How to be an atheist parent?

oldrnwisr

ElectraX wrote: »

I personally think it is wrong for Atheist parents to enforce their beliefs on their child. Just as much as you don't want Catholicism being shoved down your child's throat at school, you shouldn't be doing it with Atheism at home either.
In an ideal world, every child would go to a multi denominational school, learn about morality and get a broad overview of all religions. Clearly for you OP this is unfortunately not a choice due to geographical circumstances. But you need to let your child grow up an make their own informed decision. You need to ensure they grow up understanding that what they are learning at school is different to your beliefs, but it's ok for them to ultimately choose their own faith.
I went to a staunchly Catholic school myself, from the time I was 3 to 18.I do not consider myself Catholic now,so was clearly not left scarred or brainwashed by the experience.I went to school with plenty of people who are now committed Atheists.
Your child is in pre-school, I don't understand what detrimental affect you think the religion they are learning will have on them??Alienating them from their classmates by convincing them that what they are being taught in school is wrong will have a detrimental affect though.
They will grow up being exposed to Catholicism at school, Atheism at home, Main thing is that your child should eventually understand that everyone has different beliefs and that all faiths should be respected.

Seriously?

"I personally think it is wrong for Atheist parents to enforce their beliefs on their child."

Beliefs such as??


"you shouldn't be doing it with Atheism at home either."

So parents shouldn't pass on their views on life to their children? Does this go for all parents or just ones you don't agree with?


"I don't understand what detrimental affect you think the religion they are learning will have on them??"

There's a difference between between taught about religions and having one specific religion made part of every aspect of the class.


"all faiths should be respected."

No, a person's right to their beliefs should be respected. That doesn't mean we have to respect the beliefs themselves.

ElectraX

oldrnwisr wrote: »

Seriously?

"I personally think it is wrong for Atheist parents to enforce their beliefs on their child."

Beliefs such as??


"you shouldn't be doing it with Atheism at home either."

So parents shouldn't pass on their views on life to their children? Does this go for all parents or just ones you don't agree with?


"I don't understand what detrimental affect you think the religion they are learning will have on them??"

There's a difference between between taught about religions and having one specific religion made part of every aspect of the class.


"all faiths should be respected."

No, a person's right to their beliefs should be respected. That doesn't mean we have to respect the beliefs themselves.

ehm, ok, clearly have to go back to basics here.Everyone has "beliefs". Atheism is a belief system that denies the existence of God.

You didn't read my post properly. I said a child should be raised in a home with acceptance and understanding of all religious positions.None of them should be enforced on them. I clearly stated that they will obviously be exposed to Atheism at home, Catholicism at school, but ultimately they will decide which, if either, to follow.

I was also talking about "detrimental affects" from pre-school religion; do you remember what religion you learnt in school at three?

mikhail

ElectraX wrote: »

In an ideal world, every child would go to a multi denominational school, learn about morality and get a broad overview of all religions.

All religions? Or just the popular ones? Are we assuming that the popular ones are more likely to be true?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religions_and_spiritual_traditions

MagicMarker

ElectraX wrote: »

ehm, ok, clearly have to go back to basics here.Everyone has "beliefs". Atheism is a belief system that denies the existence of God.

Is not believing in unicorns a belief system?

dvpower

Mona Olsen wrote: »

What do you mean by this? I'm also concerned about a removal in terms of making him separate from the group, or any attitude his friends might have on his perceived difference to them. There were two CofI boys in my class in school and I remember the class attitude to their lack of involvement.

I mean exactly that. Removing him from RE will mark him out as 'different'.
It's a really crappy system; it shouldn't have to be this way, but it is. It might be easier to just roll with the punches.

Improbable

MagicMarker wrote: »

Is not believing in unicorns a belief system?

This whole argument of "it is a belief system" vs "it is a lack of a belief system" comes up so often, it really should be stickied.

ElectraX

mikhail wrote: »

All religions? Or just the popular ones? Are we assuming that the popular ones are more likely to be true?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religions_and_spiritual_traditions

The major world religions would be a good start for a child!

Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam,Christianity,Judaism and also Secular.

I don't see the need for my child to be educated in school on Scientology, Mormonism, etc.

Improbable

ElectraX wrote: »

The major world religions would be a good start for a child!

Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam,Christianity,Judaism and also Secular.

I don't see the need for my child to be educated in school on Scientology, Mormonism, etc.

Why not?

5uspect

ElectraX wrote: »

I don't see the need for my child to be educated in school on Scientology, Mormonism, etc.

Why not?

oldrnwisr

ElectraX wrote: »

Everyone has "beliefs". Atheism is a belief system that denies the existence of God.

What a load of crap! I'm sick of hearing this "atheism is a religion" nonsense. You know you may want to actually look at the different views of atheists before making sweeping generalisations. There is a difference between strong or explicit atheism where someone positively asserts that there is no God and weak or implicit atheism where someone does not believe in a God.
I categorise myself in the latter category. I don't subscribe to a belief system. I am happy to state that this is what, as humans, we know and answer I don't know to the rest. Just because there are gaps in our knowledge doesn't mean you can fill in the gaps with whatever fairytale most appeals to you.

As for your definition of atheism, there is a flaw in its wording in that the use of the word denies implies that the existence of God is a fact which atheists refuse to accept.

ElectraX

5uspect wrote: »

Why not?

Because where would you begin and end?? There wouldn't be enough hours in a child's whole education system for them to learn about every religious position.
If they get an overview of the major world religions that is an excellent start, and way more progressive than when I was in school and it was blanket Catholicism education.Through life experience, they will inevitably learn the rest anyway.

ElectraX

ElectraX wrote: »

The major world religions would be a good start for a child!

Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam,Christianity,Judaism and also Secular.

I don't see the need for my child to be educated in school on Scientology, Mormonism, etc.

I don't think "secular" is a religion?

As for the rest, why not?

oldrnwisr wrote:

As for your definition of atheism, there is a flaw in its wording in that the use of the word denies implies that the existence of God is a fact which atheists refuse to accept.

Yes, I agree

ElectraX

bluewolf wrote: »

I don't think "secular" is a religion?

As for the rest, why not?


Yes, I agree

Hence I said major world religions..... and Secular!:)

Morag

Mona Olsen wrote: »

My concern with the priest was not that he would be left unsupervised with the children. There are 2 teachers, and I should have been clearer - the two children were taken aside, but stayed in the room therefore watching the ceremony. Am I alone in thinking this is wholly inappropriate in a state funded or privately funded facility for 3 year olds??
The pre-school does not have a policy on religious education, RE doesn't exist in pre-school facilities, therefore all parents assume this stuff would never happen without expressed consent.

This it how it will go, for the entire time your child is in the school.
Opted out means told to go sit at the side or back of the class or stay in you place doing other work or art while the religion class goes on around the child.
Or being put in another class while the child's class goes to the church and having the parish priest pop in for a visit to the class room.

Yes it does mark the child out as different and yes bullying can happen.
You need to go to the head of the school and out line what you do not want happening and what they can do to accommodate and what they will not be willing to do.

Start as you mean to go on.

MagicMarker

ElectraX wrote: »

The major world religions would be a good start for a child!

Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam,Christianity,Judaism and also Secular.

I don't see the need for my child to be educated in school on Scientology, Mormonism, etc.

biko

Imo, it doesn't matter as much these days when atheism is more accepted in Ireland than only 20-30 years ago.
For children there can be comfort in believing in a god and when they grow up they decide for themselves.
Also as atheist parents you can tell your child that some people believe in Allah, some in Buddah, some in Odin, some in Jaweh and some does not believe in any gods.

When they are small I think you should let them hear various doctrines. They will find their own way as teenagers anyway.
When kids in my family ask me whether I believe in god I just say no I don't. It can turn into quite interesting discussions.

dvpower

biko wrote: »

When they are small I think you should let them hear various doctrines. They will find their own way as teenagers anyway.

Teaching kids about various different religious doctrines isn't a problem at all. But our (catholic) school system doesn't just teach; it indoctrinates.

So an atheist parent might be telling their kids that 'some people believe in Allah, some in Buddah, some in Odin, some in Jaweh' etc but the catholic school is telling them what they should believe.

Dades

MagicMarker wrote: »

Is not believing in unicorns a belief system?

It works so much better when you ask if "denying the existence of unicorns is a belief system"...

Mona Olsen

Sharrow wrote: »

This it how it will go, for the entire time your child is in the school.
Opted out means told to go sit at the side or back of the class or stay in you place doing other work or art while the religion class goes on around the child.
Or being put in another class while the child's class goes to the church and having the parish priest pop in for a visit to the class room.

Yes it does mark the child out as different and yes bullying can happen.
You need to go to the head of the school and out line what you do not want happening and what they can do to accommodate and what they will not be willing to do.

Start as you mean to go on.

Thanks for that. Yes, I do mean to start as I go on, which means excluding him from religious lessons.
This thread has really gone off course with many assumptions made about my circumstances and parenting methods.
I am not overreacting to a priest in the pre-school. I have not made a complaint to the school about it. It surprised and shocked me that parents were not asked their wishes at the start of the year, if religion was going to be taught/practised in a secular pre-school. This incident has just steeled me for what I feel may be a difficult time in the main school.

With regards the damage done by catholic teachings - yes I do believe it does a child great harm to be told that they must believe unquestioningly in any omnipotent being. You throw enough **** against a wall and some of it is going to stick. The notion that 'God is always watching' really affected me as a child, and also left me feelign quite helpless and punished when something bad happened in life.
Many of the teachings of the church contravene my own beliefs and moral code, and I will pass on my own views to my child as any parent does. I also teach him about diversity and try to instill tolerance and acceptance.
I had an extremely strict Catholic upbringing and was put out of class and disciplined for asking simple questions (eg why does Jesus have blue eyes in that picture?), my brother was sent home from school for asking if Adam and Eve were monkeys. Now I don't expect that type of teaching nowadays, but schools are still teaching a huge amount of fairy tales when they could be teaching science, maths, philosophy, ethics, moral code etc. Classes that could actually allow a child to develop into an independent free thinking individual.
Anyway, my OP was not about the rights or wrongs of a Catholic education. I merely asked for directions to a group/website/literature for like minded parents. Thanks to those that have offered same.

Galvasean

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

Now, if you can get a three-year-old child anyone to understand and believe all that, then you can call the child person Catholic, but not before.

IMO

ElectraX wrote: »

Hence I said major world religions..... and Secular!:)

What's the cut off point? On what criteria do you choose which religions to teach the kids? Number of followers in the world? Number of followers in this continent / country / province / county / city / town / neighborhood? Do we teach the oldest religions? What about the one's with most money? How about the ones with the most disproportionate political influence?

eyescreamcone

Galvasean wrote: »

What's the cut off point? On what criteria do you choose which religions to teach the kids? Number of followers in the world? Number of followers in this continent / country / province / county / city / town / neighborhood? Do we teach the oldest religions? What about the one's with most money? How about the ones with the most disproportionate political influence?

I think religions should have a significant amount of magic in their makeup.
I don't like religions to be sensible-ish (Unitarian, Anglican etc)
I like them to be a little outside the box (RCC, Scientology etc)

If you're going to start making stuff up then go the whole hog...
The Holy Ghost
Original Sin
Transubstantiation
Spaceships

Ah Ted...that's mad!!!



PS Gotta love Mary's Assumption into heaven
This was made official doctrine around 1950.
You couldn't make it up...Oh, they did already!!!

eyescreamcone

eyescreamcone wrote: »

I think religions should have a significant amount of magic in their makeup.
I don't like religions to be sensible-ish (Unitarian, Anglican etc)
I like them to be a little outside the box (RCC, Scientology etc)

If you're going to start making stuff up then go the whole hog...
The Holy Ghost
Original Sin
Transubstantiation
Spaceships

Ah Ted...that's mad!!!



PS Gotta love Mrs. Mary Christ's Assumption into heaven.
C'mon now!
This was made official doctrine around ...1950.
You couldn't make it up...Oh, they did already!!!

And then you'll have guys ticking the "I'm one of them" boxes in the upcoming census.
It's the "Yes I'm a mental case" box that they should be ticking.

By the way I will always defend your right to declare yourself a nutter

gbee

Mona Olsen wrote: »

My husband and I are both atheists.

You've got an outline of the procedure, children do get separated into different groups and if it is a Catholic School, the extent as already outlined may not be sufficient for your needs.

Some areas, particularly areas having taken larger quantities of asylum children will be very well versed and clued in.

But to offer my own observations, some asylum children's parents have opted out again to allow their children to participate fully in any and all activities. There may be a slightly different motive here, to allow Muslim children to go to communion and so on. I'm not offering a judgement on this, you can think out scenarios why for yourself.

If you are in a rural area, as I suspect given the commute difficulties, I can tell you that you won't be very well received, but accommodated to the minimum.

You'd do well to try and find out in advance if there are other children in similar optout positions, you really don't want your child to be the first or only one.

Galvasean

eyescreamcone wrote: »

And then you'll have guys ticking the "I'm one of them" boxes in the upcoming census.

The daft thing is, on the subject of the census, I have told so many people who said they were ticking 'Catholic' exactly what many of the core beliefs of Catholocism were and they simply did not believe me. Said I was making it up.
Yep, that's what's happening here. I'm clearly making things up to make Catholicism look foolish as a means to further my 'atheist agenda'. A 2,000 year old belief system based on contradictory and often poorly translated writings of many independent sheep herders couldn't be wacky could it? :rolleyes:

Galvasean

Galvasean wrote: »

The daft thing is, on the subject of the census, I have told so many people who said they were ticking 'Catholic' exactly what many of the core beliefs of Catholocism were and they simply did not believe me. Said I was making it up.Yep, that's what's happening here. I'm clearly making things up to make Catholicism look foolish as a means to further my 'atheist agenda'. A 2,000 year old belief system based on contradictory and often poorly translated writings of many independent sheep herders couldn't be wacky could it? :rolleyes:

heh
I hope you directed them to their local priest


It really is another argument against the religion in schools bit when they spend time trying to indocrinate children and they can't even do the job properly - most people have about as much clue about it as they have about speaking irish

Galvasean

bluewolf wrote: »

heh

It really is another argument against the religion in schools bit when they spend time trying to indocrinate children and they can't even do the job properly - most people have about as much clue about it as they have about speaking irish

If you ask me they are doing it the right way. Nobody would stick with them if they knew all the wacky BS from the word go so the version they teach in schools casually overlooks the literal ritualistic cannibalism*. Generally the more people learn about the Catholic faith the less they believe it.
Much like how Scientology don't tell you about Zenu, aliens etc. until you are already roped in and drooling from the mouth.

*edit: on a side note I was shocked to discover that Catholicism's official stance is that it is literally human flesh being eaten at mass. I mean, if there was ever a religious belief that could easily be disproven...
In (catholic) primary school i was always told it was a metaphor. Ironically I never found out about the literal cannibalism until the good people of A&A pointed it out to me.

edit #2 (because Galvasean wants to make a pop-culture reference):

"I've just finished translating the original text... The Holy Bible - it's a cook book!!!"

equivariant

ElectraX wrote: »

I personally think it is wrong for Atheist parents to enforce their beliefs on their child. Just as much as you don't want Catholicism being shoved down your child's throat at school, you shouldn't be doing it with Atheism at home either.
In an ideal world, every child would go to a multi denominational school, learn about morality and get a broad overview of all religions. Clearly for you OP this is unfortunately not a choice due to geographical circumstances. But you need to let your child grow up an make their own informed decision. You need to ensure they grow up understanding that what they are learning at school is different to your beliefs, but it's ok for them to ultimately choose their own faith.
I went to a staunchly Catholic school myself, from the time I was 3 to 18.I do not consider myself Catholic now,so was clearly not left scarred or brainwashed by the experience.I went to school with plenty of people who are now committed Atheists.
Your child is in pre-school, I don't understand what detrimental affect you think the religion they are learning will have on them??Alienating them from their classmates by convincing them that what they are being taught in school is wrong will have a detrimental affect though.
They will grow up being exposed to Catholicism at school, Atheism at home, Main thing is that your child should eventually understand that everyone has different beliefs and that all faiths should be respected.

Clearly you are a bit brainwashed if you really think that it is right that "all faiths should be respected". This exactly the kind of muddled thinking that our education system promotes. "Faiths" (whatever that word means) are not intrinsically deserving of "respect". They are deserving of critical analysis and scepticism, nothing more. If we taught our children how to think clearly, instead of teaching them to be subservient to some higher authority, then maybe we wouldn't have people going around saying that believing in creationism/virgin births/etc is worthy of respect. Flat earthism is not worthy of respect.

whydoibother?

equivariant wrote: »

Clearly you are a bit brainwashed if you really think that it is right that "all faiths should be respected". This exactly the kind of muddled thinking that our education system promotes. "Faiths" (whatever that word means) are not intrinsically deserving of "respect". They are deserving of critical analysis and scepticism, nothing more. If we taught our children how to think clearly, instead of teaching them to be subservient to some higher authority, then maybe we wouldn't have people going around saying that believing in creationism/virgin births/etc is worthy of respect. Flat earthism is not worthy of respect.

There are different kinds of respect. You can respect a persons right to practice a religion without actually respecting the core values of it and practicing it yourself. Of course some belief systems are dangerous and should be condemned, but most mainstream religions are not and anything that is not should be tolerated imo. People's right to practice those religions should be respected. While I might think critically about religion myself and say Religions X is not for me, I respect others' right to practice it and I won't attack them or call them stupid for thinking differently to me because that's the fastest way to generate intolerance.

oldrnwisr

whydoibother? wrote: »

Of course some belief systems are dangerous and should be condemned, but most mainstream religions are not and anything that is not should be tolerated imo.

Stupidity is dangerous no matter how popular it is.

equivariant

whydoibother? wrote: »

There are different kinds of respect. You can respect a persons right to practice a religion without actually respecting the core values of it and practicing it yourself. Of course some belief systems are dangerous and should be condemned, but most mainstream religions are not and anything that is not should be tolerated imo. People's right to practice those religions should be respected. While I might think critically about religion myself and say Religions X is not for me, I respect others' right to practice it and I won't attack them or call them stupid for thinking differently to me because that's the fastest way to generate intolerance.

Depends on what the word respect means. If the practise of religion affects other people then it should not be granted automatic respect in my opinion. I think that are few if any religions whose practise does not impact on non believers.

Morag

Mona Olsen wrote: »

Many of the teachings of the church contravene my own beliefs and moral code, and I will pass on my own views to my child as any parent does. I also teach him about diversity and try to instill tolerance and acceptance.

I have had to do the same with my two who are not christian and have/are attending the 'local' aka parish school.

Most of the intolerance we faced was from other kids tbh and most of the ignorance from teachers, it was a case of if they got new teachers at the start of the year making a point of going in and making sure they knew what the arrangements are.

Making sure that the child/ren knows that they are not catholic/christian so all that stuff about heaven, hell and sin does not apply to them. Work on a child's self confidence let them know they get to choose for themselves when they are older, so that they can stand up to questions put to them and give them age appropriate answers which wont' get them in trouble.

Mona Olsen wrote: »

Anyway, my OP was not about the rights or wrongs of a Catholic education. I merely asked for directions to a group/website/literature for like minded parents. Thanks to those that have offered same.

Alas I dont' think there is a site about raising non christian kids in a christian dominated schools system. There is the Home Education Network but they don't have to deal with other kids and the Educate together site doesn't have that remit either.

Having been through the wringer with both of mine and while over all I found the school to be good and in every other aspect I will be glad in a year and half when my youngest leaves.

Unfortunately I have found the local 'community' secondary school to be riddled with the same issues an assumptions and we are not even done with 1st year there.

ElectraX

whydoibother? wrote: »

There are different kinds of respect. You can respect a persons right to practice a religion without actually respecting the core values of it and practicing it yourself. Of course some belief systems are dangerous and should be condemned, but most mainstream religions are not and anything that is not should be tolerated imo. People's right to practice those religions should be respected. While I might think critically about religion myself and say Religions X is not for me, I respect others' right to practice it and I won't attack them or call them stupid for thinking differently to me because that's the fastest way to generate intolerance.

Well said! @equivariant- You are misinterpreting my comment. I have, like anyone else, my own personal views on different religions.I do not necessarily respect certain aspects of what Islam or Catholicism promotes but I do respect that their are people who wholly adopt these faiths and find solace in them, and their faiths should be respected, not attacked.
I doubt, being such a blatant bigot, you will be able to get your head around that though.

equivariant

ElectraX wrote: »

Well said! @equivariant- You are misinterpreting my comment. I have, like anyone else, my own personal views on different religions.I do not necessarily respect certain aspects of what Islam or Catholicism promotes but I do respect that their are people who wholly adopt these faiths and find solace in them, and their faiths should be respected, not attacked.
I doubt, being such a blatant bigot, you will be able to get your head around that though.

I like your version of respect - it makes a lot of your arguments more understandable

Yes, of course their faiths should be attacked. Just in the same way that Nazism deserves to be attacked.

Or should we just single out the aspects of Nazism that we find distasteful and then say that we respect the rest of it? After all the Hitler Youth were big into active lifestyles and neat haircuts. These are things that many people agree with and indeed find solace in, so we should respect that (some people wholly embrace Nazism) and not go round saying that Nazism was responsible for one of the worst holocausts in human history.

Dammit, this respect thing is confusing for us bigots

ElectraX

equivariant wrote: »

I like your version of respect - it makes a lot of your arguments more understandable

Yes, of course their faiths should be attacked. Just in the same way that Nazism deserves to be attacked.

Or should we just single out the aspects of Nazism that we find distasteful and then say that we respect the rest of it? After all the Hitler Youth were big into active lifestyles and neat haircuts. These are things that many people agree with and indeed find solace in, so we should respect that (some people wholly embrace Nazism) and not go round saying that Nazism was responsible for one of the worst holocausts in human history.

Dammit, this respect thing is confusing for us bigots

Errmm, are we not talking about religion in this thread?? Why are you throwing Ideology into it now, which is a completely different topic
Just for your information, Nazism was the practice of the Nazi party- I think it's fascism you meant to refer to.

Galvasean

ElectraX wrote: »

Errmm, are we not talking about religion in this thread?? Why are you throwing Ideology into it now, which is a completely different topic

Because religion has absolutely nothing to do with ideology....

ElectraX

Galvasean wrote: »

Because religion has absolutely nothing to do with ideology....

The argument up to now relates to religious faiths. There is actually a real difference between religion and ideology. Religion refers to the beliefs and rituals that fulfil peoples spiritual lives, but doesn't necessarily impact how people live their day to day life.
Ideology is a complete code, comprehensive vision of life. Marxism,Fascism etc.

Galvasean

ElectraX wrote: »

The argument up to now relates to religious faiths. There is actually a real difference between religion and ideology. Religion refers to the beliefs and rituals that fulfil peoples spiritual lives, but doesn't necessarily impact how people live their day to day life.
Ideology is a complete code, comprehensive vision of life. Marxism,Fascism etc.

What I was getting at is that by and large religious belief is no different than ideology in that it does impact impact their day to day life. In fact I would go as far as to say that if your religion does not impact your day to day life then you probably aren't practicing it properly. Unless of course you follow some benign religion that does not interfere with your day to day life. But since most religions (certainly all the mainstream ones) are concerned with doing exactly that (telling you how to lead your day to day life, what rules to follow, things you aren't supposed to do etc.).
How you don't see religion as a form of ideology baffles me....

edit: that came across as being perhaps a bit too argumentative in tone. But really, I would like to know how you don't consider a religious belief system as being like an ideology.

sdanseo

My religious experience in school was in the Catholic faith, we had classes for communion and confirmation, did it all, and leaned a few half-decent values along the way. I can honestly say looking back that my brain never really let me get roped into the whole thing. I don't think I ever full believed all the bible stories etc. I never had a problem with any of it.

Nowadays, I'm totally agnostic and borderline atheist. I believe in a higher power, a "God" of some sort but that's about it. I figured it all out for myself and school at primary level had zero effect on my ability to do that.

My point is, it's unlikely to form any major part of your kid's life past the few weeks in which he's actually preparing for it. Unless there's a huge reason not to I actually think having him go along with it, while telling him that it's simply all a bit of show and that there are some silly rules that have to be followed, might be more beneficial for him than being deliberately excluded from it - particularly if he'll be the only one. I'm not a parent, and that's important because although I have no parenting skills yet my judgement is not clouded by fear for my ickle darling - I used to deliberately sit out of all sorts of activities for various reasons and it only ever made the other kids think I was a bit odd - when in fact I was just a bit of a wuss :rolleyes:

My point I suppose is, in a nutshell - letting him go along with it might be the lesser of two evils. If he has a decent brain, he'll figure out what, if any, religious path he wants to follow for himself. He won't be prayign for hours a day and asking to be sent to a seminary to be with God by age 12. I was subjected to the Catholic malarky, and I rejected it almost entirely in time. I ignored it even in school, and rarely set foot in a church.

The above is not direct advice, simply my experience, and I feel I should contribute it. It's a theory based on my educated view and I haven't seen my suggestions in practice. Please don't take it as advice.

smokingman

Galvasean wrote: »

The daft thing is, on the subject of the census, I have told so many people who said they were ticking 'Catholic' exactly what many of the core beliefs of Catholocism were and they simply did not believe me. Said I was making it up. :rolleyes:

Just as a matter of interest, was there more than just the cannibalism that freaked them out?

oldrnwisr

ElectraX wrote: »

Well said! @equivariant- You are misinterpreting my comment. I have, like anyone else, my own personal views on different religions.I do not necessarily respect certain aspects of what Islam or Catholicism promotes but I do respect that their are people who wholly adopt these faiths and find solace in them, and their faiths should be respected, not attacked.
I doubt, being such a blatant bigot, you will be able to get your head around that though.

First off, although you have argued for it, you haven't yet provided any legitimate reason why a particular belief system or faith should be respected and not attacked.

For example, as Galvasean alluded to earlier, there is the catholic belief of transubstantiation. We know this belief to be a load of dingo's kidneys, so why should we not attack it.

Another example is the Christian prohibition on homosexuality. This has and continues to cause misery and suffering to countless people and yet the only basis for this belief is that their holy book says so. So why then should we not attack a belief as dangerous as that?

Also, I really love when religious people use the word bigot, as if it didn't only apply to them.

Galvasean

smokingman wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest, was there more than just the cannibalism that freaked them out?

For starters most 'Catholics' I know do not believe that the Pope communicates directly with God. Most of them don't believe in the virgin birth or resurrection of Christ either. I would have thought those last two things were necessary for being a christian, let alone a Catholic....

ElectraX

Galvasean wrote: »

What I was getting at is that by and large religious belief is no different than ideology in that it does impact impact their day to day life. In fact I would go as far as to say that if your religion does not impact your day to day life then you probably aren't practicing it properly. Unless of course you follow some benign religion that does not interfere with your day to day life. But since most religions (certainly all the mainstream ones) are concerned with doing exactly that (telling you how to lead your day to day life, what rules to follow, things you aren't supposed to do etc.).
How you don't see religion as a form of ideology baffles me....

edit: that came across as being perhaps a bit too argumentative in tone. But really, I would like to know how you don't consider a religious belief system as being like an ideology.

I do think that religions do of course consist of ideologies, but these do not necessarily infiltrate there ways into day to day life.However ideology isn't always concerned with religion either, hence the example of Marxism.
I do not agree when you say that if religion does not affect your day to day life, you are not practicing it properly.
People live their lives according to fundamental senses of morality that have nothing to do with religious beliefs.

Galvasean

ElectraX wrote: »

However ideology isn't always concerned with religion either, hence the example of Marxism.

I never said it was...

ElectraX wrote: »

I do think that religions do of course consist of ideologies, but these do not necessarily infiltrate there ways into day to day life.

ElectraX wrote: »

I do not agree when you say that if religion does not affect your day to day life, you are not practicing it properly.

Interesting. Could you give me an example where active practice of a mainstream religion does not affect a follower's day to day life?

ElectraX wrote: »

People live their lives according to fundamental senses of morality that have nothing to do with religious beliefs.

I agree with you on that one. You won't find many atheists disagreeing with you there.

ElectraX

oldrnwisr wrote: »

First off, although you have argued for it, you haven't yet provided any legitimate reason why a particular belief system or faith should be respected and not attacked.

For example, as Galvasean alluded to earlier, there is the catholic belief of transubstantiation. We know this belief to be a load of dingo's kidneys, so why should we not attack it.

Another example is the Christian prohibition on homosexuality. This has and continues to cause misery and suffering to countless people and yet the only basis for this belief is that their holy book says so. So why then should we not attack a belief as dangerous as that?

Also, I really love when religious people use the word bigot, as if it didn't only apply to them.

I agree that the Catholic churches view on homosexuality is a disgrace, but very few Christians support those views. I believe in God and an after life but I don't have to subscribe to all other Christian ideologies in order to do so.
Everyone can question aspects of religions without having to completely trash them and attack people with those beliefs.It is that kind of intolerance that gets people labelled bigots.

ShooterSF

ElectraX wrote: »

I agree that the Catholic churches view on homosexuality is a disgrace,

Yet we should respect those views?

oldrnwisr

ElectraX wrote: »

I believe in God and an after life but I don't have to subscribe to all other Christian ideologies in order to do so.

I never said that you did. I was merely using christian beliefs as examples of beliefs that have no rationa defence and therefore should not be protected from attack.

ElectraX wrote: »

Everyone can question aspects of religions without having to completely trash them and attack people with those beliefs.It is that kind of intolerance that gets people labelled bigots.

I disagree. There is a difference between questioning a belief and allowing a lie to be promulgated as fact and to affect people's lives. Homosexuality is a good example. There are 81 countries where it is illegal to be gay and 7 where you can be put to death. Someone who preaches that homosexuals are evil and should be put to death must be countered as strongly as possible. If that means that the belief is torn apart then so be it. Obviously the ferocity of the attack is linked to the effect of the belief but any belief that cannot stand up to reason should not be respected.

oldrnwisr

Sharrow wrote: »

Alas I dont' think there is a site about raising non christian kids in a christian dominated schools system. There is the Home Education Network but they don't have to deal with other kids and the Educate together site doesn't have that remit either.

Actually Sharrow there is. It's called Teach Don't Preach.

www.teachdontpreach.ie

It is the focal point of the Atheist Ireland secular education campaign. It has sample opt-out letters and information on making complaints although they are in the process of adding more resources for parents. It's well worth a visit.

equivariant

ElectraX wrote: »

Errmm, are we not talking about religion in this thread?? Why are you throwing Ideology into it now, which is a completely different topic
Just for your information, Nazism was the practice of the Nazi party- I think it's fascism you meant to refer to.

Analogy? You understand that, right.

Religion and ideology are clearly related concepts (not identical, but at least related). Anyway, do you actually have a point or do you just want to nitpick about whether nazism is a practise or an ideology (most people would probably say both, but whatever)?

Of course, most religious apologists don't like analogies, because once you accept an analogy then it becomes clear how absurd the special pleading of religionists really is.

Mona Olsen

oldrnwisr wrote: »

Actually Sharrow there is. It's called Teach Don't Preach.

www.teachdontpreach.ie

It is the focal point of the Atheist Ireland secular education campaign. It has sample opt-out letters and information on making complaints although they are in the process of adding more resources for parents. It's well worth a visit.

Thank you for that - I found a link to Atheist Ireland education discussion which should give me lots of info.
http://www.atheist.ie/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=41
thanks!

Nollog

To OP:
I don't think praying to a God your child doesn't believe in is something to worry about.
Or are you worried they will believe in that God?