John Paul Phelan FG TD (take a bow, son).

Davidian_ie

Can't see him having any problems working the system as a TD. Great to see he gained such invaluable experience in the Seanad. Can see now why he was so opposed to it being abolished, might be a cushion stuffed with taxpayer euros to fall back on. Have to also congratulate him on keeping this under wraps. No fear of him publishing these figures on his website.

Source:
http://thestory.ie/2010/06/08/seanad-salary-and-expenses-2005-to-2008/

Following on from the publication of spreadsheets containing the salaries and expenses of TDs for the 2005, 2006, 2007 to 2008, we have now put together the same for the Seanad. For the period 2005 to 2008, the Oireachtas paid out €27,177,074.19 to Senators in salaries and expenses. Here are the top 20:

Paddy Burke € 642,281.37 (Leas Chathaoirleach 2002 to present)
Pat Moylan € 545,678.73 (Cathaoirleach 2007 to present)
Terry Leyden € 523,282.73 (Address listed as Leinster House, from Roscommon)
Geraldine Feeney € 504,558.08 (Sligo)
Camillus Glynn € 502,320.99 (Westmeath)
Maurice Cummins € 501,932.80 (Waterford)
Peter Callanan € 499,885.39 (Deceased, Cork)
Michael McCarthy € 498,351.77 (Cork)
Jim Walsh € 495,986.50 (Wexford)
Paul Bradford € 494,638.65 (Cork)
Francis O’Brien € 481,749.97 (Monaghan)
Rory Kiely € 478,552.18 (Cathaoirleach of the Seanad 2002 to 2007)
Labhras O Murchu € 478,009.16 (Tipperary)
Kieran Phelan € 474,963.74 (Deceased, Laois)
Diarmuid Wilson € 473,503.87 (Cavan)
Marc MacSharry € 472,206.44 (Sligo)
John Hanafin € 469,543.68 (Tipperary)
John Paul Phelan € 442,869.87 (Kilkenny)
Joe O’Toole € 433,713.64 (Dublin)
Ann Ormonde € 427,125.03 (Dublin)

If you take the time to examine the salary charts, you will see that he almost drew the equivalent in expenses to his salary. Great little country. Ask not what the Seanad can do for you but what you can do for the Seanad.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter, let's go lynch Ming the Merciless for something trivial.

Raze_them_all

Man if only my parents didn't teach me to work for my money I might just give up my job hunt and become a politician

Cabaal

John Paul Phelan is FG right?, goes to show it doesn't matter what party you are you can claim insane amounts of money like the rest of them.

Davidian_ie

I'm just glad they were able to scrape a few euro together for some red lemonade and Tayto, to have a party to celebrate.

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/general-election-2011/huge_crowd_at_fine_gael_celebration_at_the_hub_1_2520196

Dare I ask who pays for this?

ft9

€10 per ticket to attend AFAIK...

Davidian_ie

My last political comment on the forum is; Irish politics, it's a dirty game. Fore!

http://twitpic.com/4c82pm

Cabaal

Davidian_ie wrote: »

I'm just glad they were able to scrape a few euro together for some red lemonade and Tayto, to have a party to celebrate.

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/general-election-2011/huge_crowd_at_fine_gael_celebration_at_the_hub_1_2520196

Dare I ask who pays for this?

You even have to ask? :pac:

RachaelVO

Not remotely surprised by anything anymore! You'd think I would be, but I'm not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

pueblo

Davidian_ie wrote: »

Anyway, it doesn't really matter, let's go lynch Ming the Merciless for something trivial.

Reckon he may well prove to have the one thing that eludes most politicians; integrity of both speech and action!

insight_man

Davidian_ie wrote: »

Can't see him having any problems working the system as a TD. Great to see he gained such invaluable experience in the Seanad. Can see now why he was so opposed to it being abolished, might be a cushion stuffed with taxpayer euros to fall back on. Have to also congratulate him on keeping this under wraps. No fear of him publishing these figures on his website.

Source:
http://thestory.ie/2010/06/08/seanad-salary-and-expenses-2005-to-2008/

Following on from the publication of spreadsheets containing the salaries and expenses of TDs for the 2005, 2006, 2007 to 2008, we have now put together the same for the Seanad. For the period 2005 to 2008, the Oireachtas paid out €27,177,074.19 to Senators in salaries and expenses. Here are the top 20:

Paddy Burke € 642,281.37 (Leas Chathaoirleach 2002 to present)
Pat Moylan € 545,678.73 (Cathaoirleach 2007 to present)
Terry Leyden € 523,282.73 (Address listed as Leinster House, from Roscommon)
Geraldine Feeney € 504,558.08 (Sligo)
Camillus Glynn € 502,320.99 (Westmeath)
Maurice Cummins € 501,932.80 (Waterford)
Peter Callanan € 499,885.39 (Deceased, Cork)
Michael McCarthy € 498,351.77 (Cork)
Jim Walsh € 495,986.50 (Wexford)
Paul Bradford € 494,638.65 (Cork)
Francis O’Brien € 481,749.97 (Monaghan)
Rory Kiely € 478,552.18 (Cathaoirleach of the Seanad 2002 to 2007)
Labhras O Murchu € 478,009.16 (Tipperary)
Kieran Phelan € 474,963.74 (Deceased, Laois)
Diarmuid Wilson € 473,503.87 (Cavan)
Marc MacSharry € 472,206.44 (Sligo)
John Hanafin € 469,543.68 (Tipperary)
John Paul Phelan € 442,869.87 (Kilkenny)
Joe O’Toole € 433,713.64 (Dublin)
Ann Ormonde € 427,125.03 (Dublin)

If you take the time to examine the salary charts, you will see that he almost drew the equivalent in expenses to his salary. Great little country. Ask not what the Seanad can do for you but what you can do for the Seanad.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter, let's go lynch Ming the Merciless for something trivial.

Great information well done. JP Phelan may be good around the locality but the money he got is a disgrace. Just like the rest of them. Down this neck of the woods I see Maurice Cummins got great money too another FG by the way.

The whole thing stinks.

romulus augustulus

Those figures are for expenses and salary . As I understand it , a senators basic salary is around €70k . Based on the above figures and if they include salary , JPP has received €110k each year on average. So his expenses were about €45k per year . If you look at the spreadsheet , the expenses are broken down and itemised - they're not going into his pocket but seem to be going on genuine admin. expenses .A senator need admin. back-up or else he won't be able to do his job . By all means argue for the abolition of the Seanad - it probably is a waste of money. But I don't think that you can say JPP was abusing the system .

As for his salary , what does everyone think a politician or senator should be paid ? Call me mad , but I don't think that €70k is unreasonable . Personally , I earn considerably less . However , €70k isn't an unusually high salary . For example , an experienced primary teacher can earn above €60k . Many(not all) civil and public servants earn similar amounts . Therefore , it seems to me hard to justify paying politicians a whole lot less . Incidentally , I'm not knocking teachers or civil servants or calling for pay cuts for them . I'm just saying that if you compare politicians pay to other pay levels , it doesn't seem that unreasonable , especially bearing in mind the pressures and long hours .

PhilipMarlowe

I won't call you mad but do you mind if I call you Catherine?

Davidian_ie

Nice second post Momylos but I never said he was abusing the system. I did opinion that he was working it. I have discussed this with Mr Phelan and will say that he was very open about it and also was very open regarding debating the workings of the Seanad. While we failed to agree on certain aspects, he at all times proved reasonable in our correspondence. I have resigned myself from making political comment on here but feel your post deserved a reply, as it appeared to be directed at me.

romulus augustulus

Davidian - My comment probably was directed at you !! You might may not have said that he was abusing the system , but your tone certainly suggested strong dissapproval - "working the system" is not a neutral phrase . Whether you've spoken to him or not , you were having a go at him . I don't see why JPP has been singled out as he seems to be to have "worked the system" to the same degree as a large number of public servants ( again , I'm not necessarily knocking them for this - it's genuinely hard to say what is fair pay) .

There's alot of cynicism toward politicians and claims that they're overpaid etc. I'm genuinely raising the question as to what people think is fair pay for a politician .

Btw , you mention Ming . I don't think he'll achieve alot as he's an independent , but I do respect the fact that he's pledged half his salary to local causes . I don't disrespect a politician who keeps his entire salary , but hats off to any who does hand back some .

Finally , what's does Momylos refer to ? If that's the name of another poster , you've got me confused with someone else ....honestly !

Davidian_ie

Romulus Augustus (fl. 461/463 – after 476, before 488), was the last Western Roman Emperor, reigning from 31 October 475 until 4 September 476. His deposition by Odoacer traditionally marks the end of the Western Roman Empire, the fall of ancient Rome, and the beginning of the Middle Ages in Western Europe.
He is also known by his nickname "Romulus Augustulus", though he ruled officially as Romulus Augustus. The Latin suffix -ulus is a diminutive; hence, Augustulus effectively means "Little Augustus". Some Greek writers even went so far as to corrupt his name sarcastically into "Momylos", or "little disgrace".[1]


Any politician taking wages in Ireland now is abusing their position in my book because they are now collecting the Dail Dole. Maybe the past few days events went by unnoticed for you but Ireland is now being governed by Europe. Our politicians have effectively ceded all power now to the ECB/IMF etc. They should all stand down now and stop peddling bull**** to the people. They have no power to improve the lives of ordinary people in this country.This spiel they peddle about helping the ordinary citizens is quite frankly repetitive bull****. All they are effectively doing is improving/securing the standard of living that Irish politics affords them. If you want to buy their propaganda, work away, as that is your prerogative.

romulus augustulus

Well done , Davidian , I hadn't gotten the Momylos reference . And I'll assume you knew about Momylos before you resorted to wikipedia;).

Look , I can see your point . Our politicians have made an utter mess of this country (then again we voted them in ). Many politicians are often self-serving and most promise what they must know that they can't deliver - I get your point about repetitve bull**** . I accept that the Dail has far less power than it had a generation ago . But it still has huge power . We still need politicians to decide how precisely we'll be taxed and where the cuts will fall . Europe doesn't decide which hospital will close , whether the Croke Park agreement should continue , the degree to which tax will be paid by the poor , middle or wealthier classes . Politicians will still make a difference . We need politicians if only to negotiate with our European masters . Believe me , I don't buy all their propaganda - I doubt anyone above the age of ten buys all their propaganda . But your response , with respect , is simplistic . We still need to have good people in the Dail , though I'm not necessarily saying that we have that today .

As for not paying them , I'm sure that'd be very popular with many . But think about who you'll get running for Dail Eireann , if you don't pay politicians . You'll only get the very rich running - people who can afford to sit in Dail Eireann for five years without pay because they're already loaded . We already have a Dail that many would argue is not representative of society . Your suggestion would mean a Dail staffed with the likes of Michael O'Leary and the already very wealthy .

Finally , I still don't understand why you single out JPP .He strikes me as being reasonably smart and at worst , no worse than anyone else up in the Dail , so why single him out ?

Davidian_ie

Look John, I said that I was finished with political comment in this thread and previous ones.So, I'm going to plead the 5th!

Dozen Wicked Words

romulus augustulus wrote: »

Finally , I still don't understand why you single out JPP .He strikes me as being reasonably smart and at worst , no worse than anyone else up in the Dail , so why single him out ?

Because this is a Kilkenny forum and he is the money grabber in the Senate from Kilkenny/Carlow area, perhaps if one of the others was from this area he would be the one singled out. He/you wont mind anyway, he/you will be earning more now hes hit the big time of a cash cow that is the Dail.

Davidian_ie

If you read old threads, you'll see that I have been more scathing of FF TDs. John, when you enter politics you are aware that you are answerable to the electorate. Once elected to the Dail, you are not automatically immune from scrutiny. I know tyou should be left alone to enjoy their winnings.

Interesting article for you to enjoy, from the Independent.

Gene Kerrigan: Transfer of power now truly complete
The policies imposed on the last coalition will continue into the foreseeable future, says Gene Kerrigan

Welcome to Occupied Ireland. We haven't been invaded, there was no siege, but after last Thursday I trust the governing arrangements are crystal clear?

In recent weeks it wasn't just the banks that were stress tested -- the robustness of our democratic structures were assessed. And we saw the result. We are free to vote for a government, but it's a puppet government, a Vichy regime.

The power lies with a handful of unelected EU mandarins, and the proconsuls they appoint to look after the details. The policies imposed on the late unlamented Biffo administration will continue -- protect the bondholders, protect the euro, try to make up the difference by cutting services, wages and jobs. The jargon we must use to describe our rulers has been specified: "Our External Partners".

On Thursday, our elected parliamentarians began to understand the limits of their power. They were allowed to, for instance, censure Michael Lowry -- though they had to pay the price of listening to the man whine incessantly about how that nasty Judge Moriarty just took it into his head to victimise poor Mick.

While this was happening, the economic and fiscal straitjacket to be imposed on the citizens for the foreseeable future was handed down to the new Minister for Finance, Michael Noonan. Billions of euros could be saved by telling the bondholders their gambles with Sean FitzPatrick and the like failed -- tough luck. It's what we were told during the election campaign. But Our External Partners warn us: Do that and we'll collapse the Irish state.

And Fianna Fail's Brian Lenihan, who bears huge responsibility for the condition we're in, proudly announced that Noonan's "speech was the same speech I would have delivered", and he was right. As this column pointed out before the election -- the EU/IMF/FF/Green government had run its course. And the country would henceforth be run by the EU/IMF/FG/Labour coalition, in the interests of the German, French, UK and Irish bankers.

Last week, the most frank statement about this country's plight came not from any of our Leinster House blowhards. It came from a man named Muhamed El-Erian, one of the world's foremost capitalists. We will deal presently with the thoughts of Muhamed, but let's first nail down the reality of The Occupation.

No one better to outline this than Professor Patrick Honohan, governor of the Central Bank. While agreeing that what is happening "doesn't score highly on fairness", Honohan pointed out that the Government will be able to continue a process of negotiation with the EU. In short, the elected politicians are free to petition Our External Partners to make minor adjustments to their orders.

As for the €70bn we're gifting the bankers (in reality, somewhat more than €100bn), Honohan says, that "returning to growth will make that affordable". He believes, "If our economy goes well, if we get back to growth, get to full employment, then we can pay this easily."

How soon will we reach full employment, then? Well, the document produced by the Central Bank and Our External Partners predicts that if things go spectacularly well unemployment will fall to a steady 5.8 per cent by 2020. (For that to happen, unemployment would have to be 13.4 per cent this year -- it's already 14.7 per cent). If things don't go so well, the Central Bank and Our External Partners predict that unemployment won't go down to 5.8 per cent until 2028.

So, we must continue the policy of feeding borrowed billions to the zombie banks, and cutting income and services, for the next nine years (all going well). Or the next 17 years (all going not so well).

And as things get better, we can relax the austerity, enjoy the fruits of our hard labour, right?

Eh, no. According to Professor Honohan, "the arrangements with our European partners could over time be restructured in such a way that we give them a bigger share of our prosperity and our growth."

In short, if we make huge sacrifices and we work very, very hard and somehow achieve a new, true economic boom, the benefits of that won't go into better hospitals and schools, higher wages, civilised services and a better standard of living. It will continue to go into paying off other people's gambling debts.

To protect the European banks that recklessly lent to reckless Irish banks, a generation of Irish people -- who weren't even aware this was going on -- is to be sacrificed.

And all this assumes that the policies imposed by Our External Partners will work. And that savagely deflating an economy will lead to growth. Last week, economist Paul Krugman pointed out that the Irish Government "tried to reassure markets by imposing savage austerity measures on ordinary citizens . . . Since then, the interest rate on Irish debt has doubled".

In downgrading Ireland on Friday, Standard and Poor's warned investors that "sovereign debt restructuring is a possible precondition to borrowing from the European Stability Mechanism." Translation: to continue borrowing for zombie banks, the State may have to default on its own debts.

From the start, those of us on the Left pleaded for attention to be given first to the real economy -- but the mantra continued, fix the banks, fix the banks. A jobs stimulus was out of the question -- we don't have any money (throw another ten billion into the oul banks, there, Patsy).

Muhamed El-Erian is the CEO of Pimco, one of the world's biggest bond investors. Connected to Oxford, Cambridge and Harvard, he served 15 years with the IMF and wrote a prizewinning book on economics. More relevant, he oversees investment strategies involving trillions of dollars. In short, he's no Joe Higgins.

Last week, El-Erian told Bloomberg: "The only people doing their fair share right now -- in fact I would say they're doing more than their fair share -- are the taxpayers of Ireland who are having to go through a tremendous austerity, and the IMF and the EU that are putting in money. Most of the creditors so far have not gone through any burden sharing. It is remarkable. It is inadvisable. It is a political decision that has been taken. It surprises me. I do not think you can sustain that political decision."

In the same interview, El-Erian warned of how inequality engenders social unrest. He's no radical, he believes the current policies of protecting the rich while screwing the citizens will lead to destabilised societies. And that's bad for his business.

Another Pimco executive, Andrew Bosomworth, was quoted in the Irish Independent on Thursday. "Ireland is closing kindergartens to pay senior bondholders -- ethically that is a very questionable policy." The ethics of our government and Our External Partners are being questioned by some of the most aggressive capitalists on the planet.

Our leaders are constitutionally obliged to hold a referendum to seek permission for any substantial change in the treaties governing our relationship with Our External Partners. That relationship has now, without consulting the people, become one of master and servant. A vote for change meant nothing. The Oireachtas has been blatantly sidelined. Ethics don't count for much these days, but if democracy means anything there's an irrefutable case for a referendum on the package imposed without mandate on the citizens.

Sunday Independent

Davidian_ie

Now, I just hope they leave enough money for envelopes and stamps, so John Paul can write to President Obama.

romulus augustulus

Davidian , scrutiny is perfectly fair and right . Indeed , it's a pity that we didn't all scrutinise politicians long before this - if we had , we mightn't be in the mess we're in . Gene K's article is genuinely scary and utterly depressing (and worth posting), though it's no more than most of knew already .

I still think it's important that we have good people in the Dail , I still think that we have to pay them something and I still wonder what fair pay for them would be .

@dooferoaks - I'm certainly not JPP lol ! There are 166 other td's and 4 more in carlow/kilkenny . I don't want to repeat myself , but he's making the same as many others . By tarring all politicians with the one brush i.e. "they're all money-grabbers" , this hides the fact that some are better than other , while some are true villains . JPP's getting the going rate , he's not corrupt , therefore , I don't see why he deserves abuse . Reserve that for the real crooks . And I think that constructive suggestions for reform of the Dail/Seanad would be better than engaging in mere namecalling .

That's me done on this thread - I'm pleading the fifth after this too!

Davidian_ie

Source Irish Times

RUNNING COSTS

SEANAD COSTS are approximately €23 million a year, or €115 million over the five-year term, according to the Houses of the Oireachtas.

This includes direct costs such as members’ salaries and allowances, as well as indirect costs such as staff, a proportion of Oireachtas services, such as the broadcasting and the compilation of debate records and official journals.

Based on the figures available, Senators receive an average of about €1,570 a day for each sitting day.

In addition to the annual salary of €65,621, 70 per cent of a TD’s salary, Senators qualify for allowances ranging up to a maximum of €70,000 a year as well as free secretarial assistance, phone and postal facilities.

The job is part-time and in 2009 almost half of all Senators listed other sources of income.As well as speaking in the Seanad, Senators serve on Oireachtas committees, and say they play a vital role in examining legislation and representing Ireland internationally.

In addition, they receive a “public representation allowance”, payable as an unvouched maximum sum of €9,250 or a vouched sum of €15,000. This money can be used to pay for newsletters, advertising, room hire and attendance at conferences.

Travel and accommodation allowances payable to Senators vary according to the distance they live from Leinster House. For Dublin Senators this amounts to €7,000, but the allowance can be as high as €32,850 a year for representatives living 360km or more from the capital.

Senators can also avail of free phone and postal facilities in Leinster House. They get up to €750 every 18 months to buy mobile phones.

Each of the 60 Senators is entitled to 50 per cent of a secretarial assistant, plus a secretarial allowance.

Last year, the Seanad sat for 97 days, compared to the normal working year of about 240 days. It sat for 100 days in 2009, 93 in 2008 and 64 in 2007. - PAUL CULLEN