Brand Loyalty

BaZmO*

Was out the other night in the rather amazing L Mulligan Grocers for some food and drinks. Tried Trouble Brewing’s Dark Arts Porter for the first time which was beautiful, (much nicer than Ór), and the food was pretty amazing too. Definitely worth checking out if you’re ever around Stoneybatter. Just wish I had somewhere like it on my doorstep.

Anyway, I was sitting at the bar and there was the usual stream of people coming in asking for Guinness and Heineken and then being totally bewildered that neither were available.
But there was one incident, which I’m sure is played out many many times over the weekend, that got me thinking, “Are we really that brand loyal?”

A guy asks the barman for a pint of Guinness, only to be told that they don’t do Guinness, so he then asks for Heineken, same again, don’t do it. So finally he asks for Bulmers, which they actually have, so he has a pint of that.
The thing that got me is that he changed his preference of style from Stout to Lager to Cider just so he could drink a brand that he knew, even though there were many alternatives to all the brands that he was looking for.

I remember I used to be a bit like that when I was younger. First time in the Porterhouse was an eye opener when I found out that they didn’t do Guinness, but at least I was “brave” enough to try the equivalent in style rather than, not only jump brands, but styles too.

irish_goat

Happens all the time in the pub I work in, they ask for Carslberg(which we don't sell) and then settle for Bulmers or even Smithwicks sometimes.

matrim

I'd normally be one for trying out different beers but occasionally it's nice to go for something you know

E.g. I know roughly what I'll feel like after 4 pints of Heineken \ Smithwicks (or insert any beer you drink regularly). But if I had 4 pints of *insert new craft beer* I can't guarantee how I'll be feeling.

But for me that's the minority of the time, and generally when I would want make sure I stick to a known brand it's for one of two reasons.
1) I only want one or two pints to relax and want something I know will "hit the spot".
2) Or when I know I'll be out for a session and want to be better able to control how drunk I'll get throughout the night.

BTW in the above 2 scenarios, this doesn't have to be a macro, but can cover any drink that I drink regularly. And for the majority of people, what they know will be the Heineken, Carlsberg, Guinness etc.

fitxer

Do we have the same brand loyalty when it comes to spirits? I'm sure we have all been in a pub or club and have asked for a vodka (or Gin etc.) and coke (mixer) and have just accepted the brand they have given to use. for e.g. I once asked for a double vodka and redbull and got a double smirnoff and another energy drink (think i got shark) and didnt think anything much of it and just drank it. When I ask for a vodka I would accept any of the major brands without hesitation. Why is this? And why do people ask for a captain morgan instead of a rum?

I know in other European countries on the continent they just ask for a glass of beer and hardly ever ask for the brand, but I do think they ask for a brand when ordering spirits.

BaZmO*

fitxer wrote: »

Do we have the same brand loyalty when it comes to spirits?

Yes. I think so. From experience working in a bar people would not necessarily ask for a Smirnoff when asking for a Vodka but it would definitely be a preference.

fitxer wrote: »

And why do people ask for a captain morgan instead of a rum?

Because it’s a spiced rum. Quite different to the likes of Bacardi, etc

BeerNut

It just depends how much work the marketing people have done to build their brand. With mainstream Irish beer it's a lot.

In the rest of Europe you're more likely to have single suppliers to bars: in the UK you have the tied house system, in Madrid you might have Cruzcampo one place and Mahou in another; in Paris it'll be Kronenbourg one place and Stella in another. The breweries haven't really invested in making people Lager A or Lager B drinkers, so the idea of Lagers A and B appearing side-by-side in the same bar, as in Ireland, would be daft.

BaZmO*

But in Ireland, doesn't brand loyalty go beyond beer?

BeerNut

It does. Cigarettes are another where the competing leaders are extremely similar to each other but are very much differentiated by branding, even after they're banned from advertising at all.

whadabouchasir

fitxer wrote: »

Do we have the same brand loyalty when it comes to spirits? I'm sure we have all been in a pub or club and have asked for a vodka (or Gin etc.) and coke (mixer) and have just accepted the brand they have given to use.

You're right about vodka and Gin I don't think that people would ask for a specific brand,but they would definitely ask for a specific brand of whiskey and probably a specific rum or brandy too.

fitxer

Obviously advertising has a lot to do with it. In a lot of the pubs now there is posters and notices up saying Captain Morgan and coke for a fiver (or so) so the consumer automatically asks for captain morgan. Where as I remember a few years back when all the deals were hitting niteclubs and pubs all over dublin it was generally for e.g. vodka and redbull for a 5. Was this branding by redbull or did the vodka companies miss out and Captain Morgan realised how important it was to get in on this?

I also saw a few months back adverts for Jameson and coke (mixer) and also remember them doing promos in a few pubs giving out free Jameson with mixers.

BeerNut

fitxer wrote: »

did the vodka companies miss out and Captain Morgan realised how important it was to get in on this.

Diageo wanted to push Captain Morgan, so they replace their Smirnoff-and-Red-Bull offers with Captain-Morgan-and-Coke offers. Somewhere in St James's Gate there's a spreadsheet with the reasons on it.

ClareVisitor

It is weird that someone would ask for Guinness, then lager and finally cider. I am a lager drinker and would gladly try something new where none of the usual suspects are to be found.

Obviously the firms behind these brands want to build up brand loyalty, it is a bit sad that so many people don't seem to be able to see through it. Maybe my years working in the retail industry have made me more attuned to it. The extreme comes when, for instance, in the US people often don't buy tissues, they buy "Kleenex".

wonderfulname

BeerNut wrote: »

It does. Cigarettes are another where the competing leaders are extremely similar to each other but are very much differentiated by branding, even after they're banned from advertising at all.

There are differences in taste, there's a hell of a lot bigger a difference between benson and john player than there is heineken and carlsberg.

I find that people don't want to experiment given the cost of alcohol in a bar. If you're only going for one pint, and that pint is going to cost in and around 5 euro, you don't want it to be a disappointment. It has happened to me a few times in the UK where I've asked the bartender for their recommendation only to be given something which I've found undrinkable.
Some people also seem to have the perception of big brand meaning big quality. Then there's just the fact that we humans don't like change very much and do tend to get set in our ways.

Brand loyalty with spirits is different, people ask for the best drink for their money as invariably all are priced the same with the exception of premium brands, Smirnoff in places rumoured to treat huzzar as the house vodka for example, or any gin drinker I know will specify Bombay Sapphire as its just a better gin. Your average smirnoff drinker isn't about to order a grey goose purely because of the price, and they will generally expect to be handed a smirnoff when the order a vodka.
Where people do not specify there is invariably no option, or no option within the standard pricing.

BeerNut

wonderfulname wrote: »

there's a hell of a lot bigger a difference between benson and john player than there is heineken and carlsberg.

Perhaps, but you're just picking brands that suit your argument. There are, what, seven or so mainstream lager brands, depending on where you draw the lines? If you picked the seven top brands of cigarette would they cover a bigger spectrum? Hard to say I guess, since it's like comparing seven types of apple with seven types of orange.

wonderfulname wrote: »

It has happened to me a few times in the UK where I've asked the bartender for their recommendation only to be given something which I've found undrinkable.

So why didn't you ask for a taste of it first? Any pub that's serving a beer which doesn't have a pre-built loyal following and which isn't actively offering free samples to customers at the bar is failing at basic sales technique. Of course the loyalty gene is going to kick in at that point. In the UK's cask ale culture, where the beer range changes hugely and rapidly, there is an established culture among customers to ask for samples. More of us should be doing that here if we see a new beer we'd like to try but don't want to risk a fiver on.

wonderfulname wrote: »

Then there's just the fact that we humans don't like change very much and do tend to get set in our ways.

But, as pointed out above, humans in other beer-drinking cultures don't show the same loyalty to samey products as we Irish do.

the beer revolu

ClareVisitor wrote: »

It is weird that someone would ask for Guinness, then lager and finally cider. I am a lager drinker and would gladly try something new where none of the usual suspects are to be found.

I sometimes find myself doing something similar when found in mainstream bars:

Do you have Pint Bottles of Guinness?
No.
Erdinger or some other weissbier that's not Paulanner?
No.
Smithwicks?
No.
OK, I'll have a pint of Beamish/Guinness/Murphy's.


All very different beers and styles. Am I brand loyal to these brands?

rubadub

BaZmO* wrote: »

So finally he asks for Bulmers, which they actually have, so he has a pint of that.
The thing that got me is that he changed his preference of style from Stout to Lager to Cider just so he could drink a brand that he knew, even though there were many alternatives to all the brands that he was looking for.

It is strange they do not bother asking either the barman or mates what would be similar. When I smoked and they did not have my John player blues you would often hear them recommending alternative brands, which I presume other people who asked for them went for so the shopkeeper presumed they must be similar. Going from stout to cider is like chalk & cheese, I doubt many could tell the difference in the main stouts, I think Beernut did blind tasting which proved this.

I was drinking cans of beamish in my mates as it was €1 a can, another mate came in who has drank guinness for almost 20 years and was appalled, was genuinely in shock saying in disgust somethign like "what the f**k are you drinking that for" -I didn't ask at the time but presume he may have never once tasted beamish, and perhaps never tasted another stout ever. People have it in their head that beamish must be horrible since its cheaper than guinness :rolleyes:, I still maintain if they put the pricing up more would drink it.

fitxer wrote: »

When I ask for a vodka I would accept any of the major brands without hesitation. Why is this? And why do people ask for a captain morgan instead of a rum?

Captain Morgan is spiced as mentioned, so it would be like asking for a flavoured absolut vodka. One definition of vodka is that it is a tasteless, odourless netural drink, so in that regard it would be like people asking for a bottle of water in a newsagent, rather than specifically asking for volvic, while most would have a preference for other drinks like coke, lilt etc.

If I asked for a "rum & coke" I would expect white bacardi, or perhaps white havana club. Ruim is also fairly flavourless and in general you get given a mainstream brand. I think people are more careful with whiskey as they fear getting some weird cheapo brand, and there is more of a taste difference.

wonderfulname wrote: »

I find that people don't want to experiment given the cost of alcohol in a bar. If you're only going for one pint, and that pint is going to cost in and around 5 euro, you don't want it to be a disappointment.

I have always had the opposite mindset, that it does not cost that much and is worth a gamble, people try out things in fastfood outlets which are about €5 or more. Its like these publicans who refuse to stock "risky" beers -saying that it will not sell, all they have to do is shell out for a simple 6 pack and see if it sells, if not drink it themselves, yet you would swear they are putting on a building extension or something. I am sick to death of people asking for drinks from my glass of any beer other than the mainstream piss.

I can see where the cost could be an issue in a roundabout way. One big factor I think is the "bad burger" mentality, people fishing down a load of drink, getting sick and blaming the burger. I think people are far more likely to try another beer from the off licence rather than the pub. This is due to offers in offies, so they might be swayed to try another beer since it is half the price of their usual -or else people go to a house and drink what is offered to them. Now when drinking at home from what I see people drink far more -it is cheaper and there is no delay in waiting between drinks (like queueing in a packed bar) -therefore people get far more drunk, get sick and they proclaim "I am never drinking that **insert brand** again, gives me a terrible head". This also happens when people drink stronger beers than the usual 4.3% stuff and do not reduce their amounts, or drink water to compensate for it.

wonderfulname

BeerNut wrote: »

Perhaps, but you're just picking brands that suit your argument. There are, what, seven or so mainstream lager brands, depending on where you draw the lines? If you picked the seven top brands of cigarette would they cover a bigger spectrum? Hard to say I guess, since it's like comparing seven types of apple with seven types of orange.

No, no I'm not, do you smoke? They all do taste different, some are more similar than others but they are not all the same. There are only two brands I can think of that are basically the same thing, and they're tobacco.

BeerNut wrote: »

So why didn't you ask for a taste of it first? Any pub that's serving a beer which doesn't have a pre-built loyal following and which isn't actively offering free samples to customers at the bar is failing at basic sales technique. Of course the loyalty gene is going to kick in at that point. In the UK's cask ale culture, where the beer range changes hugely and rapidly, there is an established culture among customers to ask for samples. More of us should be doing that here if we see a new beer we'd like to try but don't want to risk a fiver on.

I've never heard of a publican giving out free samples, might be practice in the UK but I'm not to know, it certainly isn't practice here.

BeerNut wrote: »

But, as pointed out above, humans in other beer-drinking cultures don't show the same loyalty to samey products as we Irish do.

As you pointed out. You forget that the same practice can be found in Ireland, Bemish and Guinness pubs anyone? If I'm a Guinness drinker I just don't go to the Bemish pub, its not a case of someone sitting themselves down in either pub and ordering a stout. Same is true elsewhere, the beer on tap is one of the reasons you go to the bar you do.

rubadub

wonderfulname wrote: »

No, no I'm not, do you smoke? They all do taste different, some are more similar than others but they are not all the same. There are only two brands I can think of that are basically the same thing, and they're tobacco.

Some do taste different alright, like a marlboro light is quite different from camels. But a guy jumping from guinness to bulmers without asking for beamish/murphys or any other stout would be like a guy jumping from john player blues to a cigar, or pipe or rolling tobacco -all very different animals but still getting the job done. Personally I would find about as much difference between benson/blues and carlsberg/heineken, albeit not a huge difference, either would do me.

wonderfulname wrote: »

I've never heard of a publican giving out free samples, might be practice in the UK but I'm not to know, it certainly isn't practice here.

Probably never heard of it since nobody you know or saw has probably asked. I expect in some places like the porter house or against the grain they would gladly give out a shot glass amount of draught beers -opening a bottle of beer might be a different story though, but I see guys requesting wine to be opened in my offie the odd time and they do it.

BeerNut

wonderfulname wrote: »

They all do taste different, some are more similar than others but they are not all the same.

My point is it's the same with mainstream lagers. And, as with cigarettes, they're all in the same general price bracket.

wonderfulname wrote: »

I've never heard of a publican giving out free samples, might be practice in the UK but I'm not to know, it certainly isn't practice here.

Have you ever been refused a taster of a beer in a pub in Ireland?

wonderfulname wrote: »

Bemish and Guinness pubs anyone?

I can't think of a single pub which serves Beamish but not Guinness.

wonderfulname wrote: »

its not a case of someone sitting themselves down in either pub and ordering a stout.

Yet the equivalent does happen elsewhere. It's not a human thing; it's an Irish thing.

the beer revolu

BeerNut wrote: »

I can't think of a single pub which serves Beamish but not Guinness.

Calanan's Georges Quay, Cork.
They do serve Guinness Pint Bottles, though.

ClareVisitor

the beer revolu wrote: »

I sometimes find myself doing something similar when found in mainstream bars:

Do you have Pint Bottles of Guinness?
No.
Erdinger or some other weissbier that's not Paulanner?
No.
Smithwicks?
No.
OK, I'll have a pint of Beamish/Guinness/Murphy's.


All very different beers and styles. Am I brand loyal to these brands?

It does sound like it from what you say. It's not a crticism though, just interesting. If people like certain products, who am I to say there's anything wrong with that?

Anyhoo, sometimes I like to try something else just for the sake of it, last night I was at a Belgian bar in London for drinks with some friends and took a liking to Brugse Zot. A bit strong, but the cycle ride to work sorted me out this morning!:)

LiamOSullivan

BeerNut wrote: »

[...]
Have you ever been refused a taster of a beer in a pub in Ireland?
[...]

This is an interesting point.
Have you ever asked for one?

Personally, I'm a little shy and wouldn't ask for one; my experience of most bars would seem to dissuade me from doing so. Having never seen it happen, I'd be especially hesitant to try.

BeerNut

LiamOSullivan wrote: »

Have you ever asked for one?

Yes, plenty of times. Normally, I'm in the its-only-a-fiver-how-bad-can-it-be? camp, and chalk it up to experience if it's bad. But if I'm trying to decide between several, yes I'll ask for a taster, and I've never been refused.

LiamOSullivan wrote: »

my experience of most bars would seem to dissuade me from doing so.

My experience of most bars is that they serve little worth sampling. But if somewhere has something new and unfamiliar on tap that people might not already know then I'd be very surprised if they weren't offering tasters to the curious. I'm fairly sure the brewers would encourage it.

KJ

The first time I was in Against The Grain, the girl behind the bar offered me tasters on stuff they ahd on tap before I decided what pint to get.

matrim

BeerNut wrote: »

Yes, plenty of times. Normally, I'm in the its-only-a-fiver-how-bad-can-it-be? camp, and chalk it up to experience if it's bad. But if I'm trying to decide between several, yes I'll ask for a taster, and I've never been refused.

I've gotten tasters in the likes of Porterhouse and Messers before. But I'd expect it there as they have different choices that people wouldn't know.

I can't imagine a barman in a normal pub being too impressed if you went up and asked for a taster of Carlsberg

Big Nasty

Any bar that stocks non main stream beers, especially on draught, are always more than willing to give tasters.