Unsatisfactory hygien standards at city butchers

ErnieBert

I was in a well known, long established city butchers on Saturday. I bought 2 chicken breasts and 2 pork chops. It was the first time I had been in this establishment since the 80's (when I was with my mother). I couldn't help but notice how they handled meat and money without wearing gloves or washing hands.

I had a similar experience in another long established city butchers last year when i was buying sausage meat for the Christmas stuffing. On that occasion I complained and walked out.

This disgusting practice can be seen by passers-by on the street so they are not even hiding their bad practice.

I will never shop in either of these butcher shops again. I have never had such issues when buying meat at any of the large supermarkets where I almost always buy meat.


End of rant.

A lot of places use sanitizing hand gels, which mean they don't need to wash their hands or wear gloves. You should just ask them the next time you're in there.

TotallyEpic

It's worse when someone handling food wears the same gloves all day, and handles money with the same gloves.

I'd rather no gloves and regular sanitisation.

NotInventedHere

You cook meat , That kills germs, so your rant makes no sense

ErnieBert

Deleted User wrote: »

A lot of places use sanitizing hand gels, which mean they don't need to wash their hands or wear gloves. You should just ask them the next time you're in there.

I watched from outside afterwards. ALL of the staff go straight from raw meat to money with the same hands. They don't use the gel or wear gloves.

They effectively handed me back meaty money for change. Uggggghhhhh.

ErnieBert

NotInventedHere wrote: »

You cook meat , That kills germs, so your rant makes no sense

What about their hands that handled raw meat and gave me my change? That surely transfers the germs to my hands?

pleasant Co.

ErnieBert wrote: »

They affectively handed me back meaty money for change. Uggggghhhhh.

It's probably for the best that you don't think too long or hard about the handling of change/money in general, you may end up with a severe psychological condition.

ErnieBert

Mactard wrote: »

It's probably for the best that you don't think too long or hard about the handling of change/money in general, you may end up with a severe psychological condition.

Those men in white coats are butchers, aren't they?

pleasant Co.

ErnieBert wrote: »

Those men in white coats are butchers, aren't they?

How else do you think the zombie apocalypse is going to start..it's all in the change maaaaaan :cool:

inisboffin

Deleted User wrote: »

A lot of places use sanitizing hand gels, which mean they don't need to wash their hands or wear gloves. You should just ask them the next time you're in there.

Those hand sanitizers work once
1. You don't mind if a big gloop of it on a 'just done' hand lands in your meat
2. It is done frequently enough.

If someone is going back and forth between money and raw meat, they'd need to do it right in the middle in order for it to be fully efficient. I'm sure the feces, cold, whatever bacteria which we *know* is on money, would just love the fresh organic meaty environment in which to make babies! :eek:

You're right OP - YUK, never mind the salmonella etc..

Jimmy Garlic

I know this hygiene freak that sterilises her whole house and won't let her children play in the garden because of her irrational germ phobia. Guess what, they caught everything going when they went to preschool, they had no immunity built up and it all hit them at once.

As for the butcher touching money after touching meat... let me put it into perspective, hundreds of other people touched that money and god only knows what else they were touching. It is no big deal, get over it. That's they way old skool butchers have always operated and it never killed any of em.
Lest hope the 'health and safety' Taliban leave well alone.

inisboffin

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

I know this hygiene freak that sterilises her whole house and won't let her children play in the garden because of her irrational germ phobia. Guess what, they caught everything going when they went to preschool, they had no immunity built up and it all hit them at once.

As for the butcher touching money after touching meat... let me put it into perspective, hundreds of other people touched that money and god only knows what else they were touching. It is no big deal, get over it. That's they way old skool butchers have always operated and it never killed any of em.
Lest hope the 'health and safety' Taliban leave well alone.

You're right to some extent! The hand sanitizer stuff is encouraging immunity in bacteria, breeding superbugs. But I'm sorry - I draw the line at people not *bothering* to wash their hands. When I was in college (not today nor yesterday!) I worked in a Deli, and we *always* had to wash hands or use gloves when moving between handling food and handling money. They teach you this stuff and test you on it when you apply for a food handlers permit.
Our local butcher growing up used those little plastic sheets of paper or a sheet of butcher paper to grab the meat. There was a scoop for the mince, it was quite an art, his hands never seemed to touch the meat. He washed his hands often, whether it was busy or not. Laziness isn't an excuse, nor is it old school. And as far as it 'not killing any of us', there ARE way more superbugs now, sadly, and people get nasty stuff all the time from this - just look at our hospitals. I'm not a germ freak, but the stuff on money is pretty disgusting, and I do wash my hands still before eating.

Steyr

If they did Hot food too and fish and red meat then you MAY have an issue where cross-contamination is concerned.

Victor

www.fsai.ie

TotallyEpic

Adds a bitta flavour...

inisboffin

TotallyEpic wrote: »

Adds a bitta flavour...

Mmmm:)..poo:p

happyoutscan

Personally I wouldn't be over bothered but I can completely understand why the OP or others might be.

Mrs OBumble

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

As for the butcher touching money after touching meat... let me put it into perspective, hundreds of other people touched that money and god only knows what else they were touching. It is no big deal, get over it. That's they way old skool butchers have always operated and it never killed any of em.

It may not have killed them, but salmonella may well have killed some of their customers.

There are two issues: the germs put onto the OPs meat by from previous person's change, via the butcher's hands, and the cross-contamination across the various sorts of meat.

As someone said, this sort of stuff has been basic food hygiene practice for a long time, the butchers need to GWTP, IMHO. Not shopping there, and telling 'em why you're doing so, would be a very good idea.

mikemac

So you're going to go to supermarkets instead OP?

I reckon a trained Craft butcher knows more about what they sell and how to manage it then the teenager in the supermarket

inisboffin

feelingstressed wrote: »

So you're going to go to supermarkets instead OP?

I reckon a trained Craft butcher knows more about what they sell and how to manage it then the teenager in the supermarket

Evidently not according to the OP. The butcher we had growing up never did this.

And btw, there are plenty of teenagers (or people who look like teenagers ) in butchers, and 'craft butchers' who work for larger supermarkets.

Plenty of excellent 'craft butchers' in Galway do NOT do this with food handling, their craft is too important to them to be closed down by health and safety. It just sounds like laziness imo.

EGAR

http://hubpages.com/hub/Dirty-Money-Germs-on-Currency

Madame Razz

Certainly think that I know one of the butchers shops to which the OP is referring, and I would wholeheartedly agree. Although I also think that their premises is filthy, and that there is definately one member of staff behind the counter that looks like they could do with a good wash. This establishment is much praised by Galwegians too, which amuses me greatly, as anytime i have been in there, i have gagged and had to leave because, well, it is just not clean. As I am aware, these premises are subject to spot checks by the relevant authorities, so I do not see how they get away with it.

Regarding the money/meat thing, I've never witnessed that myself. Money, by it's nature, is not exactly clean anyway, but raw meat is dangerous, and if you witness this sort of practise anywhere, then you should report it. It's simply not on. Some butchers, Tormeys for example, keep the cash desk separate to the meat counters. This keeps the queue moving, but it is also better hygiene practise. It probably cuts till errors dramatically too.

There's no excuse for lack of hygiene at a butchers premises. Where I grew up, we went to a very old school rural butcher, think basic shop fittings, noisy saws and sawdust on the floor; but the place was and still is spotless. If a rural butcher in the backarse of nowhere can manage hygiene, then I see no reason why a city butcher can't tbh.

dolphin city

the meat is raw - any "germs" on that will be killed in the cooking process,unless you eat your meat raw in which case the butchers hands are the least of your worries.

regarding meat or germs on your change I would suggest that if you are worried about this that YOU wear plastic gloves. Money has been, is and will be the filthiest thing to handle - you get traces of cocaine on most money, and lots of it is stuck down the front pants of males - what happens when they go to the loo and stick their hand in their pocket afterwards. Don't blame butchers.

Humans, especially adult humans are immune to most of these germs - and we can handle it - what age are you - you have been handling germs for as long as were alive.

Wanting everything sterilised will break down your defences against germ and you will end up living in a bubble.

Next time you are in a butcher and you get money handed out to you - just think - what other germs could be on the money - look at the customer before you - are they filthy - are you receive their "fiver" - where did they have it stashed.

dolphin city

speaking of butchers tho, there is one particular "supermarket" butcher that I have to avoid at all costs - the meat part of the shop STINKS to the high heaven. I don't understand why anyone would venture to purchase meat in it. Its diabolical.

I do tend to get my meat at a butcher shop overall.

mikemac

Nobody on this thread is listing the places they avoid. So not much to be learned realy

If your story is true then post it up

pleasant Co.

feelingstressed wrote: »

Nobody on this thread is listing the places they avoid. So not much to be learned realy

If your story is true then post it up

There's truth, and provable truth - unless the OP has the latter the name of any of these establishments should not be listed....you know, the whole boards legal liability thing...

Just to note, I totally believe the OP.

mikemac

Mactard wrote: »

.you know, the whole boards legal liability thing...
.

Way offtopic but I always found it strange I can log on boards and lash Eircom, UPC, Airtricity, Vodafone and any big company

But if I named and shamed Tom's Dodgy Car Dealership in Tuam or some dodgy butcher in Galway, whoosh, it would be taken down

Yeah, offtopic so I'll leave it at that

inisboffin

dolphin city wrote: »

the meat is raw - any "germs" on that will be killed in the cooking process,unless you eat your meat raw in which case the butchers hands are the least of your worries.

regarding meat or germs on your change I would suggest that if you are worried about this that YOU wear plastic gloves. Money has been, is and will be the filthiest thing to handle - you get traces of cocaine on most money, and lots of it is stuck down the front pants of males - what happens when they go to the loo and stick their hand in their pocket afterwards. Don't blame butchers.

Humans, especially adult humans are immune to most of these germs - and we can handle it - what age are you - you have been handling germs for as long as were alive.

Wanting everything sterilised will break down your defences against germ and you will end up living in a bubble.

Next time you are in a butcher and you get money handed out to you - just think - what other germs could be on the money - look at the customer before you - are they filthy - are you receive their "fiver" - where did they have it stashed.

Humans *aren't* for the most part, immune to strep, staph, e-coli though. While I hear what you are saying about over sterilization causing bug immunity, I think simple hygene still is important. People say things like 'ah butchers have been doing that for a thousand years' - yeah, and what was the average life expectancy then? You're absolutely right Dolphin City, money is disgusting - and for that reason I wash my hands before eating or preparing food. Of course there are bacteria everywhere, but places like the eyes, mouth (and raw meat) are much friendlier places for those bacteria to grow and live, than say a hand (which can transfer them). It's a bit like two wrongs not making a right, just because we are exposed to potential bacterial infection daily, doesn't make a case for greatly upping the odds by adding organisms and gunk to raw meat. Doesn't make sense. Cross infection between meats/ fish, hot/raw food can be just as bad. No one is advocating Howard Hughes behaviour, but without being obsessive, why not make our food a bit safer?

Cavehill Red

inisboffin wrote: »

You're right to some extent! The hand sanitizer stuff is encouraging immunity in bacteria, breeding superbugs. But I'm sorry - I draw the line at people not *bothering* to wash their hands. When I was in college (not today nor yesterday!) I worked in a Deli, and we *always* had to wash hands or use gloves when moving between handling food and handling money. They teach you this stuff and test you on it when you apply for a food handlers permit.
Our local butcher growing up used those little plastic sheets of paper or a sheet of butcher paper to grab the meat. There was a scoop for the mince, it was quite an art, his hands never seemed to touch the meat. He washed his hands often, whether it was busy or not. Laziness isn't an excuse, nor is it old school. And as far as it 'not killing any of us', there ARE way more superbugs now, sadly, and people get nasty stuff all the time from this - just look at our hospitals. I'm not a germ freak, but the stuff on money is pretty disgusting, and I do wash my hands still before eating.

Cock and bull alert. This, children, is why a little scientific knowledge is worse than none at all.
This well-meaning but deluded poster thinks that alcohol-based hand sanitiser use is 'encouraging immunity in bacteria'. Nope, it's just killing the bacteria stone dead.
But, they splutter, look at the superbugs in the hospitals? Yes, indeed. When we treat conditions with antibiotics, and lazy patients don't finish their course of treatment because they feel better already, then bugs develop immunity - TO THE ANTIBIOTICS.
They don't get immune to alcohol hand sanitiser, though. That would be a bit like a soldier developing immunity to bullets. Not happening. It still kills them stone dead.

TLDR: Hand sanitisers DO kill all the germs on your hands. Use them properly, children.

inisboffin

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Cock and bull alert. This, children, is why a little scientific knowledge is worse than none at all.
This well-meaning but deluded poster thinks that alcohol-based hand sanitiser use is 'encouraging immunity in bacteria'. Nope, it's just killing the bacteria stone dead.
But, they splutter, look at the superbugs in the hospitals? Yes, indeed. When we treat conditions with antibiotics, and lazy patients don't finish their course of treatment because they feel better already, then bugs develop immunity - TO THE ANTIBIOTICS.
They don't get immune to alcohol hand sanitiser, though. That would be a bit like a soldier developing immunity to bullets. Not happening. It still kills them stone dead.

TLDR: Hand sanitisers DO kill all the germs on your hands. Use them properly, children.

Children? Children should wash their hands!
is all sanitizer alcohol based? Just curious?

Ok, I confess to not being ab expert on these matters, but a good pal is a consultant and in surgery at least 5 days a week. She was talking about how they've had to change their 'sterilization methods ' (that was the term I believe) as bacteria and viruses were becoming resistant to what they were using. Now, two things, I know bacteria and viruses are different, but I know they can be present in both 'meat' and humans. I made the leap from one form of 'meat' (on the op table) to the other. Perhaps that is the flaw in my argument. Maybe you can address that point for us 'little people', or (shock horror) is there a disagreement perhaps, in the scientific community?
I'd hate to remain misguided

PS. I will admit that my superbug comment was a sidestep to the hygene thread, and read as confusing. The point I was making there is that we are not immune to buggy bugs, even in a sanitary environment like a hospital. And people do become immune to the antibiotics for more reasons than not finishing a course, as I'm sure you know!

Cavehill Red

inisboffin wrote: »

Children? Children should wash their hands!
is all sanitizer alcohol based? Just curious?

All the useful ones are. Anything else is at best just liquid soap.

inisboffin wrote: »

Ok, I confess to not being ab expert on these matters, but a good pal is a consultant and in surgery at least 5 days a week. She was talking about how they've had to change their 'sterilization methods ' (that was the term I believe) as bacteria and viruses were becoming resistant to what they were using.

And do you actually know what a hospital consultant means when they talk about sterilisation methods? They mean protocols for preventing cross-infection within a hospital environment. You can be fairly sure they don't mean handling beef in a butcher's (gory and all though some surgeons can be!)

inisboffin wrote: »

Now, two things, I know bacteria and viruses are different, but I know they can be present in both 'meat' and humans. I made the leap from one form of 'meat' (on the op table) to the other. Perhaps that is the flaw in my argument. Maybe you can address that point for us 'little people', or (shock horror) is there a disagreement perhaps, in the scientific community?
I'd hate to remain misguided

Yes, bacteria are different from viruses. There isn't much can be done about viruses, generally. You catch em, you suffer em, you wait till you get better (or not, if it's something serious like HIV).
When we're talking about food safety, we're generally concerned about bacteria, specifically nasty bacteria that proliferates on food and can cause food poisoning. An alcohol based hand sanitiser will kill these bacteria stone dead on your hands. Then you won't pass them on to whatever food you're handling. Of course, there's more to food safety than that, as I'm sure you know. Correct storage is very important.

inisboffin wrote: »

PS. I will admit that my superbug comment was a sidestep to the hygene thread, and read as confusing. The point I was making there is that we are not immune to buggy bugs, even in a sanitary environment like a hospital. And people do become immune to the antibiotics for more reasons than not finishing a course, as I'm sure you know!

People become immune to the antibiotics???