they did was fúcking awful and they deserve to be punished. We all know what teenagers can be like with regards to listening to their parents. This father showed them that what they did was wrong, criminally wrong and isn't soft soaping the reality of what they did.

I know had my Dad taken me to the cops I'd have been devestated - but what would have gotten to me the most is just how awful I had to have been for him to do that. It would have been a wake up that no amount of groundings or denial of stuff could ever have matched up to.

I think this father absolutely had their back - he has shown them that actions have consequences at an age where they are still young enough to really learn from it AND be able to move on from it. How much worse would it be had he waited? His son then assaults someone, is tried as an adult and has an adult record that would follow him the rest of his life.

I applaud what the father did. If more parents took this kind of stance - a stance that clearly shows their kids that there is right and wrong and lines you don't cross, I think the world would be a far better place.

I agree completely. A smaller consequence now is much better than a bigger one later in life.

u_c_thesecond

positron wrote: »

Source: http://www.qt.com.au/story/2011/03/18/ipswich-dad-turns-in-kids-bullying-crime/



Much respect to the man. I wish more parents were like this!

You know what- fair bloomin play- too many parents of bullies go to the "They have issues and/or are finding it hard to express emotions" route and its great to see a parent do this.

I would do the same (and im not just saying this) I cant stand bullying, i was never bullied nor was i ever one, but my niece was recently bullied for being "too tall" and the rage i felt when i found out is prob not close to what id feel if i found out my child was inflicting that on another person.

Ev84

Ev84 wrote: »

They will more than likely thank their father when they get older for leading them down the right path and onto a better life. I hear what you're saying and all but sure if he defended them after that what would they do next? You have to be cruel to be kind. He doesn't want his kids turning out like the scumbags who bullied him when he was young. It's completely understandable.

Einhard wrote: »

I don't really agree with this to be honest, and I think the father may well regret his actions. Sure, the punks needed to be punished, and taught a lesson, but they face the possibility now of criminal convictions, and a record which may hinder their chances of obtaining employment for years to come.

I know what you are saying Einhard but they will not have a permanent record after this. I've done a few things in my youth that were illegal, Got caught for them (damn cctv!) and driven to the garda barracks by my dad (after a phone call from the gardai), he then sat on the same side as the garda who was giving out s**t to me and as I was in the wrong, with proof, he would not say a single word to defend me.

He used to be joining in on the garda's side to tell me I can't be doing these things. FOR MY OWN GOOD. I've gotten warnings, followed by cautions followed by more serious cautions and not once did he ever back up for me as I was always in the wrong with proof. I hated him for it at the time but I understand it all now and I respect him for it. I learned from it.

If there was ever a shred of doubt in his mind that I didn't do anything he would be the first to back me up 100% but there was always proof. When you're in the wrong, you're in the wrong and he showed me that I wouldn't be getting his support at all. This was hard for me to take in at the time.

So a couple of years passed and when I reached 18 I had no record, no court cases pending and a completely clean slate. Had he supported me when I was in the wrong who knows what way I would have turned out? I will do the same for my son if or when he breaks the law...

Einhard

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

I don't think their records should be wiped, at the age of 15 and 17 they knew well what they were doing.

I know they did. I'm not defending them at all. However, gaining criminal records could have blighted their chances of ever changing, of gaining employment, and making something of themselves.

Anyway, the point is moot, as biggins noted.

It sounded like you were saying the kids shouldn't have been turned in by their father.

Well, until I found out about the wiping of records, I thought he may well have come to regret it.

But the problem was that your argument about Ming was that he should be under arrest because he broke the law. It technically shouldn't matter who turns the criminal in; once they break the law they should be turned in.

No, my argument wasn't that Ming should be under arrest. I've no desire to see the man up in court. However, I don't believe that people should have the right to just ignore any law they wish. As I noted, that's entirely different to what I said about the two bullies.

Chaotic_Forces

Einhard wrote: »

I know they did. I'm not defending them at all. However, gaining criminal records could have blighted their chances of ever changing, of gaining employment, and making something of themselves.

Anyway, the point is moot, as biggins noted.



Well, until I found out about the wiping of records, I thought he may well have come to regret it.



No, my argument wasn't that Ming should be under arrest. I've no desire to see the man up in court. However, I don't believe that people should have the right to just ignore any law they wish. As I noted, that's entirely different to what I said about the two bullies.

Sure... it's moot. :rolleyes:

It isn't different at all. Ming isn't above the law, neither are the two kids. If I turn in Ming and the father turns in the kids does that make me better than him?