Banned from Politics.

deise go deo

I have banned you from the Politics forum for one week, principally for soapboxing.

The thread in question is
[URL=http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056204188]Ruari Quinn, Education agus an Gaeilge[/URL]

My OP:

Ruairi Quinn of Labor is the new Minister for Education.
I think everyone agrees that Irish in the education system needs to be changed, Just maintaining the status quo is not a sustainable option.
Labor's position is that Irish should be kept as a Core subject for the LC. But what is Ruairi's position on this? Has he ever put forward an opinion on this issue?
What reforms do you expect there to be made to how Irish is taught over the comming months and years, and what reforms do you think should be made?
I have E-mailed Him on this question, When (if) he responds I will let you know what his position is.

As Mentioned, The Reason given for the Ban was Soapboxing.

The mod claimed to know that I was unwilling to change my opinion at any cost.

And then you went on to soapbox, ignoring everything said to you and just repeating your own position. As a particular example, you ignored Godge's argument and source. He claimed Quinn's views were more akin to FG's, and he supported this with a source. You provided no source in return, but still accused his source of being "vague" and accused his argument of having no basis. It's clear you weren't willing to take what was being said on board, but were only interested in championing your side.

I have banned you from the Politics forum for one week, principally for soapboxing.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056204188


Mod Biase: thread wrecking.

Permabare First Post.

I think it's unfortunate that Ruairi Quinn's time as Minister for Education and Skills is going to be wasted dealing with militant gaelgoirs who can't abide the thought of someone actually having a choice whether or not to do Irish for his or her Leaving Cert.

Cyclopath personalising discussion.

is it not the case that you want to change the existing English-speaking culture of Ireland to a narrowly define 'bilingual' (Irish/English only) one and that you are an active member of an organisation whose main aim is the replacement of English by Irish?

You are not preserving Irish-speaking, you are attacking English-speaking.

And again.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=71133548&postcount=117

and again

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=71134175&postcount=121



and again

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=71134577&postcount=123



‘Backseat Modding’

Making Irish optional is not really an Issue, it will not happen before the curriculum is reformed, if it happens at all. This is layed out clearly in the program for government. Even FG were planning on doing it this way before Labor got Education.

This thread is to discuss those reforms. Please try to remember that.

This is in relation to a question I asked in my OP:

Labor's position is that Irish should be kept as a Core subject for the LC. But what is Ruairi's position on this? Has he ever put forward an opinion on this issue?

Goudge put forward the suggestion that Quinn was interested in reducing the amount of time spent teaching Irish in class and provided a quote.

I suggested that this quote was quite vague as he had said that there were others that backed up his claim, I asked him to provide them. Apparently this was unacceptable behaviour.




My intent with the OP was to discuss reforms to how the language would be taught. When I saw people that people had misinterpreted it, I clarified my position and gave reasons why.


For this I have been accused by the mod of Backseat Modding. Apparently Instead of clarifying my position I should have reported those who were posting off topic.
I was also accused of ‘shifting the goalposts’ for the same thing.

Permabear

Because, within minutes of his appointment being announced, people like you were sending him emails on the topic

Me

Whats your point? I am interested in this topic and want to know what his plans are for reforming how the language is taught. Do you have a problem with that?

For this I was accused of ‘Ignoring’ Permabear.
I disagreed with Permabears accusation that my actions equated to wasting the ministers time on a matter that was irrelevant. (A mater that is part of his portfolio as it happens)
I laid out my position and challenged him to find something wrong with it. At the time, permabear made no mention of my supposedly ignoring his point, in fact he did not respond.


Permabear

I provided a link earlier in this thread to the Oireachtas Committee on Education. I provided a quotation directly from Ruairi Quinn on the issue. If you read through the debates on that link - there are plenty - you will find out all you need to know about Ruairi Quinn's view.

Me

I just had a read through that debate, besides the Quote you provided, he did not mention Irish again(Unless I missed something), He did mention that in light of poor literacy performance that the allocation should be reviewed, but it was on Religion and not Irish that he pushed the point strongly. I would say that on the basis of that debate, he is far more interested in downgrading the amount of time spent on Religion than Irish.

Can you provide a link to where he deals with Irish directly? As from reading the one you provided, I did not learn much at all about his opinion on Irish in the education system, though I did learn that he dosent like Religion being taught and is concerned about literacy.

For this I was acused of ignoring Permabear.

This thread was meant to be about reforms that will/should be made to the curriculum, it has since been dragged off topic by delusional notions of abandoning Irish by some posters. [/SIZE

Again, I was accused by the mod of dismissing the views of others for labelling a notion that there is not even the slightest bit of evidence to support as Delusional.


I have been accused by the mod of soapboxing in the thread.
I have always done my utmost to argue my position of Reason and evidence and am happy to stand by my record on this. A perfect example from the thread in question being:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=71131422&postcount=111[/SIZE][/FONT]

[/SIZE][/FONT]




What I deserved an infraction for.

No its just you making a fool of your self.

Eliot has a bias against the Irish language, I have argued with him on the issue in the past.

That is fine, it makes no difference to me what opinion he holds personally, but In my opinion he has let that personal bias interfeer with his modding.

He banned me for in my opinion very insubstantial reasons without even a warning berforehand.

He has banned another poster for personalising a debate on the same issue. That he bans posters who hold a differing view for personalisation of debate but not those with the same view as him speaks clearly of his biase interfeering with his modding of this topic in my opinion.

nesf

Eliot delivered the decision but it not solely his decision, he did discuss it with some of the other Politics mods before acting.

As such, it is fairer that Dades handles this case.

Dades

deise go deo, can I clarify that your issue is that you feel that certain mods are biased against you (or Irish) - or that your ban for soapboxing is unsound - or both?

deise go deo

Dades wrote: »

deise go deo, can I clarify that your issue is that you feel that certain mods are biased against you (or Irish) - or that your ban for soapboxing is unsound - or both?

I think the ban for soapboxing was unsound, that the mod made several alagations that were based on a biased reading of the thread and I think that The mod acted the way he did due to this bias.

Dades

Hi all, apologies for the delay.

I was going to post sooner but then I realised the ban had actually expired when the DR was created, so took some more time to trawl through the thread(s) in question.

Quite what the purpose of my opinion is at this point, I don't know, as the ban is served already. However having read the entire thread (much of it repeatedly) I'm of the opinion that, whilst I don't see any evidence of bias on the part of the moderators, the ban was harsh.

deise go deo, I do feel the somewhat limited scope of the thread was dragged off topic by others taking you with it on a number of occasions, and for that I feel you have cause for complaint. I believe the infraction you received was deserved, however on the charge of soapboxing - in this thread at least - you aren't particularly guilty.

That said, I'm wondering what the purpose of this thread was in the first place. I could see it having a home in the Gaeilge forum - a good place to discuss reforms in the Irish system, no? - but not in Politics. Especially given the already bloated "Is Irish a dead language?" thread. I'm curious at your motives for even starting it. The mention of Ruari Quinn in the title does not make it a politics thread. Wasn't it inevitable it would go off track?

So let this be an opinion with a caveat. While the thread in question (imo) might not be classic soapboxing, I've noted your more recent contributions to the "Is Irish a dead language?" are more akin to my definition of soapboxing. Which in my book is ignoring others' points, deflection and pedantry.

Just sayin', although I might be on your side this time, I might not be of the same opinion next time...

G'luck.

deise go deo

Dades wrote: »

Hi all, apologies for the delay.

I was going to post sooner but then I realised the ban had actually expired when the DR was created, so took some more time to trawl through the thread(s) in question.

I diden't get the message until after I started the thread, I was spurred into starting the thread because the mod in question had banned a poster who held an opposing view on the topic from the mod in question in a different thread for 'personalizing debate' something he ignored from a poster that has the same opinion on the issue, in the thread he banned me from(and more recently, the same poster has continued to try to personalize discussion in the other thread), hence my accusation of bias.

That said, I'm wondering what the purpose of this thread was in the first place. I could see it having a home in the Gaeilge forum - a good place to discuss reforms in the Irish system, no? - but not in Politics. Especially given the already bloated "Is Irish a dead language?" thread. I'm curious at your motives for even starting it. The mention of Ruari Quinn in the title does not make it a politics thread. Wasn't it inevitable it would go off track?

I am open to people saying that it needs to be scaled down, and to hearing arguments as to why this should be the case. This would be unlikely in the Gaeilge forum. The reason I started a new thread is because I personally feel the issue of compulsion has been done to death, several times, in the other thread.

As such I wanted to start a new and more focused discussion based on the political reality of what will be happening next with the Irish language, ie reform of the curriculum.
I don't think such a discussion is out of place in politics considering that it is the government that will be implementing such reforms.

So let this be an opinion with a caveat. While the thread in question (imo) might not be classic soapboxing, I've noted your more recent contributions to the "Is Irish a dead language?" are more akin to my definition of soapboxing. Which in my book is ignoring others' points, deflection and pedantry.

There is nothing pedantic about pointing out that Irish is not the only compulsory subject.

I have simply pointed out how Irish is compulsory, and why the rest are not, by any stretch of the word, Optional.

As for the rest of the argument, which it is, not a discussion unfortunately,

If mods were to ban anyone from that thread, they would have to ban everyone. Everyone myself included has engaged in Ignoring others, deflection and pedantry. To pick out one poster would be grossly unfair.


Anyway, thanks for your time on this.