useing an airsoft rifle/pistol in your back garden.

Southern Dandy

Weird title for a post i know but anyways. Im moving house soon and thankfully the new gaff has a large garden (I was in a flat which made my airsoft adidction quite boring with not a bean to fire at in such a small space and my girlfriend was growing quite annoyed as my growing collection was consuming the place!).

What im wondering is what is the story with the law in this situation if by chance a neighbour looks out there window and sees me with my pistols, rifle, while im plinking and then decides to ring the gardai saying theres a nut job in my estate with rather large rifles out his back. Am i allowed to shoot away out back garden of course to be carefull with the safety aspect of things without having to be worried of getting a "knock knock" on the door with blue lights flashing . All my pieces are at the legal limit or below (i think and hope).

Any info would be appreciated cheers

swiftblade

A difficult situation to really comment on. I plink occasionaly in the garden but it's surrounded by walls/trees/fences. My neighbour also is well aware of what i do.

I would say unless you can be sure it will not interfere with the neighbours property, ie stray bb's, don't do it.

From the legal point of view. Well I suppose you are on private property, but if you are in view of the public ie. the neighbour in this case, that could be ground for prosecution. TBH wait for a more experienced answer.

1man3letters

yea swiftblade got it dead on really, if there is any view where people can see you with a rifle in your hand i wouldnt do it, even though its private land if some from the public sees you,it could be trouble and im sure you dont want no blue flashing lights outside your new home, if get freindly with the neighbours and explain there just toys for big boys kinda stuff to cut out the risk of them saying something, i shoot out my back garden a fair bit but all my neighbours know what i be at and i have a fair amount of tree cover.
hope this helps:)

Southern Dandy

1man3letters wrote: »

yea swiftblade got it dead on really, if there is any view where people can see you with a rifle in your hand i wouldnt do it, even though its private land if some from the public sees you,it could be trouble and im sure you dont want no blue flashing lights outside your new home, if get freindly with the neighbours and explain there just toys for big boys kinda stuff to cut out the risk of them saying something, i shoot out my back garden a fair bit but all my neighbours know what i be at and i have a fair amount of tree cover.
hope this helps:)

Good advice by both cheers lads, there is a bit of cover like but there is a chance that i might get seen i wouldnt even dream of doing it, there would be a very low risk of a stray bb flying as its fairly well covered but still.

Firekitten

if you're in view of the public, it counts as 'in public' within reason... neighbours count. And Iirc, within 50m of a public highway its illegal. I'd be very careful about it, and check your local laws, have a chat to the gardai...

Southern Dandy

Firekitten wrote: »

if you're in view of the public, it counts as 'in public' within reason... neighbours count. And Iirc, within 50m of a public highway its illegal. I'd be very careful about it, and check your local laws, have a chat to the gardai...

Well i did notice what you would call a blind spot so to speak where im fairly sure i wouldnt be seen but i doubt ill risk it, ill give it a few more posts see what else people think, will go from there then, sound for the help

swiftblade

Has the new house a garage or shed? You could set up an indoor firing range.

Stealthirl

i Plink in the garden a fair bit and at times theres been 5/6 of us runing drills ala magpull DVDs :rolleyes:

that could mean 5x pistols,10x aeg's and 2 bolt actions in sight + guys in rigs runing about the place ect.

the gaurds called to the house 1 day and i walked out in full get up BDU,rig ect but turned out it was relateing to a housemate and unpaid parking fines or something.
Any way i decided to make shure the ARU didant turn up next time so i went to the station and told them they were just RIF ect. and explaned what we were doing
After a bit of explaning they took my name,address and contact number and asked what types they were.

I belive that going to them before someone rings them is better then trying to explain you self after

Harveey

I plink about in the backyard occasionally but I've never had any problems before my neighbour on one side know's what I do, her nephew plays airsoft so she doesn't have a problem about it as long as I make sure that if I fire out in the backgarden that no ricochets bounce into her garden and also my neighbour on the other side plays airsoft aswell, he's probably out the back plinking around more than I am I've never had anyone complain about it as I'm mainly only firing a couple of shots on single fire i.e just checking that everything's working or if I give the barrel a good cleaning to clear an excess silicone oil:)

evilrobotshane

Partly out of concern for the public space thing, partly to squeeze a little more range out of a pretty small back garden, and partly out of pure old-fashioned laziness, I generally do any shooting that needs to be done (adjusting sights, chronoing, seeing if some tweak actually works) from inside the sitting room, out the double doors looking onto the garden. It's got a carpet that's comfortable for kneeling on and furniture that's handy for leaning a gun on to steady it or to put tools. If it's an option for you it's worth considering.

Harveey

I'm sure most people within the airsoft community do it, whether it be shooting from inside to out, or being out in the back garden. Bear in mind though if you do shoot out the back, check if there are any children next door that are playing out the back next to you. Just in the case of a riccochet straying over the fence/wall. Also it might be a good idea as one of the lads suggested going to the Garda station and letting them know to save future problems if they ever knock at your door. I haven't had a problem up where I live mainly for the fact it's such a small village, everyone know's eveyone and the Garda are always driving around or walking around and they know I do airsoft locally

Southern Dandy

Sorry for getting back so latse with reply, what i was thinking is maybe shoot from inside the kitchen and out to a target in the garden, the likelyhood of being seen and slim chance of ricochets. Cheers for all the advice appreciate it.

damagegt

Im sure ull be fine.If you skirmish im sure there going to see you transferring the aegs to what ever mode of transport you use at some stage.If its worrying you alot why not call in and tell them what it is and let them know ull be plinking in the back garden.

Puding

damagegt wrote: »

Im sure ull be fine.If you skirmish im sure there going to see you transferring the aegs to what ever mode of transport you use at some stage.If its worrying you alot why not call in and tell them what it is and let them know ull be plinking in the back garden.

not really, all rifs should be in bags when transporting so people should not see them when your moving to and from your form of transport

damagegt

Do you have a bag for every rif you own?

Puding

a bag for every rif im transporting yes

TheDoc

I'm regularly mucking around the backgarden. Its a relatively highly populated estate and me firing off a GGB, AEG or Co2 pistol would easily be heard around a couple of roads, easy.

Neighbours around me know the score and there is no issues, but I never intentionally went and told them. Why bring unneccesary effort or problems? Having to explain about airsoft and all that jazz.

We have new neighbours at the house behind us and the younglad was hanging out his window shouting down at what was I playing with. Was out messing around with my new M4 and its a pretty nice and loud snap of it on semi. Had a little chat with him and then his Dad stook his head out the window and although i was freaked out a little they endedup jsut looking at me through the window and watching what i was doing and watching me blow bits out of a box.

Absolutely no big deal, put the stuff back in the shed and said goodbye, younglad regularly has a peep out the window now when I'm out back.

Whilst I understand people might be "threatened" by it, its my back garden. I'm not going to an airsoft site to test a hop up or something, and I'm not firing in a house with so much expensive eqipment around.

If you make a big deal out of it, telling everyone, its going to be a big deal. Plus the fact I wouldnt go openly tell people that you have a house full of toy guns, I wouldnt anyway, enough nackers come round my estate trying to break into gafs so I dont exactly want word out I've got an armoury in the shed, the easiest thing to break into.

I've had the guards knock at the house twice. Once was for someone from the estate beside me who reported I was firing a real gun out the back garden at rooftops. Guards came into the house and tbh yuo could see within two seconds of them walking in that they knew there was nothing serious, brought them out to the shed, they had a nosey, happy enough and they left.

Second time was something similar. That was a few years ago at this stage never had a peep since.

The last thing I would do, is go knocking around houses or going up to the Guards telling them " Hi, I just bought a load of replicas to fire out me back garden, sound yeah?"

I'd give myself two minutes before im in the back of a squad car back to my house and having all me kit taken off me for "testing". Though that is jsut my local Guarda station, but why would you go looking for hassle and trouble?

Just dont be a muppet about it and you will be fine.

TheDoc

damagegt wrote: »

Do you have a bag for every rif you own?

Not being a smartarse but like its common sense. As much as I'm very much against the PC and cotton wool world we live in, its blatantly obvious to have a gunbag to be the first purchase you make alongside your gun.

When you walk from your front door to the car, you are not carrying a rifle in your hand, thats just blatantly stupid.

Granted most sites carparks are within the site grounds so its cool to kitup from the car etc, its still good practice to always have your gun in a bag/case.

And obviously, you get a good rifle case or gunbag, so its multipurpose to fit all your guns/pistols etc

hightower1

damagegt wrote: »

Do you have a bag for every rif you own?

I doubt it but neither do I. I just have 2 full size bags but 6 RIFs but I have never needed to transport all 6 at once so I only need 2 bags. You dont need to have a bag for every RIF just enough to cover what your intending on bringing in public at any one time to keep yourself legal.

Firekitten

Yep, atleast two multipurpose bags is just good sense for an airsofter that travels. I can tote upto 4 at once, which is frankly, all I'd ever move or use at once.

One thing I did find, was if you carry a rif in a holdall, or some other bag, and someone sees it printing through the material. You are screwed. You look like you're trying to hide it.

Carry a very obvious gun bag... They presume you're meant to have it... Afterall, what terrorist would walk down the street, whistling, with his ak in a gun bag? Fit people's perceptions, and theres no hastle.

damagegt

i have a bag but i might bring 3 aegs with me to skirmish and i don't have bags for them all.I go hunting regularly .I might walk for 6/7 hours crossing public roads,passing houses now and then and I dont carry a bag/case around with me.

Its a toy gun your using not an anti-aircraft rocket.Its completely legal to to own and transport.If someone is a bigger fool in this day and age to think "I seen a guy carrying a 4"ft m60 from hes house to hes car ,he must be in the ra" and calls the cops then so what your doing nothing wrong.

Puding

he must be in the ra" and calls the cops then so what your doing nothing wrong.

im afraid technically not true, there not toys there rifs and unfortunately that brings a whole host of baggage with it, you may have so far been fine but to transport rifs as you have been is asking for trouble and to encourage such actions is unfortunately irresponsible

these are rifs, in public rifs are treated as real firearms it is the price we pay for know having an official definition in the eyes of the law, makes use safe but all adds a load of responsibility

if you want to transport 4 aegs, buy enough bags to carry 4 aegs

you may never have a problem but all it needs is for others to start doing this and next thing you have the ARU being called to an estate for example

Firekitten

damagegt wrote: »

i have a bag but i might bring 3 aegs with me to skirmish and i don't have bags for them all.I go hunting regularly .I might walk for 6/7 hours crossing public roads,passing houses now and then and I dont carry a bag/case around with me.

Its a toy gun your using not an anti-aircraft rocket.Its completely legal to to own and transport.If someone is a bigger fool in this day and age to think "I seen a guy carrying a 4"ft m60 from hes house to hes car ,he must be in the ra" and calls the cops then so what your doing nothing wrong.

a hunting rifle is not an m60

Sad fact of society today, is Terrorism is a byword. Someone sees a gun, or even a gun shaped object, they are going to flip and ring the old bill. They will come out as if its a real weapon, and you are totally screwed. Airsoft doesnt need that...

Someone seeing it, can still land you under a charge of brandishing a weapon in public. Because the public saw it.

'ah sure it will be grand' is fine in theory, but not the real world. The blasé attiude will land you in hot water, because as lovely and legal as the sport is, the majority of the real world do NOT understand or even know what airsoft is.

Plus how can they TELL its a toy?

hightower1

damagegt wrote: »

Its a toy gun your using not an anti-aircraft rocket.Its completely legal to to own and transport.If someone is a bigger fool in this day and age to think "I seen a guy carrying a 4"ft m60 from hes house to hes car ,he must be in the ra" and calls the cops then so what your doing nothing wrong.

I totally agree, I mean its a kin to a curtain twitcher seein a kid dressed as a monster at halloween and ringing the cops assuming that there is an actuall monster running loose around the estate. You use common sense and realise that what it appears to be simply cannot be the case however this is Ireland and the majorty of the population seem to have far more irrational fears / whinge tendencies rather than common sense.

While thats the case we still have to abide by the laws of the land no matter what idiot makes them up.

Firekitten

hightower1 wrote: »

I totally agree, I mean its a kin to a curtain twitcher seein a kid dressed as a monster at halloween and ringing the cops assuming that there is an actuall monster running loose around the estate. You use common sense and realise that what it appears to be simply cannot be the case however this is Ireland and the majorty of the population seem to have far more irrational fears / whinge tendencies rather than common sense.

While thats the case we still have to abide by the laws of the land no matter what idiot makes them up.

A friend had an armed response unit called out to him by a neighbour when he was hanging out of his upstairs window, working on his alarm with a battery screwdriver.

The general public does not have the logic with regards to firearms, or thier laws, to tell the difference.
It simply isnt that easy... This is thier world you play airsoft, not they live in yours.

damagegt

First off i wasn't encouraging anyone to do anything.I was just stating what I do.Kitten thats a tremble way to look at thing.The generalization that if your seen with a gun that your some kind of armed bandit out to loot people of there worldly goods it dissappering(unless you have your burberry hat tucked in to your white nike socks), now I understand that it will always be there to some extent but if some would was worried enough to call it in and they arrive and you explain that you were moving an aeg 30ft from your front door to your car Im sure they wouldn't mind.

TheDoc

damagegt wrote: »

First off i wasn't encouraging anyone to do anything.I was just stating what I do.Kitten thats a tremble way to look at thing.The generalization that if your seen with a gun that your some kind of armed bandit out to loot people of there worldly goods it dissappering(unless you have your burberry hat tucked in to your white nike socks), now I understand that it will always be there to some extent but if some would was worried enough to call it in and they arrive and you explain that you were moving an aeg 30ft from your front door to your car Im sure they wouldn't mind.

I'm finding it hard to restrain from making offensive references to what I'm reading, and Im as ANTI-PC police as they come.

But seriously, if you live in a housing estate, and strut from your car to door and vice versa, carrying an AEG on its own in your hand, I'm also confident you;ve you sleeves left on your shirt.

That is possibly the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard and to say 2 I'm doing nothing wrong" is more so.

Sorry I dont want to come across as being a dick especially if your a reltively new poster but I've done plenty of knowingly dodgy **** with my airsoft stuff in my time but I wouldn't even do this.

And I'm pretty sure if the Guards were called out to you, and you said

" A sure was just WALKING OUT OF MY HOUSE, TO MY CAR, WITH A REPLICA IN MY HAND TO PUT INTO MY BOOT" I'm pretty confident that they wouldnt think its "grand".

The difference in my scenario with the guards in my shed and your hypothetical scenario, is the guards went into a padlocked shed, then had me open a padlocked storm case, to reveal some AEG's.

damagegt

Enough said so.Each to there own I guess.

Firekitten

damagegt wrote: »

First off i wasn't encouraging anyone to do anything.I was just stating what I do.Kitten thats a tremble way to look at thing.The generalization that if your seen with a gun that your some kind of armed bandit out to loot people of there worldly goods it dissappering(unless you have your burberry hat tucked in to your white nike socks), now I understand that it will always be there to some extent but if some would was worried enough to call it in and they arrive and you explain that you were moving an aeg 30ft from your front door to your car Im sure they wouldn't mind.

I realise it sounds negative, but trust me, its actually fairly true. Terrible yes, realistic? Sadly. This isnt America, where a person walking to thier car with a weapon is normal. People see gun, people get scared. Just how it works.

As for doing nothing wrong, actually.... legally you are. its called 'brandishing a weapon in public' and they can do you for it.

TheDoc

Firekitten wrote: »

and they can do you for it.

In the bum and all

Firekitten

Knowing firearms law, they will probably take a runup too.:pac:

hightower1

Firekitten wrote: »

I realise it sounds negative, but trust me, its actually fairly true. Terrible yes, realistic? Sadly. This isnt America, where a person walking to thier car with a weapon is normal. People see gun, people get scared. Just how it works.

As for doing nothing wrong, actually.... legally you are. its called 'brandishing a weapon in public' and they can do you for it.

Over here its not listed as "brandishing a weapon" but "enciting public panic" , Irish law recognizes that it may not be a weapon being brandished but may appear to be one and as a result cause undue distress to the public. Like so much of Irish law its a grey area where the ultimate enforcement and interpritation of which lays with the garda in question.

Its really up to him or her to decide if its a realistic firearm immitation or not. Its an utter discrace tbh becuase anyone can call the garda on anyone else , claiming they are brandishing what appears to them to be a weapon in public. It could be a g&g m16 or a bananna depending on how touchy / terrefied the person calling is and then the determination of if the law has been broken is up to the garda.... Irish law is a bad joke. Its led to the Gardai having a complete god complex because so many laws are left under their individual interpritaion.

Witcher

hightower1 wrote: »

Its led to the Gardai having a complete god complex because so many laws are left under their individual interpritaion.

Jesus, I thought this thread was bad before:rolleyes:

hightower1

Blay wrote: »

Jesus, I thought this thread was bad before:rolleyes:

lol, tis true though. Like Doc I have the coppers call around too but in my case I was in work and after missed calls which obviously I couldnt answer cause I was in work thy decided to bash in my bedroom door! (I was living in a shared house at the time) Obviouly very embarressing for myself and when i got there it was prob more embarressing for them seeing as they found a toy gun! All I had at the time was a l96 which they took away for testing, it was cleared and back in a month but still... exact same situation handled completely differently simply because the cop entreprteded the law himself in each case.


In a seperate incodent I ordered x2 1911's from RSOV and customs held / tested and returned these to the gardai with clearence that they were under 1j and legal yet the gardai declined to return them! Its not like I have a criminal record or have a bad character or even known to the gadrai they simply didnt want to give them back. After lengthy calls to the station explaining what they were for and advising that even though I lived miles away and would take a day off work to come out and meet with them (which all fell on deaf ears) I eventually had to bring them to court to get them back. I did eventually get these back but these are the lengths we have to go to sometimes for our hobby. Its clear from all my experience that the gardai simpy do not like airsoft and if they dont like something they hold that in higher regard than the laws they are meant to be representive of.

Its a sad state of affairs when the laws of a land are not clear and unambigious, when the enforcers of the law are also the judges of it too.




As airsofters a situation like that effects us more so than a lot of other hobbies.

Witcher

hightower1 wrote: »

I couldnt answer cause I was in work thy decided to bash in my bedroom door!

Did they have a warrent?

It does affect all airsofters but the actions of one garda is hardly representative of the entire force.

hightower1

Blay wrote: »

Did they have a warrent?

It does affect all airsofters but the actions of one garda is hardly representative of the entire force.

Yeah the warrent was the first thing I checked.

Well in the first instace it was two gardai and a detective and in the second it was one gardai I was dealing with and a super intendent (in a different county). As the averge persons contact with the gardai goes thats quite a cross section of the force.

While I am sure there are garadi out there who are more even handed and better versed in RIF laws my personal experience with an inordinatly large cross section of the force (in context of how much contact the average joe has had with them) is that they simply act on what they like / dislike more than what is law when airsoft is concerned.

Firekitten

hightower1 wrote: »

Over here its not listed as "brandishing a weapon" but "enciting public panic" , Irish law recognizes that it may not be a weapon being brandished but may appear to be one and as a result cause undue distress to the public. Like so much of Irish law its a grey area where the ultimate enforcement and interpritation of which lays with the garda in question.

Its really up to him or her to decide if its a realistic firearm immitation or not. Its an utter discrace tbh becuase anyone can call the garda on anyone else , claiming they are brandishing what appears to them to be a weapon in public. It could be a g&g m16 or a bananna depending on how touchy / terrefied the person calling is and then the determination of if the law has been broken is up to the garda.... Irish law is a bad joke. Its led to the Gardai having a complete god complex because so many laws are left under their individual interpritaion.

I don't see how that gives them a god complex....

if its a banana and some fool reports you, its not an issue... the guardai let you off.

If its a g&g m16, they will screw you, because it IS a realistic imitation Firearm.

That sounds like a logical way to process it, we do the same here.


I really dont see the debate here. You have it exposed in public, you're going to get in trouble. Thus use a gun bag, the end... Where is the debate? Whine all you like about the law being 'evil' and the 'pigs' just trying to 'get you to bow to the man' or whatever line you wish to quote.
This was brought up because its the law. And you have two options.
Comply
or Lobby the law politically.

Either way, arguing on the internet wont help a jot, and doesnt change the fact that what he wants to do, is against the law.

gerrowadat

Firekitten wrote: »

I realise it sounds negative, but trust me, its actually fairly true. Terrible yes, realistic? Sadly. This isnt America, where a person walking to thier car with a weapon is normal. People see gun, people get scared. Just how it works.

As for doing nothing wrong, actually.... legally you are. its called 'brandishing a weapon in public' and they can do you for it.

+1 to this. Carrying an uncovered RIF in public in Ireland is a criminal offense, as of 2009. So, you are doing something that's stupid, but also happens to be illegal.

gerrowadat

hightower1 wrote: »

Over here its not listed as "brandishing a weapon" but "enciting public panic" , Irish law recognizes that it may not be a weapon being brandished but may appear to be one and as a result cause undue distress to the public. Like so much of Irish law its a grey area where the ultimate enforcement and interpritation of which lays with the garda in question.

The assault and inciting public panic was what we had up until 2009. There is now a specific firearms offence under the Criminal justice act 2009 for brandishing a RIF. That's the firearms act, as in never get a job in public service and never get into the army type offense.

hightower1

Firekitten wrote: »

I don't see how that gives them a god complex....

if its a banana and some fool reports you, its not an issue... the guardai let you off.

If its a g&g m16, they will screw you, because it IS a realistic imitation Firearm.

That sounds like a logical way to process it, we do the same here.


I really dont see the debate here. You have it exposed in public, you're going to get in trouble. Thus use a gun bag, the end... Where is the debate? Whine all you like about the law being 'evil' and the 'pigs' just trying to 'get you to bow to the man' or whatever line you wish to quote.
This was brought up because its the law. And you have two options.
Comply
or Lobby the law politically.

Either way, arguing on the internet wont help a jot, and doesnt change the fact that what he wants to do, is against the law.

Oh there is no debate, the law is indeed the law. Taking an RIF in public is breaking the law and as such shouldnt be done.

The issue comes when the RIF / public law is not clear enough in certain instances and when the enforcement of such law is handled differently from instance to instance. Its meerly an observation based on personal experience.

I never implied anyone was "a pig", they are people doing jobs just like you or me but any garda I have had contact with in relation to airsoft seems to need an attitude adjustment. - Again, not a dig at the force just my personal experience with my contact with them.

gerrowadat

Have to side with hightower on this one -- many, many aspects of Irish law are left intentionally up to discretion of individual gardai and superintendents (for example, the licensing system for airsoft sites they mention in the CJA 2009. Completely at the discretion of superintendent. No recourse or appeals).

That along with how the Gardai are one of the most secretive police forces on the planet (no exaggeration), means you really can't have an expectation of consistency when dealing with them.

Firekitten

Fair enough. My understanding isnt great, the whole trend of posts however did remind me somewhat of gripes one hears fairly regularly here. Though Considering what I've been told about, and experienced from the gardai, perhaps I shouldnt be so idealistic...

GarethQ

You should bring a few things to mind about this,
1. If you have neighbours, inform them of what you are doing, that its safe to them from where you are, how it will bo noisy.

2. I live in the country with the nearest heighbour 200m up the road, plenty of space, an idea is to get a supressor so you can make it bareable for them.

3. <snip>

Harveey

GarethQ wrote: »

<snip>

Comment's like that should not be made

Witcher

GarethQ wrote: »

I live in the country with the nearest heighbour 200m up the road, plenty of space, an idea is to get a supressor so you can make it bareable for them.

A airsoft supressor won't make a gun quieter to any major degree so I wouldn't focus on that.

Anyone looking for advice on this should just read Doc's post, the guy has it all covered with logical points.

Steve

GarethQ, that wasn't funny, please think before you post. Thanks.

Southern Dandy

Jebus that thread of mine snow balled, before i mention this im not trying to start a revolt by this comment but a system like our friends across the pond use UKARA, UKAPU would benefit greatly, no gimp could simply just walk in off the side of the street and buy an rif and you hear tales in the local papers or news bout said kid useing a rif to rob, mug, or just simply cause a stir in a houseing estate with (just useing that situation as an example not a good one but anyway).

We could raise the fps of our rifles in a skirmish (if we wanted to), have less hassle with customs, less hassle with police the list goes on, i think for airsoft to evolve as a sport in this country its the way to go but thats just me.

swiftblade

Southern Dandy wrote: »

Jebus that thread of mine snow balled, before i mention this im not trying to start a revolt by this comment but a system like our friends across the pond use UKARA, UKAPU would benefit greatly, no gimp could simply just walk in off the side of the street and buy an rif and you hear tales in the local papers or news bout said kid useing a rif to rob, mug, or just simply cause a stir in a houseing estate with (just useing that situation as an example not a good one but anyway).

We could raise the fps of our rifles in a skirmish (if we wanted to), have less hassle with customs, less hassle with police the list goes on, i think for airsoft to evolve as a sport in this country its the way to go but thats just me.

Terrible idea IMO. You have to remember there's a lot people who colect RIF's but might not necessarily play. What would they do?

At the minute it's not a problem. It's not as if airsoft is in the news every week or even month. Why change something that isn't broken.

Puding

swiftblade wrote: »

Terrible idea IMO. You have to remember there's a lot people who colect RIF's but might not necessarily play. What would they do?

At the minute it's not a problem. It's not as if airsoft is in the news every week or even month. Why change something that isn't broken.

same as they do in the uk, people forget that the system on the uk is based on having a valid defence ( e.g good reason for needed a rif ) know ukara is just one of the way to do this, there are also such programs in place for re enactors and collectors to tv and film
but that is a debate for another thread

gerrowadat

Southern Dandy wrote: »

Jebus that thread of mine snow balled, before i mention this im not trying to start a revolt by this comment but a system like our friends across the pond use UKARA, UKAPU would benefit greatly, no gimp could simply just walk in off the side of the street and buy an rif and you hear tales in the local papers or news bout said kid useing a rif to rob, mug, or just simply cause a stir in a houseing estate with (just useing that situation as an example not a good one but anyway).

We could raise the fps of our rifles in a skirmish (if we wanted to), have less hassle with customs, less hassle with police the list goes on, i think for airsoft to evolve as a sport in this country its the way to go but thats just me.

Said it before, will say it again -- UKARA is a cartel system run by a group of UK retailers who pretty effectively control who can sell RIF. They're unregulated, secretive, and they can pull access to the database to anyone at any time. Their ability to police their database is also laughable. Completely pointless, doesn't do what it's supposed to, and does more harm than good.

Lemming

gerrowadat wrote: »

Said it before, will say it again -- UKARA is a cartel system run by a group of UK retailers who pretty effectively control who can sell RIF. They're unregulated, secretive, and they can pull access to the database to anyone at any time. Their ability to police their database is also laughable. Completely pointless, doesn't do what it's supposed to, and does more harm than good.

Whilst I agree that the VCRA (this is the cause, not UKARA which is a symptom) was ill-thought out and more show-boat legislation regarding airsoft than not, its sentiment was pointing in the right direction regarding curbing anti-social behaviour involving abuse of RIFs.

The UKARA registration system is but one method of proving you are entitled to avail of the skirmisher defence within the VCRA. It should be noted that the powers that be (UK police, HMRC, etc.) have not stipulated a specific method for proving defence and UKARA put forward their method not as a means of protecting buyers, but themselves first and foremost with a benign knock-on effect for the player-base.

Yes, the UKARA reg. system is unregulated, and is partly the reason for its existence in the first place. Better that the UK airsoft community show an ability and willingness to police itself rather than have some jobsworth sitting behind a desk decide for them and invariably get it spectacularly wrong. Would anybody in the Irish airsoft community want trust a TD dictating policy? Exactly.

UKARA have, as far as I'm aware, not been secretive however in showing who their members are at any given point in time, or whether or not a member has been ejected (as has happened in the past). They are no different to any other association in that regard; including the IAA.

Next up; policing of their database. That's a pretty serious accusation to level and I'd challenge it. Memberships are held on an annual basis so you must renew it. Memberships are granted by site-referral. For example; my UKARA membership involved me playing at my local site for no less than three times in two months and then signing a form, and having them sign it to confirm along with their own authentication details. It got sent off, and I was on the system two days later with a confirmation email to boot. UKARA membership cost me nothing.

Is the UKARA registration system a pain in the ass? Sure. Has it been effective in curtailing some undesirable and antisocial behaviour? I'm sure it has, but not all. Has it covered my @rse when selling my BAR? Yes I can point to the buyer's credentials if the police come knocking. After all anyone over the age of eighteen can buy a two-tone RIF and spray-paint it, but that avoids the question of "why buy airsoft when you can get the real deal for the same price if not less on the black market?"

The UKARA scheme is no different in terms of being a cartel as the proposed Irish system whereby all importation is restricted to retailers only. The only difference being that the player is at the mercy of the retailer with the Irish system, and has no choice in that regard. Despite its flaws, UKARA does give the player a choice with the onus on the player to make the effort to get registered (which isn't much all things considered). It also makes dealing with HMRC considerably less hassle than their Irish counterparts where it's a totally inconsistent and haphazard experience.