DogsUnleashed

Squall19

Not all northern breeds have to be on a lead at all times, my Siberian/Alaskan Mal husky mix has been off the lead since he was 3 months ( with a muzzle from 8 months, for peace of mind ) and he doesn't bother other dogs.

I always leave him off when he is at the beach, in the woods etc.Love watching him at full flight, so elegant and quick.

So sad seeing those beautiful powerful animals tied up all there lives, I was warned not to, but I knew he would learn to behave himself from his golden retriever sister Mischa.

I am not well off with a big garden, so he had to learn;)

If restricted breeds like shepards, akita's etc are muzzled and under some control I have no problem with them off the lead at the beach as well.

Annoys me when idiots come over and tell me to put him on the lead, when he has a muzzle and is not interfering with anyone.

ISDW

Squall19 wrote: »

Not all northern breeds have to be on a lead at all times, my Siberian/Alaskan Mal husky mix has been off the lead since he was 3 months ( with a muzzle from 8 months, for peace of mind ) and he doesn't bother other dogs.

I always leave him off when he is at the beach, in the woods etc.Love watching him at full flight, so elegant and quick.

So sad seeing those beautiful powerful animals tied up all there lives, I was warned not to, but I knew he would learn to behave himself from his golden retriever sister Mischa.

I am not well off with a big garden, so he had to learn

If restricted breeds like shepards, akita's etc are muzzled and under some control I have no problem with them off the lead at the beach as well.

Annoys me when idiots come over and tell me to put him on the lead, when he has a muzzle and is not interfering with anyone.

he had to learn? You were advised not to do it, probably by people who know the breeds really well, but you know better than every single breed club and breed welfare organisation in the world. Well I honestly hope that you don't regret it. Nobody has ever said that they won't come back sometimes, but then all it takes is that one time when they get the scent of something, or see something you don't, and they're gone. A farmer won't care if a dog is muzzled if he sees it in a field of sheep, its the chasing that is as dangerous to the livestock as anything else.

I am sick to death of the off lead discussion for northern breeds. I also thought, when I got my first two sibes that I knew better than people who have had these dogs for years. Luckily for my two they escaped with their lives - but only just. The pair of them are incredibly obedient but no way on earth will I take a risk now with any of my dogs' lives.

Your first line is really confusing, the issue is not and never has been about them bothering other dogs. Its about the prey drive that is hard wired into them kicking in, and them disappearing over the horizon with you unable to keep up with them. I've lost count of the number of phone calls and emails I've received from people about their sibes or mals - they alway came back before, I don't understand why they've run away/chased those sheep/got run over this time.

Its your dog, nobody can make you be a responsible owner, just such a shame that its always the dog that pays for the owner's arrogance.

DBB

I talked to a friend of mine earlier who has taken in a dog that was attacked by a group other dogs whilst running free whilst muzzled. Obviously, he was unable to defend himself. He was 3 weeks in the vets and very, very lucky to survive.
Scary thing is, this isn't the first time I've heard of this happening.
Personally, I'd never allow a dog off-leash whilst muzzled. They are exceptionally vulnerable. If it goes wrong for him, it can go horribly wrong.

Squall19

ISDW wrote: »

he had to learn? You were advised not to do it, probably by people who know the breeds really well, but you know better than every single breed club and breed welfare organisation in the world. Well I honestly hope that you don't regret it. Nobody has ever said that they won't come back sometimes, but then all it takes is that one time when they get the scent of something, or see something you don't, and they're gone. A farmer won't care if a dog is muzzled if he sees it in a field of sheep, its the chasing that is as dangerous to the livestock as anything else.

I am sick to death of the off lead discussion for northern breeds. I also thought, when I got my first two sibes that I knew better than people who have had these dogs for years. Luckily for my two they escaped with their lives - but only just. The pair of them are incredibly obedient but no way on earth will I take a risk now with any of my dogs' lives.

Your first line is really confusing, the issue is not and never has been about them bothering other dogs. Its about the prey drive that is hard wired into them kicking in, and them disappearing over the horizon with you unable to keep up with them. I've lost count of the number of phone calls and emails I've received from people about their sibes or mals - they alway came back before, I don't understand why they've run away/chased those sheep/got run over this time.

Its your dog, nobody can make you be a responsible owner, just such a shame that its always the dog that pays for the owner's arrogance.

I would prefer him to be free and having fun, than tied up all his life like a lab rat.

If he runs off and gets shot by a farmer, then so be it.At least he a few adventures in his short life.

He would have lived a little anyway, its very sad for me seeing strong powerful dogs like that being dragged around on the lead.

They are not poddle's!!, they are pack dogs bred to run, so I dont know why you are taking higher ground with me, like you are better than me or something.


Why did you buy one then, if you knew it would be tied up all its life?

Kinda cruel you don't think?

How would you like to be on a lead your whole life?

I took a chance and so far it's worked, I have every confidence it will keeping working, his prey drive is no stonger than my retriever's so I hope he will be fine.

Loads of people have northern breeds that are free, takes hard work and trust but nothing is impossible.

Like people, dogs can learn.Nothing is written in stone.

I will continue to have great enjoyment out of him at full stride, eating up the ground at the beach, nothing makes me happier than seeing him clocking up the miles, it's what he was bred to do.

DBB

Squall19 wrote: »

If he runs off and gets shot by a farmer, then so be it.At least he a few adventures in his short life.

Despite having plenty of material to draw from, I think that has to be one of the most ignorant comments I have ever seen anyone writing on a pet-related internet forum.

FYI, Poddles, or as I prefer to call them, Poodles, were originally bred to be water gundogs. They have the energy to match any gundog breed. And brains to burn.

Cherry Blossom

Squall19 wrote: »

Why did you buy one then, if you knew it would be tied up all its life?

FYI :
ISDW = Irish Sled Dog Welfare, when you finally loose your dog, who do you think is going to end up with it? :rolleyes:

Shanao

Squall19 wrote: »

I would prefer him to be free and having fun, than tied up all his life like a lab rat.

If he runs off and gets shot by a farmer, then so be it.At least he a few adventures in his short life.

He would have lived a little anyway, its very sad for me seeing strong powerful dogs like that being dragged around on the lead.

They are not poddle's!!, they are pack dogs bred to run, so I dont know why you are taking higher ground with me, like you are better than me or something.


Why did you buy one then, if you knew it would be tied up all its life?

Kinda cruel you don't think?

How would you like to be on a lead your whole life?

I took a chance and so far it's worked, I have every confidence it will keeping working, his prey drive is no stonger than my retriever's so I hope he will be fine.

Loads of people have northern breeds that are free, takes hard work and trust but nothing is impossible.

Like people, dogs can learn.Nothing is written in stone.

I will continue to have great enjoyment out of him at full stride, eating up the ground at the beach, nothing makes me happier than seeing him clocking up the miles, it's what he was bred to do.

You seem to think for some reason that people who walk their dogs on leads are cruel? Wondering where you're getting this idea from. I have an akita, a dog with a very high prey drive like all other spitz breeds. He's a big dog, nine months and already eight stone and he could very easily do a lot of damage if he wanted to. Now in saying that, he is well-socialised, brilliant with other dogs, animals and kids etc, but there is no way in hell I would ever leave him off leash. Why?

1. There's no need. He gets plenty of exercise and plenty of interaction with other dogs on lead. He isn't up for much yet, but I hike and hope to take him with me once he's matured. I'm pretty sure he'll enjoy this life without a problem.

2. He doesn't want to be off leash. He isn't 'dragged around' as you put it, he walks along at my side and we go at his pace when he wants to stop and sniff at something. But even when he does pause, as soon as i take a step, he's right back at my side again. I have a thirty foot tracking lead to clip on for when he wants to go for a swim.

3. He is, as i said, a very big dog and if I was afraid of dogs, I would be terrified to see him running towards me. Take some other people into consideration as well- huskies are starting to get a bad rep now because people see a big dog tearing towards them at an unreal speed and assume they're going to be attacked. How are they to know any different?

4. I would never, ever risk the life of my dog. You say if he gets shot by a farmer then so be it? What kind of pet owner says that? He is your responsibility, he trusts you to do what's right by him and you're willing to let him get killed as long as he gets a few 'adventures'. Which btw, aren't so adventurous when you consider the fact that you're letting him run free with a muzzle, which as another poster said can be highly dangerous.

I honestly dont know how many times I have met people wandering around the local park or the beaches, whistling and shouting, then stopping me to ask if i saw their dog as it went missing and they cant find it. 9 times out of 10 its a sibe they have.

Discodog

Squall19 wrote: »

I would prefer him to be free and having fun, than tied up all his life like a lab rat.

If he runs off and gets shot by a farmer, then so be it.At least he a few adventures in his short life.

He would have lived a little anyway, its very sad for me seeing strong powerful dogs like that being dragged around on the lead.

I took a chance and so far it's worked, I have every confidence it will keeping working, his prey drive is no stonger than my retriever's so I hope he will be fine.

Whilst your comments are ignorant they are shared by many people in Ireland & are one of the reasons why we have such an appalling record in animal welfare. The same arguments are used to justify not neutering, vaccinating or even putting a name tag on a collar.

But you have provided some food for thought in that maybe we need a clause in the Animal Welfare Bill to cover the deliberate endangerment of an animal.

Discodog

DBB wrote: »

Personally, I'd never allow a dog off-leash whilst muzzled. They are exceptionally vulnerable. If it goes wrong for him, it can go horribly wrong.

Neither would I & I suspect that the presence of a muzzle could be difficult for the other dog to interpret, it could react defensively.

koneko

Squall19 wrote: »

Kinda cruel you don't think?

Personally I think getting shot or hit by a car and dying a painful death is cruel, but you obviously don't agree. As long as he had some fun in the meantime, right?

I knew getting into it that I shouldn't be letting them off lead in unsecured places, and it's why I didn't get my first Husky until I moved somewhere where I have a biiiig garden where my dogs can run around.
Personally I think you're asking for trouble, especially with that blasé attitude, but sure you know better...


Honestly cannot understand even one iota of a comment like this, just disgusting IMO:

Squall19 wrote: »

If he runs off and gets shot by a farmer, then so be it.At least he a few adventures in his short life.

lrushe

I don't walk my dogs on a leash for the majority of their walks. They are on leash until I leave the heavier populated areas of the woods, parks, mountain trails, fields etc. then they are let off. I don't use areas with leash restrictions.
If I am approaching someone I will put the dogs back on their leashes (out of politeness) but as soon as I pass they are let off again.
I remember reading in a dog book when I was younger that a short walk off a leash is better than a long walk on a leash, this idea stuck with me and I still to this day agree with it, there is no way my Rottie would be satisfied with an on leash walk no matter how long.
I do think dogs can be too wrapped up in cotton wool these days (or to the other extreme with no care at all, no inbetween) ,and while I wouldn't go as far as a previous poster and say I would take the chance of a farmer shooting my dog just so it could be excerised, I do think there has to be a balance struck between safety and freedom for a dog to be a dog.
I can't speak for anyone else's dogs but I know mine would not be as happy with on leash walks as they are with off leash ones.

ISDW

Squall19 wrote: »

I would prefer him to be free and having fun, than tied up all his life like a lab rat.

If he runs off and gets shot by a farmer, then so be it.At least he a few adventures in his short life.

He would have lived a little anyway, its very sad for me seeing strong powerful dogs like that being dragged around on the lead.

They are not poddle's!!, they are pack dogs bred to run, so I dont know why you are taking higher ground with me, like you are better than me or something.


Why did you buy one then, if you knew it would be tied up all its life?

Kinda cruel you don't think?

How would you like to be on a lead your whole life?

I took a chance and so far it's worked, I have every confidence it will keeping working, his prey drive is no stonger than my retriever's so I hope he will be fine.

Loads of people have northern breeds that are free, takes hard work and trust but nothing is impossible.

Like people, dogs can learn.Nothing is written in stone.

I will continue to have great enjoyment out of him at full stride, eating up the ground at the beach, nothing makes me happier than seeing him clocking up the miles, it's what he was bred to do.

This is what they are bred to do:



My dogs look really miserable don't they. They were bred to run whilst pulling, yes, they were set free in the summer - to hunt and feed themselves as the inuit people couldn't feed them at that time. So they have a prey drive hard wired into them that while they are running free, if they see something, they will go after it.

My dogs don't spend their lives on a lead, I bought a house that isn't the most salubrious in the world, but it did come with 2.2 acres of land, half of which was already walled in, and I spent a good few thousand fencing the rest. They go down to my big field - over an acre twice a day and run around together having a great time. The rest of the time they are in the house or the back yard, which is about half an acre. They go into the kennel block for feeding, again, there is a field around it, that they also play in.

As I said before, its your dog, but there is a saying among husky and mal welfare organisations - your dog hasn't run away YET. I hope you are right, and your dog continues to come back when called, I really do because I wouldn't want you to go through what countless other northern breed owners have gone through, when their dog has been shot or run over.

Why did I buy a husky? Because I love them. I bought two, I now own 10 myself. How did I get so many? Because people can't handle them, or they run away and get picked up and rehomed from pounds. I have rehomed just under 200 sibes, mals or crosses in just under 3 years. Most of them because people don't understand the breeds. Why don't you get a bike or scooter, and work your dog in the way its meant to be exercised? It is great fun, for you and the dog, but be warned, it is addictive, one dog tends to lead to two, then three ...........

I didn't mean to come across as 'being better' than you, its just very wearing hearing the same stuff all the time - just before the phone call about the dog being killed.

So, best of luck with your dog, but if you really want to give him a good life, get him out there working.

Squirm

Fantastic post ISDW.

Fantastic photo too! Looks like great fun- for you and the dogs!! That beats a walk, with or without a lead, any day!!

I am hoping to get a Samoyed, as I mentioned, next summer. But because I don't have masses of garden space, I don't wish to do so until I have sourced a good variety of exercise activities for us to do together. Beaches, walks, jogs, hikes etc etc.

Do you think, honestly, that this would be sufficient for a Samoyed? I want a happy dog.

We will bring her for an evening jog, daily walks and swims, she will have children to play with and will live in our kitchen. We will have an average sized garden. We live near the coast and have a holiday home in the family, with a half acre garden that we frequent. But nothing compared to your set up. It sounds like doggy heaven!! Would you ever release a sibe (perhaps not all 10 of them!) in an enclosed dog park?

Have to add, that the notion of allowing your dog to raom free and if they get shot or killed "so what, it was in the name of good fun" is disgusting. Imagine that was a child you were talking about? You would be guilty of serious neglect. The same applies as you are talking about an animal reliant on you to keep him/her safe and in control.

LucyBliss

ISDW wrote: »

I bought a house that isn't the most salubrious in the world, but it did come with 2.2 acres of land

Will you adopt me??!! I would love to have that kind of space for me to potter around in, never mind my dogs! Heh.

I'm not sure I see the point of having a dog if you're okay with it getting shot by someone. I would imagine that when you take on a dog, you are committing yourself to being responsible enough to keep it out of harms way. I find that whole attitude very disturbing to be honest.

doctor evil

lrushe wrote: »

I don't walk my dogs on a leash for the majority of their walks. They are on leash until I leave the heavier populated areas of the woods, parks, mountain trails, fields etc. then they are let off. I don't use areas with leash restrictions.
If I am approaching someone I will put the dogs back on their leashes (out of politeness) but as soon as I pass they are let off again.
I remember reading in a dog book when I was younger that a short walk off a leash is better than a long walk on a leash, this idea stuck with me and I still to this day agree with it, there is no way my Rottie would be satisfied with an on leash walk no matter how long.
I do think dogs can be too wrapped up in cotton wool these days (or to the other extreme with no care at all, no inbetween) ,and while I wouldn't go as far as a previous poster and say I would take the chance of a farmer shooting my dog just so it could be excerised, I do think there has to be a balance struck between safety and freedom for a dog to be a dog.
I can't speak for anyone else's dogs but I know mine would not be as happy with on leash walks as they are with off leash ones.

I don't think dogs are wrapped up so much in cotton wool rather than people are much more aware of the liability side of things.

Can I ask you, do the dogs stay at heel or do they zoom off ahead?

What evidence is there for a short walk off the lead better than a longer walk on it? Surely it is dependant on route and speak taken by the owner.

As a general note to this thread I do not understand why people get a dog that is too big for their home/garden.

ISDW

I do apologise, I didn't mean to turn this thread into a northern breed on/off lead discussion.

Squirm, as long as the dog gets plenty of exercise they'll be happy, just you have to walk probably 4/5 times as far as you would run them on a bike, scooter or rig. Yep, I would let my dogs free in a dog park, as long as it was fully enclosed, just a shame that there aren't more of them in the country.

Lucybliss, my house is up for sale:D As I say, the house isn't great, but the land is fantastic, and the views of the Atlantic are just amazing.

I'm not against dogs off lead, just not in areas where they're not allowed. Before I got northern breeds my dogs would be off lead a lot, but would be on lead in areas where they had to be. I just worry, the way the world is going, that if people ignore signs telling them to keep their dogs on leads in certain areas, then the next step will be the dogs being banned from those areas completely. I love seeing dogs running free and having a good time, and definitely agree that a dog running free in a wood gets much more exercise than one going through it on a lead, as they run around getting all the different smells. But, us dog owners have to share the world with other people, so we need to take their concerns and wishes into account - no matter how much we think they're wrong;)

antomagoo

doctor evil wrote: »

I don't think dogs are wrapped up so much in cotton wool rather than people are much more aware of the liability side of things.

Can I ask you, do the dogs stay at heel or do they zoom off ahead?

What evidence is there for a short walk off the lead better than a longer walk on it? Surely it is dependant on route and speak taken by the owner.

As a general note to this thread I do not understand why people get a dog that is too big for their home/garden.

Dont really know how you would go about presenting evidence of the benefits of a short off leash walk over a long on leash walk, but when I see the big happy head on our girl when she's charging around the forest, chasing a ball, or out swimming in the lake/sea thats evidence enough for me

koneko

Squirm, the only thing I'd note maybe if it he/she would be alone during the day, they might want a doggy pal.
You are doing research and care and it's a great start

I have let my lot (though not all at once) off lead in the dog park in Marlay Park, and do wish there were more around the country. It's a good chance for all sorts of dogs to meet and greet

Squall19

Great post ISDW

Really enjoyed it:D

Love your dogs as well.Especially the Copper and white fellow at the front.

I'm not a bad guy/owner honestly, I treat Fado like a king.

I did say I set him free him on the beach and when I go up the mountains, I don't set him free in the park and near cars, so I dont know why I am getting flammed so much.

What harm is it to set him free on an empty beach, when I trust 100% not to run away?

He is 20 months now and hasn't chased after horses, cows, etc as he doesnt seemed bothered by them, he doesn't care too much for other dogs too.

I have taken him on the bike ( pulling of course ) and he is good at it, but its just too warm now for him I think.He's very strong, 43-45kg now and 26" inches at the withers, so I will start again when its get colder.

What do you feed them by the way?

He's on beta nuts, with a piece of steak or chicken fillets thrown in with his evening bowl.

He's a picky enough eater, wont eat his nuts without some meat mixed with them and he cant stand tinned food, which I have heard is crap anyway.

doctor evil

Places can turn to empty to having other users on them all too quickly.

mattser

You're not in the least cruel. What you have, though, is manners and a big helping of cop on. Something most so called ' dog lovers ', on these threads have never heard of.
Most are actually thicker than the animals they refuse to restrain.

koneko wrote: »

I don't know, some people seem to think that everyone that walks their dogs off lead has perfect control of their dogs, but it simply isn't true

Had another incident yesterday, two little snappy dogs off lead running circles around a dog we were with (not our dog) and it obviously bothered her. She's on lead and these two small dogs are running in circles around her barking and upsetting her.
The guy had zero control of his dogs and zero inclination to put them on the lead. They did not listen to a word he said and even still he didn't even attempt to put leads on them, despite requests (he had them in his hand and everything).

I have Northern breeds (as others said, read up on why they can't be let off lead) and a GSD (so a restricted breed), so all my dogs are always on leads when out, and have a very big garden to run around in when they're home. Judging by some of the posts here I'm probably cruel and my dogs have horrible lives

lrushe

doctor evil wrote: »

I don't think dogs are wrapped up so much in cotton wool rather than people are much more aware of the liability side of things.

Can I ask you, do the dogs stay at heel or do they zoom off ahead?

What evidence is there for a short walk off the lead better than a longer walk on it? Surely it is dependant on route and speak taken by the owner.

As a general note to this thread I do not understand why people get a dog that is too big for their home/garden.

You shouldn't fear liability if you are responsible. If you have a dog with issues then off course they should be keep on leash, that's common sense.

My dogs are all trained to heel on and off leash. When allowed freely off leash my Rott will stay a few feet ahead, my Spitz stays mostly by my side and my Chi stays directly behind me.

"A short walk off the leash is better than a long walk on the leash" is a quote from a dog book I read when I was younger (tried googling the qoute but it didn't turn up the name of the book) and a sentiment I agree with. I've never had a day of my life without a dog and have been walking multiple dogs for over 20 years and in my experience off leash exercise has always drained energy and maintained fitness better than on leash exercising.

I didn't get a dog that was too big for my house/garden, all three of my dogs fit perfectly into my home and when they need excerise they get to run free in safe areas.

Squall19

Why am I not suprised:rolleyes:

Just typical of this forum.

When I said something wrong, ISDW was the first one to come raging in all high and mighty making herself look great and making me look a right fool.

Then I ask a few nice questions and guess what no reply.

Thanks for nothing.

DBB

ISDW doesn't have to try to make herself look great... she is great!:D
You know what they say about looking a fool? Tis better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and eliminate all doubt;)
Quite frankly, I think there was more than ISDW who found your manner patronising throughout this thread. :rolleyes:
You posted several bombastic, pugnacious posts about how brilliant a dog owner you are, then having been put straight by someone who has forgotten more about sled dogs than you'll ever know, you rolled over and showed your tummy, asked a couple of questions having already buried yourself up to your oxters in a quagmire of your own making, and expect ISDW (or anyone else) to give you any more? After the manner you took with people?:eek:

Cherry Blossom

Squall19 wrote: »

Then I ask a few nice questions and guess what no reply.

Thanks for nothing.

You asked 2 questions, one has already been answered um-teen times, the other is off-topic in a thread about dogs on/off leash.

tk123

Squall19 wrote: »

Why am I not suprised:rolleyes:

Just typical of this forum.

When I said something wrong, ISDW was the first one to come raging in all high and mighty making herself look great and making me look a right fool.

Then I ask a few nice questions and guess what no reply.

Thanks for nothing.

Bloody hell maybe ISDW has other things to do and has gotten around to replying to you? You seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder tbh - you've accused her of making out she's better than you twice now. One post you contradict her and then you change your mind and ask her for advice and THEN get pi$$ed of that she hasn't replied to you?!

THIS is what's typical of this forum - people getting pi$$ed off when the majority of people don't agree with them then they argue with them for a while then they play the "regular posters/typical of this forum" card.

ppink

DBB wrote: »

Tis better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and eliminate all doubt;)

LOL

not getting involved in this nonsense above but this is too funny, never heard it before but how true it is:D

ISDW

Gosh I feel so important:rolleyes:

I can only see one question, which has no bearing whatsoever on this thread, but as its so important to you, I shall answer. My dogs are fed on Chudleys working crunch at the moment, they will be put on their greyhound kibble in the winter, when they're working, along with the greyhound crunch - dehydrated animal bits (not all meat).

I apologise to you for a second time, for daring to have a life away from the pc. I took in a very damaged malamute bitch on Saturday and so she is taking up a lot of my time. Sorry that I neglected you so badly, hope this makes up for it, and you feel loved again.

Hellrazer

ISDW wrote: »

I took in a very damaged malamute bitch on Saturday and so she is taking up a lot of my time..

Fair play.Any pics and will she be rehomed?

ISDW

Hellrazer wrote: »

Fair play.Any pics and will she be rehomed?

I do have some pics.;) I honestly don't know when she will be ready to be rehomed. I'm actually hoping that the mal club in the UK will take her, as she really needs a very experienced home, and there aren't that many here. I don't usually send dogs over there, they have enough northern breeds to try and rehome themselves, but she's a very big girl, and needs something a bit special. It doesn't help matters that she's also in season:rolleyes: