TV3 TONIGHT - The Truth about Irish Bloodsports.

Discodog

10pm TV3
The Truth About Irish Bloodsports - from TV3 website
(Documentary)
"In this eye-opening TV3 documentary, presenter Henry McKean ventures into the world of blood sports, meeting the people involved in hare coursing, a long held rural tradition. He discovers whether this sport is cruel or not when he visits a coursing club in North Kerry. He also joins the other side as he meets animal welfare protestors demonstrating outside a coursing club. Henry also looks at foxhunting, another contentious sport. He joins the Laois hunt as they head out to hunt a fox. Along the route he speaks to mounted riders about their love of this ancient tradition."




It seems like a bad title - the truth according to who ?.

mosi

It's looking as though it should be called The Propaganda about Irish Bloosports if this article by the presenter is anything to go by

http://www.herald.ie/opinion/henry-mckean-banning-bloodsports-here-is-no-simple-matter-this-ive-learned-2589286.html

He trots out the usual old claptrap about hunting and coursing being traditions and thus justified. He also describes those against it as being "hardline vegetarians" with hidden agendas. AND he speaks of the economic "benefits" of the greyhound industry :mad:

Still, will give it a watch to see how far they go with this propaganda before I have a proper rant!

Discodog

Yep he was spouting the same on Newstalk today. I tend to find his reporting to be incredibly low key & so laid back that it seems like he can't be bothered.

Whispered

"I think he enjoys it"

"what abooot the poor hen, when the fox carries the poor hen"

"A fox never feels sorry for you"

" a fox is an animal, I don't think it really has a brain"

(last quote may have been misheard)

I suppose if you consider yourself on a par with a wild animal they are perfectly reasonable statements. :rolleyes:

jimthemental

Why has no one from the ICC talked yet ffs, he's getting to give all his time to the anti blood sporters and it looks like coursers wont talk

Discodog

There were constant references about the control of foxes but they only kill the old or weak & most times they don't kill at all. Rats & Rabbits would be wiped out if hunting was banned :rolleyes:.

Loads of references to people in the city not understanding. So if you live in a city you cannot understand cruelty.

Amazing how the Coursers refused entry. Then on another date we are allowed to see the "Hare Farm" - what was going on that they didn't want filmed ?

No mention of Hound or Greyhound welfare. He didn't once ask about what happens to unwanted dogs.

Foxes do not have a brain. Fox thinks that it is a game.

The huntsman carried the camera so could of filmed anything.

Hares are never stressed & the Kerry Vet has been supervising for 20 years. He says it was a good meet with no injuries. He is not asked about bad meets.

Apparently every second house in North Kerry keeps Greyhounds.

Gormley says that he has no problem with shooting & fishing yet RISE say that he wants them banned.

Lots of talk of bringing communities together & bloodsports being the Heart & Soul of the Country :rolleyes:

Nollipop

The presenter was talking on the radio today and saying that he was more inclined to be on the side of the coursers and hunters after making the programme.

Oh, and that he saw no problem with sending greyhounds to China... Idiot.

The programme was so biased towards giving pro-hunt people more airtime, that's no suprise. Did he even spend ANY time with anti-bloodsport protesters, apart from one day with ARAN and talking to Gormley?!!

It made me really angry, watching that twaddle.

Discodog

Yes he could of investigated the cost of Coursing & racing by visiting the rescues that have to pick up the pieces.

But the sad fact is that ARAN are one of only a couple of groups prepared to protest.

Minky 123

Well it told you the truth about bloodsports did'nt it? The fact that hare coarsing is a well regulated and orgainised sport which is a important part of rural society. There are more neglected dogs in pounds been put down every week than foxes killed in hunts. The facts speak for themselves......

Cherry Blossom

I didn't realise neglected dogs were mentioned in it, I must have missed that part. How is a wild animal being torn apart by foxhounds equal in anyway at all to dogs in pounds being pts'd? In what ways exactly is live hare courseing better than using a drag as a matter of interest? I found it as factual and informative as a documentry on quantum physics would be if it were made by Walt Disney.

Discodog

Minky 123 wrote: »

Well it told you the truth about bloodsports did'nt it? The fact that hare coarsing is a well regulated and orgainised sport which is a important part of rural society. There are more neglected dogs in pounds been put down every week than foxes killed in hunts. The facts speak for themselves......

If he wanted to tell the truth he would of attempted to get an opposing view to the huge number of so called facts that were spouted by the hunting lobby. For example he allowed the Coursers to go unchallenged regarding Hare welfare. He allowed the Fox hunters to say that hunting controlled number when research shows that it doesn't. Where were the experts who oppose hunting ?. They were allowed to say ridiculous things like the Fox thinks that it's a game & does not possess a brain without being challenged.

The aspect that was well controlled was the threatening refusal to allow the camera in & the way that fences were erected to hide the Coursing field. If it is all above board then why hide it ?. They were well organised in that the ICC realised that this was a PR disaster & agreed to allow filming at another site, once they were sure that nothing unsavoury would be on view.

I have always lived in the countryside & it's not part of my society.

seamus

As was perfectly obvious from his series on Travellers, his documentary style is nothing resembling, "The truth about" anything. Instead it should be entitled, "The good things about Irish Bloodsports/Travellers (while completely ignoring the major negatives)".

Henry McKean is liked because of his funny accent and his bumbling innocent facade. But he's trying to act like he's an Irish Louis Theroux when in fact it's obvious he will only do documentaries about "controversial" things if he doesn't have to be negative about them and risk getting into trouble.

Discodog

seamus wrote: »

As was perfectly obvious from his series on Travellers, his documentary style is nothing resembling, "The truth about" anything. Instead it should be entitled, "The good things about Irish Bloodsports/Travellers (while completely ignoring the major negatives)".

Henry McKean is liked because of his funny accent and his bumbling innocent facade. But he's trying to act like he's an Irish Louis Theroux when in fact it's obvious he will only do documentaries about "controversial" things if he doesn't have to be negative about them and risk getting into trouble.

Absolutely. The Coursers refusal to let him in would of been seized on by a real investigative journalist. Where's Donal McIntyre when we need him ?. Was he scared to look further or was it that he wanted the co-operation of the ICC ?.

TV programming is supposed to be balanced & this clearly was not. Given this & the totally misleading title it warrants an official complaint.

ThunderCat

To echo what posters have already said, the programme last night was very one sided and infuriating to watch.

The remarks that some of the fox hunters were coming out with were crazy. "the fox thinks its a game", "the fox doesnt feel sorry for you", "I don't think he has a brain". Laughable part about it was the presenter accepted these ridiculous statements and didnt challenge them yet the first thing he said to the protester was something along the lines of was he worried about being portrayed as an animal loving hippy. Since when do you have to be a hippy to have an opinion on animal cruelty. And it's complete rubbish what they were saying about "city" people not understanding hunting and the big part it plays in the lives of county people. And the comment about hunting keeping fox numbers in check is a very loose one aswell as every ecosystem has an apex predator which is what the fox is in this country when not hunted. Their numbers would naturally be kept in check by the availabilty of its prey. Their numbers wouldnt spiral out of control with the ban on hunting as any increase in fox polulation would also result in an increase in fox mortality due to competition for food.

It was sad to see the young children at the hunts no doubt also being told that the fox thinks its a game and has no brain. They will grow up with these same notions about keeping the "tradition" alive.

Discodog

The facts are that those opposed to hunting got a grand total of 8 minutes out of a one hour program. Yes I have had to go back through the recording to time it as part of my complaint.

From the Broadcasting Complaints Commission website:

"In its broadcast treatment of current affairs, including matters which are either of public controversy or the subject of current public debate, it is fair to all interests concerned and that the broadcast matter is presented in an objective and impartial manner and without any expression of the broadcasters own views (two or more related broadcasts may be considered as a whole, if the broadcasts are transmitted within a reasonable period of time)."

8 mins out of 60 is hardly fair.

Minky 123

ThunderCat wrote: »

any increase in fox polulation would also result in an increase in fox mortality due to competition for food.

What type of food do you think the foxes will start competing for when they deplete there natural supply of rabbits/rats. If you ever do get the privilge of living in the countryside you would soon realise how important it is to keep the fox population under control as you would see it first hand. (lambs been taken alone would wipe out every sheep farmers profit margin so if you think of the lost revenue you would have to say it also makes economical sense to control fox)

ISDW

Minky 123 wrote: »

ThunderCat wrote: »

any increase in fox polulation would also result in an increase in fox mortality due to competition for food.

What type of food do you think the foxes will start competing for when they deplete there natural supply of rabbits/rats. If you ever do get the privilge of living in the countryside you would soon realise how important it is to keep the fox population under control as you would see it first hand. (lambs been taken alone would wipe out every sheep farmers profit margin so if you think of the lost revenue you would have to say it also makes economical sense to control fox)

How on earth do you know where ThunderCat lives? What an amazingly arrogant assumption to make, that they don't live in the country and so don't understand. I live in the country, a very, very rural area and I'm totally opposed to fox hunting. I was brought up in the countryside, and I went to watch a hunt start off a few times when I was a child, as I was a bit horse mad, then I formed my own opinion of it, and became opposed to it.

Discodog

Minky 123 wrote: »

ThunderCat wrote: »

any increase in fox polulation would also result in an increase in fox mortality due to competition for food.

What type of food do you think the foxes will start competing for when they deplete there natural supply of rabbits/rats. If you ever do get the privilge of living in the countryside you would soon realise how important it is to keep the fox population under control as you would see it first hand. (lambs been taken alone would wipe out every sheep farmers profit margin so if you think of the lost revenue you would have to say it also makes economical sense to control fox)

The old patronising "you can't have an opinion because you don't live in the countryside argument".

The hunters stated, in the program, that only the sick & old foxes are killed & that many hunts end without killing a fox. Hunts do not have any effect on population. The healthy foxes carry on breeding.

Jim

Minky 123 wrote: »

ThunderCat wrote: »

any increase in fox polulation would also result in an increase in fox mortality due to competition for food.

What type of food do you think the foxes will start competing for when they deplete there natural supply of rabbits/rats. If you ever do get the privilge of living in the countryside you would soon realise how important it is to keep the fox population under control as you would see it first hand. (lambs been taken alone would wipe out every sheep farmers profit margin so if you think of the lost revenue you would have to say it also makes economical sense to control fox)

Even if this were true it doesn't change the fact that these hunts take place not out of necessity to protect local wildlife and keep a balance but rather for recreation and pleasure.

I find it pretty repulisve that people can take pleasure from chasing down a terrified animal and killing it for sport.

The Big Fella

ThunderCat wrote: »

To echo what posters have already said, the programme last night was very one sided and infuriating to watch.

The remarks that some of the fox hunters were coming out with were crazy. "the fox thinks its a game", "the fox doesnt feel sorry for you", "I don't think he has a brain". Laughable part about it was the presenter accepted these ridiculous statements and didnt challenge them yet the first thing he said to the protester was something along the lines of was he worried about being portrayed as an animal loving hippy. Since when do you have to be a hippy to have an opinion on animal cruelty. And it's complete rubbish what they were saying about "city" people not understanding hunting and the big part it plays in the lives of county people. And the comment about hunting keeping fox numbers in check is a very loose one aswell as every ecosystem has an apex predator which is what the fox is in this country when not hunted. Their numbers would naturally be kept in check by the availabilty of its prey. Their numbers wouldnt spiral out of control with the ban on hunting as any increase in fox polulation would also result in an increase in fox mortality due to competition for food.

It was sad to see the young children at the hunts no doubt also being told that the fox thinks its a game and has no brain. They will grow up with these same notions about keeping the "tradition" alive.

Minky 123 wrote: »

ThunderCat wrote: »

any increase in fox polulation would also result in an increase in fox mortality due to competition for food.

What type of food do you think the foxes will start competing for when they deplete there natural supply of rabbits/rats. If you ever do get the privilge of living in the countryside you would soon realise how important it is to keep the fox population under control as you would see it first hand. (lambs been taken alone would wipe out every sheep farmers profit margin so if you think of the lost revenue you would have to say it also makes economical sense to control fox)

Minky is just as intitled to his opinion as you to yours. Some debates are never ending..........

Discodog

The Big Fella wrote: »

Minky 123 wrote: »

Minky is just as intitled to his opinion as you to yours. Some debates are never ending..........

Yes but his opinions are being expressed on a forum where they are open to challenge. Some of his opinions appear to be stated as facts when there may well be other evidence that strongly contradicts this.

How many hectares of Ireland are hunted compared to the whole ?. Then add in the fact that hunting times are restricted, the hunt often gets nothing & they only get foxes that may well of died from old age/ill heath.

Anyone can see that hunting has no effect on the fox population of Ireland. It's a no win argument. If the hunters claim to get lots of foxes they appear to be threatening the population & if they claim to kill hardly any they destroy the control argument.

ISDW

The Big Fella wrote: »

Minky 123 wrote: »

Minky is just as intitled to his opinion as you to yours. Some debates are never ending..........

Definitely, but maybe without the assumptions that anyone who is opposed to blood sports lives in cities and doesn't understand.

Cherry Blossom

Minky 123 wrote: »

...

Instead of answering the questions I posted on your first comment in this thread you decided to ignore them and post another load of factually incorrect information, your arguements are null and void.

<ETA>
And just before you start with the 'townie' spiel I have lived in the most rural part of Ireland my whole life except for 2 years. I also know a lot of people who fox-hunt, all of them are 'townies' and shock horror a fair few of them even live in Dublin city.

ThunderCat

Minky 123 wrote: »

What type of food do you think the foxes will start competing for when they deplete there natural supply of rabbits/rats. If you ever do get the privilge of living in the countryside you would soon realise how important it is to keep the fox population under control as you would see it first hand. (lambs been taken alone would wipe out every sheep farmers profit margin so if you think of the lost revenue you would have to say it also makes economical sense to control fox)

Thanks for the reply Minky. I wont go into where I live as it's not relevant but just in answer to your point, the natural supply of rats and rabbits will never be depleted due to the fact that foxes only reproduce once a year with a typical litter size of between 4-6 and dont reach sexual maturity until around one year of age. Rats and rabbits on the other hand reach sexual maturity in a matter of weeks rather than months or years and can be born, reproduce and have their young also reproduce all within the same year. Furthermore litter sizes in rabbits increase in areas where higher rabbit mortality rates exist. Same can be seen with birds and the way they produce more young the spring following a harsh winter in order to increase the lost polulation. Another point is that foxes naturally dont have a very long lifespan anyway.

Furthermore one of the other posters made a very valid point about the foxes range within the country and how much of it's range is actually hunted by fox hunting groups, which of course is miniscule number of acres/miles whatever you want to call it on the grand scheme of things. Factor in the fact its not done on a daily basis and not always sucessfull and the argument that fox hunting is controlling fox numbers is soon proven to be way off the mark.

kildare.17hmr

i think its about time a programe was made about these sports that didnt begine with an "anti" agenda. the guy went in knowing little r nothing about them and made his own opinion. had he have acted in the same way and been more so against the hunting and coursing most of you would be probably praising him and saying he did a great job. there was an invitation put out for people to go along and see what they are all about, they are normal people enjoying each others company and sharing a common interest.

i cringed when that fella said the fox had no brain:rolleyes:

Jim

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

i cringed when that fella said the fox had no brain:rolleyes:

Did a hunter in the program actually say that as a serious argument for hunting?

kildare.17hmr

Jim wrote: »

Did a hunter in the program actually say that as a serious argument for hunting?

he was on a bit of a rant and id say he was nervous but yeah thats what he said

Discodog

"People in the City have a totally wrong outlook on Country life"

"A fox is an animal it doesn't really have a brain."

Both comments from the same Hunter. They didn't give his name unlike most of the contributors.

Discodog

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

he was on a bit of a rant and id say he was nervous but yeah thats what he said

Sorry I just watched that bit again & he is totally calm & it wasn't a rant. By his other comments he would appear to be an active member. He made a general spiel about how good it is to get the children out on their horses etc.

SophieSakura

I'm from the country and I don't like animals being killed at all

kildare.17hmr

was half watchin that part and rewound it to make sure i heard him properly but i i thought he was on a rant