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TV3 TONIGHT - The Truth about Irish Bloodsports.
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kildare.17hmr wrote: »Im aware what the thread is about i wanted to know your opinion on hunting in general. as was said the shoot is repeted, weekly in my area and i always see foxes! would not like to see how many were around if i was not shooting there, most of the local farmers are delighted to see me coming as most have had problems with foxes
This i find very hard to believe that NONE of them shoot foxes or allow shooting. i no a couple of farmers that dont shoot them or allow it but to say NONE in your area do id call that a complete lie on your part or id sugest you have only asked 1r2 farmers and not all of them
Its the same in my area, all the farmers got together to ensure no hunting. A couple of guys turned up in the middle of the night last year on someone's land with dogs and guns, within a few minutes all the local farmers were there, together, to get them off the land.0 -
Its the same in my area, all the farmers got together to ensure no hunting. A couple of guys turned up in the middle of the night last year on someone's land with dogs and guns, within a few minutes all the local farmers were there, together, to get them off the land.
You will find the majority of those of us involved in shooting are quiet vocal about condoning people going onto land with out asking permission from the land owner first. You will see plenty of posts on it in the hunting forum.0 -
homerhop beat me to it... iv met farmers who do not allow hunting and some who even have signes up NO SHOOTING and have been given permission by the same farmers just by asking, if i ask and they say no i say no problem thatks for seeing me and leave them my number if they every have a problem, iv had calls off some of them after to clear a field of rabbits or help wit a problem fox. i even had a farmer go mad at me for crossing into his field without permission( honest mistake i was new to the area) who said he doesnt allow shooting on his land, the same farmer called me over the next time he seen me and asked me for some rabbits for his dog and iv been shooting his land ever since!Its the same in my area, all the farmers got together to ensure no hunting. A couple of guys turned up in the middle of the night last year on someone's land with dogs and guns, within a few minutes all the local farmers were there, together, to get them off the land.
what im trying to say is i wouldnt take a lads word as gospal because they can always change their mind and alot of them do!0 -
Other weaknesses in the documentary: A hunting lady explained that farmer need to be protected from foxes because of the damage they do...Henry didn't ask her about the damage the hunters themselves on farms (far in excess of anything the fox could do) or about the fact that thousands of farmers every autumn post hunt ban notices on the provincial media.
Also, Henry K found fault with the ICABS site, but didn't make any effort to pursue the hunters or coursers on any of the nonsense they spouted in defence of sport cruelty. No reference on his part to the alternatives...drag hunting and drag coursing. The whole programme was shamefully biased.
I agree with the previous contributer re the PR aspect of the hare coursing bit...having appreciated how bad the Edenderry CC's behaviour was going to look, the coursing set quickly realised that some good PR was needed, so the other club venues Henry was invited to were well prepared.
The norm, though, is for coursing hunting folk to heavily censor any negative publicity attaching to their sport cruelty.
I commend this forum for its tolerance of pro-hunting views. Though I disagree with those views, I think it is important that all voices be heard. Censoring people's opinion is not just unfair0 -
Discodog wrote:There is no control & foxes are not controlled. The Country is full of foxes. Hunting is killing for pleasure & nothing else.Discodog wrote:But Hunting is only "managing" a tiny percentage of the fox population so it is totally ineffectual.
This is your misunderstanding of what is meant by "control". Fox Hunting is not and has never been about eradicating foxes or large-scale population control - hunts hunt to cull sick, old and "problematic foxes" such as ones preying on livestock. This is the form of control that is refered to.
Selective culling of foxes means that a more healthy population is maintained0 -
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This is your misunderstanding of what is meant by "control". Fox Hunting is not and has never been about eradicating foxes or large-scale population control - hunts hunt to cull sick, old and "problematic foxes" such as ones preying on livestock. This is the form of control that is refered to.
Selective culling of foxes means that a more healthy population is maintained
This is a personal view and not a mod one but I have to disagree with this statement.
Im not a big fan of hunting with hounds but in all fairness why does it take 20 horses and a huge pack of hounds to hunt one little fox.
The way I see it is that hunts arent out to hunt one little sick/old/preying on livestock fox but to make a big la-dee-da of a day out in the name of "sport"
Youre argument is flawed in saying its to cull old/sick foxes that are preying on livestock.Surely a rifle or shotgun would make more sense since in a lot of cases the fox gets away anyway?0 -
This is a personal view and not a mod one but I have to disagree with this statement.
Im not a big fan of hunting with hounds but in all fairness why does it take 20 horses and a huge pack of hounds to hunt one little fox
The way I see it is that hunts arent out to hunt one little sick/old/preying on livestock fox but to make a big la-dee-da of a day out in the name of "sport"
Youre argument is flawed in saying its to cull old/sick foxes that are preying on livestock.Surely a rifle or shotgun would make more sense since in a lot of cases the fox gets away anyway? .
Thats fair enough HR...
I can only relate my own personal experience and knowledge of fox hunting..
Each member of the hunting field play a part in the hunt. Hunts use local knowledge to help identify a particular fox where required. The hounds follow the scent of the fox . A young healthy fox will outrun and "outfox" hounds on nearly every occasion. This is how sick and old individuals are sucessfully hunted - these are the foxes that cause the most predation in domestic animals as they are less capable of fending for themselves hunting wild prey.
Where fox escapes it will earn to avoid humans. A large pack of hounds, hunters and horses are easily picked up by the most laid back fox. They dont exactly sneak up on the fox.
Foxes are also shot but this is a different form of control to that of mounted fox hunting. With mounted fox hunting it is fairly easy to target a particular fox. On a hunt the average "run" for a fox is between 15-30 minutes not "hours". A hunt may last some hours but a lot of this time is spent navigating roads, ditches and waiting around for the hounds to find.
Once caught the fox is dead in a matter of minutes. Hounds may fight over remains but the fox is dead at this point.0 -
This is your misunderstanding of what is meant by "control". Fox Hunting is not and has never been about eradicating foxes or large-scale population control - hunts hunt to cull sick, old and "problematic foxes" such as ones preying on livestock. This is the form of control that is refered to.
Selective culling of foxes means that a more healthy population is maintained
You don't need 20 dogs to kill a fox, but you do to terrorise the animal and thus create fun and games for the huntspeople and followers. Foxhunting has no purpose apart from amusing the participants. Just think of the contradictory defence of this perverted activity..."we hardly ever catch a fox and most of them get away" some pest control! And "someone needs to control the fox as it doesn't have a natural predator"...someone, but not an army of humans horses and dogs, and terriers to drag it to the surface if it goes to ground. I'd have more respect for foxhunters if they admitted the obvious, that they do it because they like inflicting pain and suffering for kicks. Drag hunting is there for anyone who truly wishes to enjoy the fresh air, riding, obstacle jumping etc, without terrorising wild dogs or tearing up fields of winter corn or scattering livestock in all directions.0 -
Thats fair enough HR...
I can only relate my own personal experience and knowledge of fox hunting..
Each member of the hunting field play a part in the hunt. Hunts use local knowledge to help identify a particular fox where required. The hounds follow the scent of the fox . A young healthy fox will outrun and "outfox" hounds on nearly every occasion. This is how sick and old individuals are sucessfully hunted - these are the foxes that cause the most predation in domestic animals as they are less capable of fending for themselves hunting wild prey.
Where fox escapes it will earn to avoid humans. A large pack of hounds, hunters and horses are easily picked up by the most laid back fox. They dont exactly sneak up on the fox.
Foxes are also shot but this is a different form of control to that of mounted fox hunting. With mounted fox hunting it is fairly easy to target a particular fox. On a hunt the average "run" for a fox is between 15-30 minutes not "hours". A hunt may last some hours but a lot of this time is spent navigating roads, ditches and waiting around for the hounds to find.
Once caught the fox is dead in a matter of minutes. Hounds may fight over remains but the fox is dead at this point.
It is not just about killing. It is the method...chasing the fox for hours until exhaustion delivers it to the dogs...drawing out and prolonging its ordeal and its suffering for no other reason but to provide amusement for the hunters and followers.
By the way, isn't it some "sport" that targets the weak, the sick, the old, and the vulnerable?0 -
It is not just about killing. It is the method...chasing the fox for hours until exhaustion delivers it to the dogs...drawing out and prolonging its ordeal and its suffering for no other reason but to provide amusement for the hunters and followers.
You must not have read the above post TF77!
So once again...On a hunt the average "run" for a fox is between 15-30 minutes not "hours". A hunt may last some hours but a lot of this time is spent navigating roads, ditches and waiting around for the hounds to find.
Once caught the fox is dead in a matter of minutes. Hounds may fight over remains but the fox is dead at this point.
The fox gets caught quickly, dies quickly and does not crawl away to suffer a lingering death..By the way, isn't it some "sport" that targets the weak, the sick, the old, and the vulnerable?
Sick and old individuals are sucessfully hunted - these are the foxes that cause the most predation in domestic animals as they are less capable of fending for themselves hunting wild prey
It is of interest that the term "sport" in relation to fox hunting is generally used by antis not hunters0 -
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Ok Im going to play devils advocate here.Can you explain in detail if its not too much bother what each member does--Im still not getting the reason for so many to hunt one sick old fox.Each member of the hunting field play a part in the hunt.
Ok I`ll go along with this one because I cant tell one fox from another and I doubt all these members can either.Hunts use local knowledge to help identify a particular fox where required.
First bit that I get.The hounds follow the scent of the fox .
So youre not denying that health animals are sometimes killed?A young healthy fox will outrun and "outfox" hounds on nearly every occasion.This is how sick and old individuals are sucessfully hunted - these are the foxes that cause the most predation in domestic animals as they are less capable of fending for themselves hunting wild prey.
But is it not also true that old foxes sometimes get away so the whole argument behind culling old/sick foxes is still flawed especially if young health ones are sometimes killed.
I`d agree with this having experienced a couple of hunts.They dont chase a fox for hours upon hours.On a hunt the average "run" for a fox is between 15-30 minutes not "hours".
Again Ive seen this first hand and I agree with you.A hunt may last some hours but a lot of this time is spent navigating roads, ditches and waiting around for the hounds to find.
Its only dead in a matter of minutes if someone steps up and kills it humanely.Again from experience this is not always the case and the hounds are not fighting over remains but over a still living animal.Once caught the fox is dead in a matter of minutes.Hounds may fight over remains but the fox is dead at this point.
See above.0 -
Ok Im going to play devils advocate here.Can you explain in detail if its not too much bother what each member does--Im still not getting the reason for so many to hunt one sick old fox.
Long story short. The hounds hunt the fox. The hunt members help the hounds in various ways including directing the fox away from roads by standing in a set location etc. The hunt staff regulate the hounds.So youre not denying that health animals are sometimes killed?
They can also go to earth. Hounds can also be called off if needs be. Many a days hunt does not get a fox. A fox may be just unlucky too. That is part and parcel of hunting. That said it is a very effective way of finding a specific fox.But is it not also true that old foxes sometimes get away so the whole argument behind culling old/sick foxes is still flawed especially if young health ones are sometimes killed.
See above. Though no method of hunting is pefect. The best sharp shooter sometimes misses their target and it gets away. . Thats what I like about foxhunting - foxes will escape and confuse hounds - to evade the hounds perhaps another day.Its only dead in a matter of minutes if someone steps up and kills it humanely.Again from experience this is not always the case and the hounds are not fighting over remains but over a still living animal.
In my experience the caught fox has been killed quickly. More importantly they dont crawl away to a lingering death0 -
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Tippfan--UIve had another report about you complaining about your ban from the Hunting forum.You have once again complained about the mods there after me warning you already which you choose to ignore.
Im issuing a red card and editing your post.This is a final warning.Next time I am banning you from this forum0 -
Im not a big fan of hunting with hounds but in all fairness why does it take 20 horses and a huge pack of hounds to hunt one little fox.
Followers of the hunt get access to land that they do not normally have in Ireland there are no such thing as bridlepaths that you get in the UK. There are season/time limits on beaches and I think permits for some of them. For forestry you must pay a permit each year. I think horse can ride along some canals as horses used to pull barges so there is established use of it. If the canal path is dilapidated/narrow it is questionable if horses can be on it.
The money that followers pay goes towards the running of the hunt. With rifles not every shot is 100% and even though a proper hunter will find the wounded fox there is the chance that it will get away wounded especially if terrain or conditions change. If a hound catches a fox it does not get away!0 -
doctor evil wrote: »Followers of the hunt get access to land that they do not normally have in Ireland there are no such thing as bridlepaths that you get in the UK. There are season/time limits on beaches and I think permits for some of them. For forestry you must pay a permit each year. I think horse can ride along some canals as horses used to pull barges so there is established use of it. If the canal path is dilapidated/narrow it is questionable if horses can be on it.
It seems an awful waste of this great opportunity to spend all but 15-30 minutes of it standing around waiting in all fairness.0 -
Horses/riders get a break at each stop, its just part of it its not all go.0
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doctor evil wrote: »Horses/riders get a break at each stop, its just part of it its not all go.
I think you misunderstood my post, others have posted here that the 'chase' only lasts 15-30 minutes and the rest of the time is standing around waiting on the hounds to pick up a scent. What is the point of gaining access to lands that wouldn't normally be available to riders otherwise if they are just going to stand around on it, that's if this is why people do it/why the riders are there as you imply. Surely drag-hunting would utilise the use of the lands more fully?0 -
The way I see it is that hunts arent out to hunt one little sick/old/preying on livestock fox but to make a big la-dee-da of a day out in the name of "sport"
Anyone I know who goes fox-hunting, this is exactly why they do it, and will often say 'pity about the fox but sure they mightn't catch him (always a 'him') and if they do sure it's great craic and it passes the day :rolleyes:0 -
With the advent of muzzling the numbers of Hares (1993) killed decreased greatly from 16% to 4%. The 4% kill rate would be attibuted to capture myopathy. Watching the TV3 programme you would think no hares are harmed. With the decreasing national numbers of hares even small numbers being killed is worrying.
Thanks for posting some actual figures !. Can you give a link or some information as to how they were derived ?. At what time was the kill rate assessed ?. In other words was it the rate at the meet or during a period of post release follow up.0 -
kildare.17hmr wrote: »id call that a complete lie on your part or id sugest you have only asked 1r2 farmers and not all of them
Well not only don't I lie on here but you will never be able to find an example of where I have lied. As the owner of three dogs I walk far & wide. I used to be concerned that someone might be shooting but I haven't heard a shot since moving here. I see a lot of foxes. One farmer even showed me where to watch a Vixen with her cubs. I think that the farmers, in my area, have a more laid back live & let live attitude. I asked a neighbour last night & his comment was that if anything needed shooting then he would shoot it. He didn't want anyone with a gun on his land.
When I was living in the UK I was employed as an Ecologist. I had to visit a lot of farms & I was asked to contribute to the, then proposed, hunting ban. I was actually surprised at how many farmers were opposed to hunting & shooting.0 -
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This is your misunderstanding of what is meant by "control". Fox Hunting is not and has never been about eradicating foxes or large-scale population control - hunts hunt to cull sick, old and "problematic foxes" such as ones preying on livestock. This is the form of control that is refered to.
Selective culling of foxes means that a more healthy population is maintained
If you read some previous threads you would see that I am not mis-understanding. I spent many years working as an Ecologist in the UK.
The old/sick fox argument came up before the UK ban. But the Hunts refused to allow any study to back it up. Can you provide any links to any Irish studies ?. Surely it would in the interest of Hunting to allow independent studies of the age & condition of foxes that are being killed by Hunts ?.
This whole thread & all the other hunting threads are like deja vu. I know that RISE sought support from the UK Countryside Alliance & it seems that the same old arguments are being recycled.
We are also following the UK in that the emphasis, from the Hunts, has changed. They are now much more PR concious & try to control comment. In the past they would not give a damn about anyone else's view but Gormley scared them.
Also, as happened in the UK, there was conflict between the shooters & the fox hunters/coursers. In all the debates shooters were pretty much left out of it & they expressed great concern about being lumped into any legislation.
There is now some relief in that the Greens have gone but bloodsports supporters are now uneasy about what tack will be taken by the new government. Labour are the minority party but so were the Greens. Both have promised an Animal Welfare Bill. If, as expected, it follows other recent legislation in the UK, then it will cover wildlife.
All of the PR from the IGB, ICC & Hunts is a good sign that they are worried. It is an enlightening experience to join Greyhound & shooting forums. You can easily find ones where hunters discuss issues very frankly - you will even find comments like be careful there may be anti's here !.0 -
Thanks. I am aware of this study - I was hoping that something else might of surfaced to back it up. There is an inherent problem in that one cannot do a study without the support of the ICC & they are hardly likely to back research if they think that there is any likelihood of it not supporting their case. It was a pretty safe bet that muzzling would reduce mortality.
As one might expect the Courser's focus on the 18 times figure & ignore the rest when it comes to the effect on Wild Hare populations.
Two phrases spring to mind from the report:
"However, the dual effects of removing hares from the source population and of returning coursed hares to the wild are not considered here and remain poorly understood."
"Similar work is necessary to establish the overall impact of coursing activities on wild hare populations. "0 -
the antis website and supporters were urging people to watch this programme for days even weeks before it showed. now cos it turned out not to be some anti hunting propaganda video they're spitting their dummies out.
the progamme was fair and gave both sides a fair crack.
there was a good letter in the metro in response to a letter from bernie wright bout the programme. a man who didnt like bloodsports basicly said the progamme was fair and that bernie shouldnt be spouting on about bias when she has it in abunance.
look that programme wont chance anyones minds regarding hunting. if you were anti you'll still be anti, pro you'll still be pro and like alot "couldnt give a phuck" then you still wont give a phuck.
tv3 did a fair balanced docu and should be commended for it.0 -
round tower huntsman wrote: »the progamme was fair and gave both sides a fair crack.
tv3 did a fair balanced docu and should be commended for it.
You really think that 8 mins against hunting & 40 mins pro hunting is fair ?.
If you look here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056211932
You will see that the hunters were dreading the program & are now overjoyed. If it had been balanced then both sides would be complaining & not just one.0 -
no hunter dreaded it we just expected the usual anti hysteria especially cos it referred to our sports as "bloodsports". i was surprised at how fair it was. i found it very middle of the road.
you and your lot are just pissed that it wasnt like a video posted on your websites.
the programme wont change any ones opinions really so let it go.0 -
round tower huntsman wrote: »you and your lot are just pissed that it wasnt like a video posted on your websites.
I do not have websites & I do not have a "lot". I am not a member of any group or organisation & I actually disagree with some of the things posted on animal rights websites.
Now please read my previous posts as I don't want to have to keep typing the same thing.0 -
Well not only don't I lie on here but you will never be able to find an example of where I have lied... When I was living in the UK I was employed as an Ecologist. I had to visit a lot of farms & I was asked to contribute to the, then proposed, hunting ban. I was actually surprised at how many farmers were opposed to hunting & shooting.... I spent many years working as an Ecologist in the UK...The old/sick fox argument came up before the UK ban. But the Hunts refused to allow any study to back it up. Can you provide any links to any Irish studies ?. Surely it would in the interest of Hunting to allow independent studies of the age & condition of foxes that are being killed by Hunts ?.... It is an enlightening experience to join Greyhound & shooting forums. You can easily find ones where hunters discuss issues very frankly - you will even find comments like be careful there may be anti's here !.
Discodog - Ahh how things clarify! You wish to bring your little cause celebre to these shores by your rants and demand for proof and then not believing anything anyone posts in reply that you dont agree with.
Btw are you saying you have lied - but we are to stupid to catch you out? Interesting.Discodog wrote:It is an enlightening experience to join Greyhound & shooting forums. You can easily find ones where hunters discuss issues very frankly - you will even find comments like be careful there may be anti's here !.
Were you not banned from the Hunting Forum?
Why not you keep your agitation and troublemaking to yourself and stop berating those involved in a legal activity that has widespread support throughout this country. Ireland is NOT the UK. Your anti hunt activities that worked over there and "joining" forums to attempt to score points and disrupt a legal activity are to be despised.
You claim to have spent many years working as Ecologist, live in Ireland - and yet have never came across a major publication on Irish Fauna by the Irish Heritage Service! I also have worked as an ecologist and I am pro-hunting. I too have visited a lot of farms and am amazed how much support for fox hunting is out there.
How about taking up a hobby and doing something constructive for a change?
*News Update*Discodog wrote:..We* are also following the UK in that the emphasis, from the Hunts, has changed. They are now much more PR concious & try to control comment. In the past they would not give a damn about anyone else's view but Gormley scared them.
From the RTE News LINKAround 300 members of the Green Party have begun a post election post-mortem meeting in a Dublin hotel.
The meeting is the first since the party's six TDs all lost their seats in the General Election.
It is also the first gathering since party leader John Gormley announced he would be standing down as leader.
Gormley is gone.....
Please note the use of the Royal "We*" again - or is that a reference to a specific organisation?0 -
You wish to bring your little cause celebre to these shores by your rants and demand for proof and then not believing anything anyone posts in reply that you dont agree with.
Btw are you saying you have lied - but we are to stupid to catch you out? Interesting.
No I was born here. I am Irish & I am exercising my right to speak on matters in my country. Not only haven't I lied but I back up what I say unlike you who to date has only produced one reference.Were you not banned from the Hunting Forum?
Never banned on Boards & only given one minor infraction in well over 2000 posts - I posted "what is a kennel ?" & got told not to be naughty when I first joined.Why not you keep your agitation and troublemaking to yourself and stop berating those involved in a legal activity that has widespread support throughout this country. Ireland is NOT the UK. Your anti hunt activities that worked over there and "joining" forums to attempt to score points and disrupt a legal activity are to be despised.
Because if I did people might only get to hear the views of people like you. I object to the term troublemaker. Yet again you are trying to suggest that I am part of some group & possible involved in illegal activities. Knowing that you despise me is the best justification ever - thank you.You claim to have spent many years working as Ecologist, live in Ireland - and yet have never came across a major publication on Irish Fauna by the Irish Heritage Service !
Major publication - to you maybe but not to me. I would be as well off reading a tourist leaflet. I am staggered that if you are Ecologist that you couldn't even quote the Queens University link - that is the standard study quoted by hunters.How about taking up a hobby and doing something constructive for a change?
I have put a temporary halt on hobbies as it is so much fun annoying you. My replies on Boards are usually courteous & polite which would be regrettably lost on you.
When you started posting, for one moment I actually thought that you might be a hunter capable of reasoned debate. I actually regret that you are living up to your name.
Gormley is gone.....
Please note the use of the Royal "We*" again - or is that a reference to a specific organisation?
Duh he was gone after the election.
I am Irish & I live here so I am perfectly entitled to use the word to describe my fellow Irish.
Have you worked out how many hounds are killed every year yet ?.0 -
No I was born here. I am Irish & I am exercising my right to speak on matters in my country. Not only haven't I lied but I back up what I say unlike you who to date has only produced one reference..
Never said you weren't Irish btw. I was under the impression that this is a forum for discussion not a Soapbox but I stand corrected. With regard to references you wouldn't even believe the reference given! You on the other hand have given no references whatsover and for every question you have asked if the answer didn't match up to your expected answer, you simply ignored the answer and kept on asking the same questions again and againNever banned on Boards & only given one minor infraction in well over 2000 posts - I posted "what is a kennel ?" & got told not to be naughty when I first joined.
What about the current Moderator comment that you have been "warned on multiple occasions" and "to drop" your current row with Scartman. A little economical with the truth perhaps?Because if I did people might only get to hear the views of people like you. I object to the term troublemaker. Yet again you are trying to suggest that I am part of some group & possible involved in illegal activities. Knowing that you despise me is the best justification ever - thank you.
For clarity that was "troublemaking" (see above) and your self admitted activities that were "despised". Do not flatter yourself that I have made any comment on you as individual. I have no idea what you are involved in except that which you have alluded to.Major publication - to you maybe but not to me. I would be as well off reading a tourist leaflet. I am staggered that if you are Ecologist that you couldn't even quote the Queens University link - that is the standard study quoted by hunters.
Firsty you had never even heard of this publication - it is a standard reference. And you didn't even know it was book (and you a self proclaimed ecologist - for shame!). Why should hunters be predictable and quote the same references for your delectation. Some of us might even have PhDs you know!I have put a temporary halt on hobbies as it is so much fun annoying you. My replies on Boards are usually courteous & polite which would be regrettably lost on you.
I refer other posters once again to the Moderators comments above :rolleyes:When you started posting, for one moment I actually thought that you might be a hunter capable of reasoned debate. I actually regret that you are living up to your name.
Alas I found that you were not looking for reasoned debate just confirmation of your own narrow views and where the answer given didn't match up to your expected answer, you simply ignored it and kept on asking the same questions again and againDuh he was gone after the election..
Yes and It was your good self that invoked Gormless!
...and finally have you worked out how to use the phone yet to make contact with your local hunt kennels?0 -
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Firsty you had never even heard of this publication - it is a standard reference.
It's a tourist guide & not even a scientific publication.I refer other posters once again to the Moderators comments above
If you use the search function you will see that we have discussed hunting many times. You will even find posts by hunters who state that they respect the way that I present my thoughts. Maybe when you reach 3000 posts you may of had a warning or two.Alas I found that you were not looking for reasoned debate just confirmation of your own narrow views and where the answer given didn't match up to your expected answer, you simply ignored it and kept on asking the same questions again and again
Someone here has already commented that, with your evasive techniques, you would make a good politician. The only question that I keep asking is how many hounds are killed every year. Now it would be easy for you to "pick up the phone" & find out but you keep evading the question.
Now to avoid going off topic how about we focus on the TV program & it's implications, like the welfare of Hounds, rather than personal insults.0
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