MUX 2 launch date ?

whitebriar

Souriau wrote: »

Clermont Carn also fired up for MUX2 E56

As is Mt Leinster.

STB

whitebriar wrote: »

First -€2.50 a month is hardly crazy money.
Secondly,we are talking probably 4 sd ch's excluding Itv
Thirdly even those with satellite fta,would use it if it were there,of course they would on 2nd or 3rd tvs.
Fourthly,mux 2 will be on air anyway,so we'd be putting something useful on it rather than shopping ch's
Fifthly,it brings in a few million to allay mux 2 running costs.
Sixthly,proper pay tv on dtt in Ireland is dead in the water,it may have been a runner a decade and a half ago but multi agency faffing killed any prospect of it,bedding in Sky.

I don't understand the logic that the taxpayer would be expected to pay to have UK channels on the Saorview platform.

For a start the only reason the BBC's were being discussed was in the context of the good Friday agreement. A situation whereby we could have had a reciprocal arrangement whereby BBC NI was available in the Republic but that was shot down as whilst TG4 and RTE were willing to pay for those mux costs in NI, the BBC were not.

Also outside of the UK PSBs the stations that remain ala UTV could only ever have been on a commercial mux. Given TV3's content largely mirrors UTVs, it is in neithers interest to acknowledge either on a FTA platform. Hence no UTV on Saorview, no TV3/3e in NI.

The taxpayer will be left with enough bills to pick up from loans of commercial TV stations being written off without being asked to pay for further.

Given how long the "negotiations" have carried on to get people to pay the Mux tarriffs, I am glad that some headway has been made with regard to the 2nd mux. It is quite clear that these negotiations have fecked up the plans for the 2nd Mux.

Sam Russell

If the existence of Freesat was widely publicised by RTE, BAI, Dept of Comms, etc. and the relative savings to be got by Sky subscibers in particular, the whole question of UKTV would disappear.

The existence of BT Sport does open up a new possibility of pay-tv, but not sure how it would be delivered - probably by satellite.

Antenna

STB wrote: »

I don't understand the logic that the taxpayer would be expected to pay to have UK channels on the Saorview platform.

For a start the only reason the BBC's were being discussed was in the context of the good Friday agreement. We now have a situation whereby we could have had a reciprocal arrangement whereby BBC NI was available in the Republic but that was shot down as whilst TG4 and RTE were willing to pay for those mux costs in NI, the BBC were not.

Prior to going into coalition government with FF (and the PDs), it was Green Party policy that BBC/ITV/C4 etc would be available FTA on DTT in the Republic, in tandem with RTE etc in the north. Despite then entering a coalition government, and having a communications minister (Eamon Ryan) it did not happen. It was unrealistic, and if it didn't happen then, its not going to happen now.

This is at least partly why there was an expectation on the part of some that BBC etc could be available on Saorview, and its nonsensical to say it was due to pressure from Sky (posters on this board in the past) that this didn't happen..

STB

Sam Russell wrote: »

If the existence of Freesat was widely publicised by RTE, BAI, Dept of Comms, etc. and the relative savings to be got by Sky subscibers in particular, the whole question of UKTV would disappear.

The existence of BT Sport does open up a new possibility of pay-tv, but not sure how it would be delivered - probably by satellite.

I don't think it is in the interests of any of those organisations to publicise Freesat Sam. It has been the elephant in the room for long enough. In the meantime this is something that a Consumer organisation might do. When spot beam sats are eventually implemented for the regional variations then we are fecked, imo.

I am not sure that BT will be offering their sport packages outside a three play type service in Ireland.

Mr. Rabbit

Souriau wrote: »

Clermont Carn also fired up for MUX2 E56

Must have been for a very short time indeed.

Just done a manual scan and no services found at this location.

irishfeen

Realistically if RTÉ One HD and TG4 HD were to launch on Mux 2 before Christmas when would serious testing begin? or would there be such a thing?

whitebriar

For many years,the license was put up with no public input.
I've not said put Itv on,just the other four and €2.50 a month is nothing.I'd slap on the 30,with the sky/upc concession in a heartbeat and year later,any moaning would be gone.
Done and dusted.
Its payment for a service everyone would make use of.
Land sakes,we pay for enough services we don't ever use as it is.
That's my opinion.

Onthe3rdDay

whitebriar wrote: »

For many years,the license was put up with no public input.
I've not said put Itv on,just the other four and €2.50 a month is nothing.I'd slap on the 30,with the sky/upc concession in a heartbeat and year later,any moaning would be gone.
Done and dusted.
Its payment for a service everyone would make use of.
Land sakes,we pay for enough services we don't ever use as it is.
That's my opinion.

There are a lot of people that don't have 2.50 at the end of the month for a loaf of bread. You're looking at an increase of Almost 20 percent of the licence fee. It would never fly. People already have a problem with paying 160, so much so that anything up to 20 percent don't pay it. (I don't trust An post figures)

Onthe3rdDay

Antenna wrote: »

Prior to going into coalition government with FF (and the PDs), it was Green Party policy that BBC/ITV/C4 etc would be available FTA on DTT in the Republic, in tandem with RTE etc in the north. Despite then entering a coalition government, and having a communications minister (Eamon Ryan) it did not happen. It was unrealistic, and if it didn't happen then, its not going to happen now.

This is at least partly why there was an expectation on the part of some that BBC etc could be available on Saorview, and its nonsensical to say it was due to pressure from Sky (posters on this board in the past) that this didn't happen..

I don't think it was unrealistic at the time, some way could have been found to fund the distribution of BBC, either out of the licence fee or a government grant. The Greens dropped the ball big time. However, the moment has passed and it's now probably too late to change it. As has been said, almost everyone has BBC via other means, and it can be gotten for free with a small amount of effort.

The Cush

Antenna wrote: »

This is at least partly why there was an expectation on the part of some that BBC etc could be available on Saorview, and its nonsensical to say it was due to pressure from Sky (posters on this board in the past) that this didn't happen..

The issue of BBC on Saorview in regards to the MoU was raised in the Oireachtas a few times, basically the BBC haven't engaged with Saorview or anyone else about providing their channels on DTT here.

formerly scottish paddy

The Cush wrote: »

The issue of BBC on Saorview in regards to the MoU was raised in the Oireachtas a few times, basically the BBC haven't engaged with Saorview or anyone else about providing their channels on DTT here.

People here have to realise that the BBC is prohibited BY LAW from providing its domestic services outside the UK. If the services are picked up off air or on satellite all well and good, but the BBC cannot “provide” these services to another country. Even if there could be some sort of agreement the BBC would be forced to charge the equivalent of the UK licence fee for every viewer in Ireland or face the charge in the UK that they were subsidising viewers in Ireland (there are already people in the UK who complain on other tv forums about viewers here getting the BBC “for nothing”!) The question of BBC tv on Saorview was never going to happen. RTÉ on the other hand have a remit to provide their services “as far as practicable” to the whole island of Ireland and they therefore pay for carriage on Freeview in Northern Ireland, and it’s actually the British government that pays for TG4 on Freeview (cheaper than having to run an Irish language channel for N.I. as in Scotland and Wales!)

whitebriar

Not strictly true Scottish paddy,UPC pay the BBC,as do Sky for to carry them.
You mean terrestrial rebroadcast outside the UK is disallowed,?I'd like to see that legislation wording.
If it's the BBC charter,that's easy to insert an mou into,provided its followed up,afaik,no law change needed there?
I suspect the reason it isn't is Sky,who like to still pretend free sat doesn't exist,by advertising UK terrestrial as part of their service but leaving the tiny print saying you can get them free,down where hopefully most cannot see it...

Ronnie Raygun

What's the background to BBC on UPC & Sky in ROI? Is it just some sort of legacy arrangement from when the channels were picked up from terrestrial transmitters & relayed by the cable companies?

BBC Worldwide doesn't seem to make any provision for simply relaying broadcasts in this way.

mike65

BBC has been on cable in the Netherlands/Belgium for years and is now on DTT in the "Benelux" area.

Jpmarn

No longer receiving mux2 test signals either from maghera nor woodcock Hill.

Ronnie Raygun

mike65 wrote: »

BBC has been on cable in the Netherlands/Belgium for years and is now on DTT in the "Benelux" area.

On DTT? Which provider?

Wouldn't these arrangements have come about in a similar fashion to ROI, with BBC tv being receivable off-air in the Netherlands, certainly since Crystal Palace started?

mike65

KPN is the carrier.

Mr. Rabbit

mike65 wrote: »

BBC has been on cable in the Netherlands/Belgium for years and is now on DTT in the "Benelux" area.

There's really no need for the BBC to be on Saorview in the ROI since most of the stations available on Freeview can be received via Freesat, no matter where you live in the ROI.

The same can't be said for RTE etc.

The Cush

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

On DTT? Which provider?

Dutch DTT multiplexes - http://radio-tv-nederland.nl/dvbt/digitenne-kpntv.html

In Belgium BBC 1/2/3/4/cbbc/cbebbies/World/Entertainment are carried on various cable networks but not DTT
http://www.csa.be/pluralisme/offre/bouquet/116 VRT mux (Dutch speaking)
http://www.csa.be/pluralisme/offre/bouquet/101 RTBF mux (French speaking)

whitebriar

Interesting -So there is precedent.
On a side note,I noticed while on holiday in France recently,that most of the Dtt channels there have English as a 2nd audio channel.
We were able to watch U.S drama's and movies in their original English sound track.
Downton abbey,last series too.

Since I came home,I've set the main tv back to auto update new channels as this is something I definitely want to test out in the next lift

watty

There is no issue at all with transmission terrestrially of BBC outside UK. The BBC isn't allowed to decide to do it. A 3rd party has to get permission and pay them.

Freesat isn't as readily received in Benelux/Netherlands and they have a long tradition of paying for BBC on Cable in Netherlands. It's news to me that it's on Dutch DTT. It's certainly been on Dutch cable for a long time.

The Dutch market is different to Ireland. There is no viable way to pay for BBC on Irish DTT, especially since Freeview is as easy to get in Ireland as UK.

Ronnie Raygun

BBC tv & radio is encrypted on Digitenne. Not really any difference to our own "precedent" with UPC & Sky, just different delivery method.

I just wonder do the BBC prefer to sell content to other tv channels, rather than allow a platform operator relay BBC broadcast. Obviously the latter will only be long established in limited areas.

formerly scottish paddy

watty wrote: »

There is no issue at all with transmission terrestrially of BBC outside UK. The BBC isn't allowed to decide to do it. A 3rd party has to get permission and pay them.

Sorry, this is the point I was trying to make earlier, that some people were expecting the BBC to pay for being on Saorview, or take an active part in facilitating it. The BBC cannot become involved in providing their domestic services in another country, but as I said if someone else wants to pick up and distribute their signal then that's up to them, (although a copyright payment is involved eg. SKY, UPC) The bottom line in all these discussions is always..............who pays!

Antenna

formerly scottish paddy wrote: »

that some people were expecting the BBC to pay for being on Saorview, or take an active part in facilitating it. The BBC cannot become involved in providing their domestic services in

Well the Green Party were

have a read of this from 2010
http://www.irish-news.sceala.com/irish-news/irish-news-headlines-10169167.html

Down Green Party Councillor Cadogan Enright has welcomed the news that Communications Minister Eamon Ryan was able to reach agreement with his British counterpart Ben Bradshaw on key aspects of the digital TV future for the island of Ireland.

Councillor Cadogan Enright said: "The deal reached this week will provide free BBC and RTÉ digital TV services to households across the island, following the switchover to digital television. This will benefit hundreds of thousands of people – especially those without access to paid-for cable and satellite services." "Whether people are interested in sport, drama, history or culture, both BBC and RTÉ offer a wide range of compelling programming and I am delighted that households in Down will be able to access all of these programmes after the analogue TV signals are switched off in the years ahead."

"In recent weeks we have seen evidence of the gulf that still exists between communities within Northern Ireland. It is also clear that there is a lack of understanding between people living in the north and south of the island. So it is very much in the interest of fostering cultural understanding and development between all communities that these channels should be freely accessibly across the island. The Good Friday Agreement and St Andrews Agreement recognise the importance of the unique cultural and linguistic diversities that exist on the island of Ireland, and this will help to promote and protect those diversities."

"The Green Party first called for there to be an all-island digital 'free to air' broadcasting service carrying RTÉ and BBC channels back in 2007, before entering Government in the Republic of Ireland. It is fantastic to see this commitment becoming a reality," Cllr Enright said

"When we went into power with Fianna Fail in the Republic we made sure that included in the agreed Program for Government were cross-border issues that directly concerned us here in County Down. Issues like mobile phone charges, banking competition, public transport and targets for renewable energy on the all-Island Grid. With this latest announcement, we have successfully ticked another item off the list and it will delight many voters across South Down," he said.

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources Eamon Ryan and Ben Bradshaw, Secretary of Culture, Media and Sport signed a Memorandum of Understanding in London on Monday, 1 February 2010. This provides a framework for the changes that are taking place in Northern Ireland and Ireland to the technologies used in the reception of television services. Switchover in Northern Ireland is planned for 2012 with digital TV rollout being planned for Ireland on a similar timescale.

The Cush

Antenna wrote: »

Well the Green Party were

Obviously the BBC weren't consulted when the the MoU was being drawn up between the 2 governments, IIRC RTÉ also said something similar at the time.

Elmo

TBH I don't think the BBC would mind BBC 1 and 2 being available on Soarview, I'd suggested that the issue arose with the pay operators Sky and UPC, as they pay for BBC services on their platforms. This is what happens when you don't consult will large multinational organisations like BBC Worldwide, BSkyB and UPC.

Sheldons Brain

At least suspended anyway and made re-apply as a non terrestrial broadcaster.

Are the Saorview transmission charges so high that the marginal ad revenue does not cover them? Production costs, studios etc would be unaffected by withdrawing from Saorview.

watty

Saorview is much cheaper than Analogue, but much more expensive than Satellite. UK DTT is much much more expensive.

The MoU like much of the Good Friday was a piece of wishfull thinking & propaganda. The only bit which was ever going to be done (at a huge waste of money to Irish Licence Fee payers) was the RTE/TG4 minimux. IMO if the 45% that can't get RTE terrestrially (iif there was no Mini-mux) want it they should use Saorsat and the financially wasteful SD only Mini-mux closed.

A MoU never actually commits any Government to do anything. Also they knew perfectly well that the BBC is forbidden to fund other than BBC World Service outside UK. There was as is nowhere for the money to come from for BBC in Ireland. Many people said this at the time.

For TV3, even the reduced Saorview costs and increased coverage is a net loss. They would have more profit by only being on UPC & Satellite. This is true for all.

There are several reasons why RTE, BBC etc are on their respective Terrestrial networks and not far far cheaper Satellite only:

• Security. The Satellites are a very vulnerable single point of failure controlled by foreign companies based in foreign countries.
• Access. Satellite is more awkward and expensive to install, a lot more expensive to feed may TVs. Totally fixed receive infrastructure.
• Public Service: Only a TV plus aerial needed. A significant proportion can use internal aerials etc.
• Portability: Terrestrial network will work on portable TV in maybe 25% of situations and could be enhanced to 90% coverage.

Of course it is Comreg and Ofcom policy to abolish ALL terrestrial broadcasting (Keep satellite. Mobile & Internet only), especially TV as they are clueless about real needs of the Country and Consumer and only interested in Maximising Revenue and Mobile Operators.

Broadcast, Mobile and Fixed Broadband are three complementary technologies that will always be needed. It's only really ignorant & greedy Regulators or Civil Servants that believe otherwise.

I'm sure the BBC would happily licence BBC1 & BBC2 for Saorview if paid and someone else pays the Distribution and Transmission costs. But there isn't any one to pay. It's not strategic as it's a "foreign" service so DTT can't compete with Satellite.

Only due to the Strategic PSB element is there a Saorview at all.

mackersdublin

Any sign of Mux 2 tests from Three Rock?