TV3 TONIGHT - The Truth about Irish Bloodsports.

Discodog

Well it's here for all to see & judge:

https://tv3.ie/shows.php?request=thetruthabout

kildare.17hmr

i said i was only half watchin that bit i didnt say you were wrong:rolleyes:

Whispered

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

was half watchin that part and rewound it to make sure i heard him properly

I did the same. I thought "he couldn't have just tried to use that as any sort of argument"

TBH spokesmen like that do nothing for the credibility of the hunt. I appreciate people are entitled to their opinions but statements like that and "a fox doesn't feel sorry for you" really just tarnish any sort of argument a huntsman may have in my opinion

gozunda

Watched the documentary and tbh I found that was good in that it covered a broad range of issues.

It generaly potrayed coursing and mounted fox hunting as what it is - a rural activity with many adherents and supporters coming from many backgrounds and interests.

There was the use of a bit to much cliches - fox hunting people were "posh" and Anti hunting people were "hippies" :rolleyes:

That said I though Gormless speach on the steps of the Dail took the biscuit. it went along the lines of...

"I have no problem with fishing or shooting but I dont like foxhunting or coursing"...for xchrisakes Gormely - at least try and be consistant ."

Whispered

gozunda wrote: »

"I have no problem with fishing or shooting but I dont like foxhunting or coursing"...for xchrisakes Gormely - at least try and be consistant ."

Honestly though, I can understand where he gets that from.

Fishing usually involves food at the end (I don't agree with fishing for things which wont be eaten myself) and I'd be happy enough to see that happen. Certainly better than buying fish in a supermarket imo.

Shooting can be seen as necessary to control populations.

Foxhunting and coursing seems to be cruelty for the sake of fun.

So while you think it's a bit inconsistent, I think it's a commonly held view. But yes too many clichés. I'm not a hippie at all

gozunda

Whispered wrote: »

Honestly though, I can understand where he gets that from.

Fishing usually involves food at the end (I don't agree with fishing for things which wont be eaten myself) and I'd be happy enough to see that happen. Certainly better than buying fish in a supermarket imo.

Shooting can be seen as necessary to control populations.

Foxhunting and coursing seems to be cruelty for the sake of fun.

So while you think it's a bit inconsistent, I think it's a commonly held view. But yes too many clichés. I'm not a hippie at all

but I like hippies No seriouslythough, recreational fishing (ie catch & release") could soon face huge restrictions or even banning if EU new proposed regulations are brought in. There is a massive move against this type of fishing due to a number of studies carried out in recent years.

The problem I have with shooting is that unless the shooter is highly skilled shooting something as small as a fox at the normal distance often involves a misshot. Foxes killed by hounds die quickly. They do not crawl away and endure a lingering death.

That said shooting has its place where carried out correctly.

Fox Hunting is not and has never been about eradicating foxes or large-scale population control or fun - hunts hunt to cull sick, old and "problematic foxes" such as ones preying on livestock

Discodog

gozunda wrote: »

but I like hippies No seriouslythough, recreational fishing (ie catch & release") could soon face huge restrictions or even banning if EU new proposed regulations are brought in. There is a massive move against this type of fishing due to a number of studies carried out in recent years.

I read that the revised quota system will not effect recreational Angling in any way so can you provide a link ?.

gozunda wrote: »

Foxes killed by hounds die quickly. They do not crawl away and endure a lingering death.

Even if the death is quick the events leading up to it can last for hours whilst the fox is chased. So it's not really a quick death.

gozunda wrote: »

Fox Hunting is not and has never been about eradicating foxes or large-scale population control or fun - hunts hunt to cull sick, old and "problematic foxes" such as ones preying on livestock

Hunters claim that fox hunting is essential for control. Several hunters state this in the program. Hunts don't cull. They are not trying to weed out the weakest to improve the population. They kill some foxes on their hunting area which is tiny & within a very short time other foxes will move in. If they only kill sick & old foxes then it makes hunting even less justifiable.

Itsdacraic

Discodog wrote: »

The aspect that was well controlled was the threatening refusal to allow the camera in & the way that fences were erected to hide the Coursing field. If it is all above board then why hide it ?. They were well organised in that the ICC realised that this was a PR disaster & agreed to allow filming at another site, once they were sure that nothing unsavoury would be on view.

I have always lived in the countryside & it's not part of my society.

The reason he wasn't given admission to Edenderry is because the organisers had seen him with the anti's and assumed he was filming on behalf of them. These are the same anti's that put broken glass all over the coursing field there a few years ago, so they can easily be excused for not wanting them (or someone they thought was associated with them) within the venue. Edenderry have a particular problem with militant animal rights activists so their field is more enclosed.

Galway K9

Discodog wrote: »

Yep he was spouting the same on Newstalk today. I tend to find his reporting to be incredibly low key & so laid back that it seems like he can't be bothered.

Because hes not i recon.

gozunda

Discodog wrote: »

I read that the revised quota system will not effect recreational Angling in any way so can you provide a link ?.

Nothing to do with quota system ...follows from ban of Catch & release in Switzerland and EU studies
Check out: http://fishing.about.com/od/fishingonthebank/a/Swiss_Catch.htm

http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/scdocs/doc/ahaw_op_ej954_generalfishwelfare_en.pdf

Discodog wrote: »

Even if the death is quick the events leading up to it can last for hours whilst the fox is chased. So it's not really a quick death.

On a hunt the average "run" for any individual fox is between 15-30 minutes not "hours". A hunt may last some hours but a lot of this time is spent navigating roads, ditches and waiting around for the hounds to find.

Discodog wrote: »

Hunters claim that fox hunting is essential for control. Several hunters state this in the program. Hunts don't cull. They are not trying to weed out the weakest to improve the population. They kill some foxes on their hunting area which is tiny & within a very short time other foxes will move in. If they only kill sick & old foxes then it makes hunting even less justifiable.

This is an misunderstanding of what is meant by "control". Fox Hunting is not and has never been about eradicating foxes or large-scale population control - hunts hunt to cull sick, old and "problematic foxes" such as ones preying on livestock. This is the form of control that is refered to.

A young healthy fox will outrun and "outfox" hounds on nearly every occasion. This is how sick and old individuals are sucessfully hunted - these are the foxes that cause the most predation in domestic animals as they are less capable of fending for themselves hunting wild prey.

Discodog

gozunda wrote: »

Nothing to do with quota system ...follows from ban of Catch & release in Switzerland and EU studies
Check out: http://fishing.about.com/od/fishingonthebank/a/Swiss_Catch.htm

http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/scdocs/doc/ahaw_op_ej954_generalfishwelfare_en.pdf



On a hunt the average "run" for any individual fox is between 15-30 minutes not "hours". A hunt may last some hours but a lot of this time is spent navigating roads, ditches and waiting around for the hounds to find.



This is an misunderstanding of what is meant by "control". Fox Hunting is not and has never been about eradicating foxes or large-scale population control - hunts hunt to cull sick, old and "problematic foxes" such as ones preying on livestock. This is the form of control that is refered to.

A young healthy fox will outrun and "outfox" hounds on nearly every occasion. This is how sick and old individuals are sucessfully hunted - these are the foxes that cause the most predation in domestic animals as they are less capable of fending for themselves hunting wild prey. Selective culling of foxes means that a more healthy population is maintained

Thanks for the link. I have answered the rest of your post via the duplicate that you posted in the Hunting Ban thread. Needless to say I totally disagree with you.

gozunda

Discodog wrote: »

Thanks for the link. I have answered the rest of your post via the duplicate that you posted in the Hunting Ban thread. Needless to say I totally disagree with you.

No problem You are welcome. This is not a duplicate post. Refered to TV3 Programme here - and then gave facts based on queries posted. Facts dont change! No problem with held opinion though.

Discodog

Itsdacraic wrote: »

The reason he wasn't given admission to Edenderry is because the organisers had seen him with the anti's and assumed he was filming on behalf of them. These are the same anti's that put broken glass all over the coursing field there a few years ago, so they can easily be excused for not wanting them (or someone they thought was associated with them) within the venue. Edenderry have a particular problem with militant animal rights activists so their field is more enclosed.

So they didn't recognise him or TV3 :rolleyes:. They will of seen the crew outside. They knew who it was & he made it clear that he was not anti-hunting. If they had let him in they could of explained about their problems with the protesters. The reality is they could not let him in because there were things that they didn't want seen & they didn't have ICC clearance.

They could make the field secure without all the polythene screening to hide what's going on, if they had nothing to hide.

So you are publicly accusing ARAN of spreading broken glass ?.

Galway K9

Discodog wrote: »

So they didn't recognise him or TV3 :rolleyes:. They will of seen the crew outside. They knew who it was & he made it clear that he was not anti-hunting. If they had let him in they could of explained about their problems with the protesters. The reality is they could not let him in because there were things that they didn't want seen & they didn't have ICC clearance.

They could make the field secure without all the polythene screening to hide what's going on, if they had nothing to hide.

So you are publicly accusing ARAN of spreading broken glass ?.

Disco what's ICC? some sort of regulatory body for foxes im persuming?

Whispered

Galway K9 wrote: »

Disco what's ICC? some sort of regulatory body for foxes im persuming?

I think it's Irish Coursing Club

Itsdacraic

Discodog wrote: »

So they didn't recognise him or TV3 :rolleyes:. They will of seen the crew outside. They knew who it was & he made it clear that he was not anti-hunting. If they had let him in they could of explained about their problems with the protesters. The reality is they could not let him in because there were things that they didn't want seen & they didn't have ICC clearance.

They could make the field secure without all the polythene screening to hide what's going on, if they had nothing to hide.

So you are publicly accusing ARAN of spreading broken glass ?.

You might be so kind as to point where I accused ARAN of anything?

Discodog

Itsdacraic wrote: »

The reason he wasn't given admission to Edenderry is because the organisers had seen him with the anti's and assumed he was filming on behalf of them. These are the same anti's that put broken glass all over the coursing field there a few years ago, so they can easily be excused for not wanting them (or someone they thought was associated with them) within the venue. Edenderry have a particular problem with militant animal rights activists so their field is more enclosed.

The only "anti's" shown in the film were ARAN.

Itsdacraic

Discodog wrote: »

The only "anti's" shown in the film were ARAN.

I was using anti's in the general sense.

It's been a bad few months for the anti's.
First their political party was essentially wiped out, and now the myths and lies they try to spread about coursing have been exposed on national television.

willielovesall

Hi I'm a fox and I love being chased by a pack of hounds who are threatening to tear my body apart with their razor sharp teeth. Oh, the shrill barks of the hounds crashing the air around me send thrills throughout my body. I love when you hunters dig up my tunnel and shoot all my cubs. I love being terrified and confused with the fact that dogs and hunters are killing me for no reason but for fun. Sure I think its hilarious being shot at and chased through ditches and wide fields. Sure at the end of the day who am i? I'm just a fox that tried to eek out a living in this cruel world and deserved to die! Why did I deserve to be hunted and murdered? don't ask me I don't know!!:rolleyes:sure its only a bit of craic;)

gozunda

willielovesall wrote: »

Hi I'm a fox and I love being chased by a pack of hounds who are threatening to tear my body apart with their razor sharp teeth. Oh, the shrill barks of the hounds crashing the air around me send thrills throughout my body. I love when you hunters dig up my tunnel and shoot all my cubs. I love being terrified and confused with the fact that dogs and hunters are killing me for no reason but for fun. Sure I think its hilarious being shot at and chased through ditches and wide fields. Sure at the end of the day who am i? I'm just a fox that tried to eek out a living in this cruel world and deserved to die! Why did I deserve to be hunted and murdered? don't ask me I don't know!!:rolleyes:sure its only a bit of craic;)

Wow - a fox with a computer and internet access!

Minky 123

Itsdacraic wrote: »

I was using anti's in the general sense.

It's been a bad few months for the anti's.
First their political party was essentially wiped out, and now the myths and lies they try to spread about coursing have been exposed on national television.

Very true indeed Itsdacraic, the antis were shown up on national telivision for what the truely are. Nearly everything they said about the hair coursing was proved wrong.

Cherry Blossom

They wern't asked anything about hare coursing iirc, they were asked stupid fluffy questions like are you a hippy, so do you like animals - wtf?!?

Can you post a list of these things they said that were proved wrong and provide sources to credible sources that have done research on it? If you can't back up any of the rubbish you are posting, then don't post it, you aren't doing the 'side' any favours by doing so.

Minky 123

willielovesall wrote: »

Hi I'm a fox and I love being chased by a pack of hounds who are threatening to tear my body apart with their razor sharp teeth. Oh, the shrill barks of the hounds crashing the air around me send thrills throughout my body. I love when you hunters dig up my tunnel and shoot all my cubs. I love being terrified and confused with the fact that dogs and hunters are killing me for no reason but for fun. Sure I think its hilarious being shot at and chased through ditches and wide fields. Sure at the end of the day who am i? I'm just a fox that tried to eek out a living in this cruel world and deserved to die! Why did I deserve to be hunted and murdered? don't ask me I don't know!!:rolleyes:sure its only a bit of craic;)

That sounds very deluded to me, can we get one thing straight here a fox is hunted as part of vermin control and has been done so for hundreds of years. There used to be wolves in Ireland which used to be the apex predeter.:rolleyes:

Minky 123

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

They wern't asked anything about hare coursing iirc, they were asked stupid fluffy questions like are you a hippy, so do you like animals - wtf?!?

Can you post a list of these things they said that were proved wrong and provide sources to credible sources that have done research on it? If you can't back up any of the rubbish you are posting, then don't post it, you aren't doing the 'side' any favours by doing so.

In fairness they hadnt the facts nor the intellectual capacity to give a detailed answer to a complex question. The hunters had very important facts like hares are 18 times more populated in areas where coursing exists. This research was carried out by queens university I believe.

Cherry Blossom

Minky 123 wrote: »

In fairness they hadnt the facts nor the intellectual capacity to give a detailed answer to a complex question. The hunters had very important facts like hares are 18 times more populated in areas where coursing exists. This research was carried out by queens university I believe.

What complex questions were they asked? Do you know them all personally or how do you know what their intellectual capacity is?

Minky 123

I woundnt go out for a pint with them if thats what your asking. :rolleyes:

Cherry Blossom

I rest my case. :rolleyes:

Alun

Minky 123 wrote: »

The hunters had very important facts like hares are 18 times more populated in areas where coursing exists. This research was carried out by queens university I believe.

Only because they're effectively being 'farmed' by restricting predator numbers and artificially creating habitat in those areas to raise hares purely for use in hare coursing. That's a bit like saying pheasants are more numerous in areas where they're reared for shooting, i.e. they're not doing it out of any concern for the hares or wildlife in general.

gozunda

Alun wrote: »

Only because they're effectively being 'farmed' by restricting predator numbers and artificially creating habitat in those areas to raise hares purely for use in hare coursing. That's a bit like saying pheasants are more numerous in areas where they're reared for shooting, i.e. they're not doing it out of any concern for the hares or wildlife in general.

Unfortunately humans have so altered the natural landscape that wild animals now live in what is effectivly an artificial environment. To conserve and ensure that wildlife survive, requires active management. Where there is a vested interest in any particuliar species and that species is correctly managed- that species will survive and will not be eradicated. Where there are no controls - less managed (and often illegal) forms of control come into play with the result that populations are wiped out. I have seen this with badgers where individuals and groups are involved in illegal and unsavoury practices wipe out complete populations.

Alun

gozunda wrote: »

Unfortunately humans have so altered the natural landscape that wild animals now live in what is effectivly an artificial environment. To conserve and ensure that wildlife survive, requires active management. Where there is a vested interest in any particuliar species and that species is correctly managed- that species will survive and will not be eradicated. Where there are no controls - less managed (and often illegal) forms of control come into play with the result that populations are wiped out. I have seen this with badgers where individuals and groups are involved in illegal and unsavoury practices wipe out complete populations.

I've nothing against conservation, but conserving animals purely for the purposes of 'sport' and then claiming it's being done for the animal's good is nonsense IMO. If you're going to conserve wildlife then do it purely because it's the right thing to do, not for ulterior motives.