Unsatisfactory hygien standards at city butchers

focuslfc

I used to work in a butchers that had a fresh meat/fish and deli counter. There is a very easy system they could utilise here.
1. Use gloves while serving the meat.
2. Put the gloves in the bin.
3. Serve the customer at the till.
4. Wash your hands or at least put on clean gloves.
5. Serve next customer.
And the circle continues and becomes a routine.

As for the hygiene I know every single day we had to clean every bit of equipment that we used for example the saw and the mincer would have to be cleaned inside out. Even the counters would be cleaned every single day and would get a deep clean on a weekly basis. The same applied for the fish counter. The butchers block would be sanded down on a daily basis if not more and all work top surfaces would be spotless. The same applied for the fridges and all the this was taught through haccp. There is no excuse for having poor hygiene in a well established business. I have an idea who one of the businesses the OP is talking about and i have never understood the reason why people go there.

Seaneh

gloves are pointless. People get lazy while wearing gloves and end up wearing the same pair for hours without once even running them under a tap.
Washing your hands every time you handle raw meat or money would be much more efficient and practical.

I actually HATE when I eat out and can see chefs wearing gloves, it immediately screams that they are trying to APPEAR to be clean rather than just using good practices.


next time your in a deli, watch the girl/lad there touch their face, clothes, brush their hair out of their eyes, scratch their head, wipe their borw, handle cold and hot meats and then make people a sambo with the same gloves on.

dolphin city

we could all just become vegetarian and use a bartering method instead of using money. That would solve it. But then, the problem would arise somewhere else.

yeehaw

dolphin city wrote: »

we could all just become vegetarian and use a bartering method instead of using money. That would solve it. But then, the problem would arise somewhere else.

Perhaps you could eat something infected with a particularly nasty strain of something... for the good of this board.

Mod note:banned for this comment

ben.schlomo

I bought meat in one of Galways best butchers in the heart of the city this morning and when he picked up the meat he used the outside of the plastic bag that he then put it in. he did not need to wear gloves and then i paid him. no problems. people would want to relax a bit. As long as you cook your meat properly theres no problem unless the place is a complete kip.

inisboffin

Cavehill Red wrote: »

All the useful ones are. Anything else is at best just liquid soap.



And do you actually know what a hospital consultant means when they talk about sterilisation methods? They mean protocols for preventing cross-infection within a hospital environment. You can be fairly sure they don't mean handling beef in a butcher's (gory and all though some surgeons can be!)



Yes, bacteria are different from viruses. There isn't much can be done about viruses, generally. You catch em, you suffer em, you wait till you get better (or not, if it's something serious like HIV).
When we're talking about food safety, we're generally concerned about bacteria, specifically nasty bacteria that proliferates on food and can cause food poisoning. An alcohol based hand sanitiser will kill these bacteria stone dead on your hands. Then you won't pass them on to whatever food you're handling. Of course, there's more to food safety than that, as I'm sure you know. Correct storage is very important.



People become immune to the antibiotics???

All the best ones are? Ok, good, lets hope people use the best!

Actually the conversation was about sterilization specifically in Theatre, not cross-hospital. You can't blame a comparison between the meats, really, can you?;)

There are plenty of 'nasty' 'less serious' viruses that can lead to death - (often as a result of a secondary infection, bacterial or non), and on the other side of the coin, plenty of people hiv+ (a 'serious' one) who are relatively healthy these days.


And yup!!

inisboffin

ben.schlomo wrote: »

I bought meat in one of Galways best butchers in the heart of the city this morning and when he picked up the meat he used the outside of the plastic bag that he then put it in. he did not need to wear gloves and then i paid him. no problems. people would want to relax a bit. As long as you cook your meat properly theres no problem unless the place is a complete kip.

This is what our old butcher my family had as a kid did, or something similar with butcher paper, tongs etc. But sticking your paws in and then handling cash sounds like it IS a complete kip, no? Well cooked meat is way safer, but rare meat, which some like, and burgers, (where the bacteria is often in the underdone bit in the middle, and hard to kill) are what can get ya.

One of the biggest 'old school' older butchers in Dublin does that thing with different people doing the cash to the meat - worked brilliant for years.

Steyr

inisboffin wrote: »

and 'craft butchers' who work for larger supermarkets.

I work with at least 4 who really know their stuff. Top men.

Steyr

focuslfc wrote: »

I used to work in a butchers that had a fresh meat/fish and deli counter. There is a very easy system they could utilise here.
1. Use gloves while serving the meat.
2. Put the gloves in the bin.
3. Serve the customer at the till.
4. Wash your hands or at least put on clean gloves.
5. Serve next customer.
And the circle continues and becomes a routine.

As for the hygiene I know every single day we had to clean every bit of equipment that we used for example the saw and the mincer would have to be cleaned inside out. Even the counters would be cleaned every single day and would get a deep clean on a weekly basis. The same applied for the fish counter. The butchers block would be sanded down on a daily basis if not more and all work top surfaces would be spotless. The same applied for the fridges and all the this was taught through haccp. There is no excuse for having poor hygiene in a well established business. I have an idea who one of the businesses the OP is talking about and i have never understood the reason why people go there.

Your damn right its all basic HACCP Procedures.

El_Dangeroso

Cavehill Red wrote: »

But, they splutter, look at the superbugs in the hospitals? Yes, indeed. When we treat conditions with antibiotics, and lazy patients don't finish their course of treatment because they feel better already, then bugs develop immunity - TO THE ANTIBIOTICS.

No, that's now how it happens at all, at least no one in the scientific community would credit that theory. Finishing a course of antibiotics has nothing to do with whether a bacteria develops immunity or not, more down to overuse of antibiotics. Just had to point that out since you took such issue with someone else's scientific ignorance, which was a bit mean I thought.

inisboffin

Thanks. Eloquence and tiredness do not mix.

focuslfc

ben.schlomo wrote: »

I bought meat in one of Galways best butchers in the heart of the city this morning and when he picked up the meat he used the outside of the plastic bag that he then put it in. he did not need to wear gloves and then i paid him. no problems. people would want to relax a bit. As long as you cook your meat properly theres no problem unless the place is a complete kip.

We used to do this aswell where i worked but make sure there is no print on the outside of the bag.:D

Cavehill Red

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

No, that's now how it happens at all, at least no one in the scientific community would credit that theory. Finishing a course of antibiotics has nothing to do with whether a bacteria develops immunity or not, more down to overuse of antibiotics. Just had to point that out since you took such issue with someone else's scientific ignorance, which was a bit mean I thought.

Not mean at all. It's totally wrong to assert that HAIs are spread by alcohol-based sanitisers, and to leave that assertion unchallenged could lead to people believing it and failing to sanitise their hands in clinical environments.
Incidentally, finishing courses of antibiotics has plenty to do with whether bacteria develop immunity, because it is the failure to finish courses which leads to the overuse of antibiotics in the first place.

TheBunk1

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

No, that's now how it happens at all, at least no one in the scientific community would credit that theory. Finishing a course of antibiotics has nothing to do with whether a bacteria develops immunity or not, more down to overuse of antibiotics. Just had to point that out since you took such issue with someone else's scientific ignorance, which was a bit mean I thought.

Actually it is a factor in the spread of antibiotic resistance and I don't know where you got the idea that no one in the scientific community would agree! Even though a person may feel fine after 2-3 days of a 7 day course (or whatever combination you like) it does not mean the infection is gone. Lower levels of bacteria may still remain; levels at which there is an asymptomatic infection. These persisters, having had sub-lethal pre-exposure to the antibiotic now have a greater chance to develop resistance.

Every single course of antibiotic dispensed in this country has the words "FINISH THE COURSE" printed on the box for a reason.

Not finishing the course can lead to re-infection and another course of antibiotics and hence the overuse you refer to!

It might be an idea to get your own facts straight.

inisboffin

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Not mean at all. It's totally wrong to assert that HAIs are spread by alcohol-based sanitisers, and to leave that assertion unchallenged could lead to people believing it and failing to sanitise their hands in clinical environments.

So you seem to be saying, that leaving my comments unchecked (when you did so graciously check them in such a witty and sweet manner)on boards.ie, would lead to trained professionals abandoning their own scientific opinions, and burning their bras, I mean hand sanitizer (alcohol based - wait, you started that one!) thus bringing on a massive epidimic of something itis.

Wow. I'm glad I'm a kid and don't have to take this Internet stuff seriously, otherwise I'd be very stressed at what I did!

Cavehill Red

inisboffin wrote: »

So you seem to be saying, that leaving my comments unchecked (when you did so graciously check them in such a witty and sweet manner)on boards.ie, would lead to trained professionals abandoning their own scientific opinions, and burning their bras, I mean hand sanitizer (alcohol based - wait, you started that one!) thus bringing on a massive epidimic of something itis.

Wow. I'm glad I'm a kid and don't have to take this Internet stuff seriously, otherwise I'd be very stressed at what I did!

No, I said that your comments might encourage members of the public to stop using hand sanitisers in hospital environments, not the professionals who well know the importance of using them.

inisboffin

Oh I see.. That's what you were saying.
So how do you feel about hygiene in butchers again?

Cavehill Red

inisboffin wrote: »

Oh I see.. That's what you were saying.
So how do you feel about hygene in butchers again?

Could be better in some places.
I like to shop in butchers where I can watch how they go about things before I shop, personally.

El_Dangeroso

TheBunk1 wrote: »

Actually it is a factor in the spread of antibiotic resistance and I don't know where you got the idea that no one in the scientific community would agree! Even though a person may feel fine after 2-3 days of a 7 day course (or whatever combination you like) it does not mean the infection is gone. Lower levels of bacteria may still remain; levels at which there is an asymptomatic infection. These persisters, having had sub-lethal pre-exposure to the antibiotic now have a greater chance to develop resistance.

Every single course of antibiotic dispensed in this country has the words "FINISH THE COURSE" printed on the box for a reason.

Not finishing the course can lead to re-infection and another course of antibiotics and hence the overuse you refer to!

It might be an idea to get your own facts straight.

Hmm, I should have clarified my writing more. It is a factor I grant you, but a small one and no where near the main cause. The only papers I have ever come across that show it happening in humans are in the extremely ill and in invitro studies. Most overuse is from over prescription.

But sigh, thanks for missing my main point all the same, the fact that getting all haughty and snarky about science is laughable when answering in such a brief format and making broad statements. I swear, what is up with this forum and the bad-tempered way people jump down people's throats when Galway is such a friendly city.

No need for that kind of attitude at all. You can actually make a point and not resort to insulting people believe it or not.

Have a nice day now

I usually buy meat from supermarket butchers who don't handle money but they always handle the meat, bag it and hand it to you, the same is done by butchers from what Ive seen. This is no different as the bag will have been handled by the same hands as the raw meat yet this is never noticed/bothers anybody.