TV3 TONIGHT - The Truth about Irish Bloodsports.

ISDW

LB6 wrote: »

I imagine he did mean truth too - but he's from the "wink" he's likening the issues of last weeks programme to this weeks one. One has nothing to do with the other and the comment was uncalled for and not on topic for this forum. Not back-seat modding - and I enjoy reading the comments from both sides, so less of the SNIDE remarks would make it easier reading.

LMAO @ the truth about Catholics - now that could be run as a series on it's own!

I'm sure DD is well able to come and say what he meant,:rolleyes: but I took it that he was talking about the programme maker, and the documentary style, they are both "The Truth About ........" so I would actually be interested in watching it to see how he handles this topic, would give me more an insight into how he and the production team went about the research etc for the Bloodsports programme.

Discodog

ISDW is pretty right. I would not trust Henry McKean to produce an unbiased program on any subject.

ISDW

Discodog wrote: »

ISDW is pretty right. I would not trust Henry McKean to produce an unbiased program on any subject.

Big surprise hey, he managed to find an Irish Muslim who was sympathetic to 9/11 and has called his son Osama after Bin Laden:rolleyes:

Itsdacraic

Discodog wrote: »

ISDW is pretty right. I would not trust Henry McKean to produce an unbiased program on any subject.

I'd trust him more than I'd trust the anti's to produce a video, when you consider the supposed video of Clonmel they produced last year.

Discodog

Itsdacraic wrote: »

I'd trust him more than I'd trust the anti's to produce a video, when you consider the supposed video of Clonmel they produced last year.

Can you prove that the video is fake ?. Are you going to keep raising the issue of a video that is over one year old, has been the subject of a Garda investigation, has prompted a €20,000 euro reward from the ICC, & no arrest or prosecution even though the Gardai are fully aware of the identities of the alleged accused.

Discodog

ISDW wrote: »

Big surprise hey, he managed to find an Irish Muslim who was sympathetic to 9/11 and has called his son Osama after Bin Laden:rolleyes:

No worse that making a one hour program purporting to be a balanced appraisal & not even asking the opinion of the ISPCA.

gozunda

Itsdacraic wrote: »

I'd trust him more than I'd trust the anti's to produce a video, when you consider the supposed video of Clonmel they produced last year.

Agreed.

Though if we go with the argument here then surely the documenary should be not just about Muslims... what about the Hindus ...and the Catholics surely they should have a say too!

*getting my coat* I'm away to Broadcasting Authority so

Itsdacraic

Discodog wrote: »

Can you prove that the video is fake ?. Are you going to keep raising the issue of a video that is over one year old, has been the subject of a Garda investigation, has prompted a €20,000 euro reward from the ICC, & no arrest or prosecution even though the Gardai are fully aware of the identities of the alleged accused.

Discodog, you are a very good poster and I respect the manner in which you put across your case in a very level headed manner, without a lot of the hysteria these type of threads usually produce. That said I think you come as a bit silly defending that video. It is plain as day what went on there.

Anyways as always happens with these threads. It has almost come full circle. So I'm going to leave it at that.

Until the next time!

Discodog

gozunda wrote: »

Agreed.

Though if we go with the argument here then surely the documenary should be not just about Muslims... what about the Hindus ...and the Catholics surely they should have a say too!

*getting my coat* I'm away to Broadcasting Authority so

You just have no concept of balance. The program was about one religion & the show that we are discussing was about one category of "sport". So by your logic it should of balanced bloodsports against Cricket !.

But there is one other key difference. Muslims can speak for themselves, abused animals cannot. The great Connemara man "Humanity" Dick Martin once fought a duel on behalf of an Ox. When asked why he replied that "an Ox cannot hold a pistol".

Discodog

Itsdacraic wrote: »

That said I think you come as a bit silly defending that video.

Well I believe on guilt being proven or claims being substantiated. If the Guards don't see a crime then why should I. The ICC/IGB have a history of trying to hide the truth. Anyone like me who asks them for basic information, like the number of Greyhound puppies produced per year, has to instigate a Freedom of Information Order & pay fees.

The information is contained in the "Stud Book" & is supposed to be a public record but they refuse to release any information unless forced to by a FOI. This is made even worse considering that they get a load of our taxes & then refuse to let us see how they spend it.

homerhop

Discodog wrote: »

Well I believe on guilt being proven or claims being substantiated.

The reality is they could not let him in because there were things that they didn't want seen & they didn't have ICC clearance.
They could make the field secure without all the polythene screening to hide what's going on, if they had nothing to hide.

Discodog wrote: »

If the Guards don't see a crime then why should I.

must remember that one too next time you go off on a tangent about the guards lack of motivation on aspects you feel strongly about.

Discodog wrote: »

I actually disagree with some of the things posted on animal rights websites.

Since you are in a letter writing mood how many letters of complaint or emails have you sent to these sites about your concerns with what they have displayed on their sites?
Have you called for an investigation into some of the activities of those animal rights groups who go around breaking into buildings, releasing animals or damaging property?

gozunda

Discodog wrote: »

You just have no concept of balance. The program was about one religion & the show that we are discussing was about one category of "sport". So by your logic it should of balanced bloodsports against Cricket !.

But there is one other key difference. Muslims can speak for themselves, abused animals cannot. The great Connemara man "Humanity" Dick Martin once fought a duel on behalf of an Ox. When asked why he replied that "an Ox cannot hold a pistol".

The comparison stands and your post missed the point that I made. The two "sides" that have been mentioned in this thread with regard to the TV3 program are hunting and anti-hunting. So it could be that the current program should be about Muslims and non believers then. Though it could equally be any other religion that have divergent beliefs. The reality is of course is that the program was about hunting. It didn't need to have "sides". Just the way the Muslim faith doesn't need to be compared with any thing else.

gozunda

Duplicate post

Discodog

homerhop wrote: »

Since you are in a letter writing mood how many letters of complaint or emails have you sent to these sites about your concerns with what they have displayed on their sites?
Have you called for an investigation into some of the activities of those animal rights groups who go around breaking into buildings, releasing animals or damaging property?

I have written to several sites objecting to some of their content that I feel alienates support.

How can I call for an investigation if I am not involved. I totally oppose activities that prejudice animal welfare especially the releasing of animals such as Mink.

But if, for example horrific things were happening in a puppy farm, then I would support the gathering of evidence. Or covert filming such as the latest video showing a circus elephant being beaten.

Having said this I totally support & admire peaceful protest. It is tragic that so few in Ireland complain.

Discodog

gozunda wrote: »

The reality is of course is that the program was about hunting. It didn't need to have "sides".

It needed balance. It needed the views of both sides to be challenged. It needed to be fair - so 30 mins each. There are sides. You support the killing of animals for pleasure & I do not, so we are poles apart.

gozunda

Discodog wrote: »

It needed balance. It needed the views of both sides to be challenged. It needed to be fair - so 30 mins each. There are sides. You support the killing of animals for pleasure & I do not, so we are poles apart.

It was a documentary about those who participate in hunting and coursing. It was not a documentary about anti-hunters. Maybe if some asks nicely Henry McKean might do The Truth about Anti-Hunting groups! Now that would be interesting. I do not support the killing of anything for pleasure btw and I do not know you so I dont know your motives and I dont presume to do so (but could probably make a good guess).

Discodog

gozunda wrote: »

It was a documentary about those who participate in hunting and coursing. It was not a documentary about anti-hunters. Maybe if some asks nicely Henry McKean might do The Truth about Anti-Hunting groups! Now that would be interesting. I do not support the killing of anything for pleasure btw and I do not know you so I dont know your motives and I dont presume to do so (but could probably make a good guess).

The program was called the Truth about Irish Bloodsports.

You Fox Hunt with dogs which is killing for pleasure in my book. Anyone who has been around this Board for a while can see that my motive is to inform & give my personal opinion. I have been thanked 1380 times so maybe some here welcome my input. Yet again you are attacking the poster & not the post.

I am far from happy with the quality of opposition to Bloodsports. It is time for moderate thinking people to stand up against cruelty. But what really baffles me is why the Bloodsporters express any concern at opposing opinion as there is no way that hunting/coursing is about to be banned.

EDIT: a couple of updates. The ISPCA are annoyed that they were not contacted or invited to contribute & ARAN are unhappy as well.

Hellrazer

Discodog wrote: »

Yet again you are attacking the poster & not the post.

And thats back seat moderating.

I am issuing a yellow card for it this time.

purity

Absolutely vile fox hunting:mad: those who engage in that sport deserve to be punished. How does one get satisfaction knowing it's torturing another living thing. I hate animal cruelty

Grizzly 45

How would you punish them Purity???
This is the one I always love to hear.As some of the comments like "They are not fit to live in civillised society."[Laura Broxton AFAR website,bloodsports paragraph] would make me want to make damn sure people like Broxton,Wright andYourell and their ilk NEVER get any political power,as they would proably be recreating the death camps to dispose of their version of "undesireables" within the day.

That kind of blind hatred scares me,and it isnt too far before it is justified in somones warped mind that it is OK to justify firebombing somones house or beating them up on the street,or worse for some cause,be it "animal rights,Catholic rights,Protestant rights ,gay rights,or to eat boild sweets rights"!!

Discodog

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

"They are not fit to live in civillised society."

I will avoid the urge to find many extremist comments that have been put online by pro hunting groups.

Again there is the suggestion that anyone who opposes cruelty is extreme or that they support illegality. If hunting is illegal & someone is prosecuted then the Judge decides the punishment.

gozunda

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

How would you punish them Purity???
This is the one I always love to hear.As some of the comments like "They are not fit to live in civillised society."[Laura Broxton AFAR website,bloodsports paragraph] would make me want to make damn sure people like Broxton,Wright andYourell and their ilk NEVER get any political power,as they would proably be recreating the death camps to dispose of their version of "undesireables" within the day.

That kind of blind hatred scares me,and it isnt too far before it is justified in somones warped mind that it is OK to justify firebombing somones house or beating them up on the street,or worse for some cause,be it "animal rights,Catholic rights,Protestant rights ,gay rights,or to eat boild sweets rights"!!

Its a good point G. Hunting is legal in this country. It is not therefore legal to "punish" someone who engages in an legal activity such as hunting. I dont know if this is relevent but the Incitement to Hated Act 1989 also makes it an offence to

(a) to publish or distribute written material,

(b) to use words, behave or display written material—

(i) in any place other than inside a private residence, or

(ii) inside a private residence so that the words, behaviour or material are heard or seen by persons outside the residence,
or
(c) to distribute, show or play a recording of visual images or sounds,
if the written material, words, behaviour, visual images or sounds, as the case may be, are threatening, abusive or insulting and are intended or, having regard to all the circumstances, are likely to stir up hatred.

Personally I like boiled sweets but I can respect those that dont....

carobu

Minky 123 wrote: »

Well it told you the truth about bloodsports did'nt it? The fact that hare coarsing is a well regulated and orgainised sport which is a important part of rural society. There are more neglected dogs in pounds been put down every week than foxes killed in hunts. The facts speak for themselves......

You have no idea. . .just because there are neglected dogs in pounds soesn't justify the killing of foxes. There is a lot of cruelty in this world but I think people who are involved in bloodsports should be ashamed of themselves, justifying it as a service to get rid of foxes or a part of rural society makes them appear uneducated and inhuman. I am from a rural area and am ashamed of this link. There is no justification for capturing and holding a hare for weeks only to have him chased by 2 greyhounds. As for "facts", I just saw a one sided pro hunting programme.

Grizzly 45

Discodog wrote: »

I will avoid the urge to find many extremist comments that have been put online by pro hunting groups.

Again there is the suggestion that anyone who opposes cruelty is extreme or that they support illegality. If hunting is illegal & someone is prosecuted then the Judge decides the punishment.

Please do DD..So long as they are related to the Irish situation.Otherwise it will be a global slanging match,and I dont know of any hunters convicted of burning down any vegan shops,or chucking paint over somones hemp frock,or having to go and dig up and desecrate graves to make a point,or having to consort with terrorist elements from NI.

Again we have the warping of comments..Oppose cruelty certainly,but that gives you no right to ram your belifs, opinions, creed, down anyone elses throat.I was commenting on Puritys comment that she said people who hunt must be punished..

First off Field sports are not illegal here and are unlikely to be for a long time,and with our current Govt they will be hopefully secured for a long time yet to come.
So there is no judge required or punishment.

When you maybe get to change the law by legislative and majority consent :rolleyes::D you will have a case.

BTW as for complaining about this programme being one sided,unfair,etc,etc, Us pro fieldsports and gunowners have had this kind of negative press and TV shows for years in mainstream media.So you have had one little programme not agreeing with your views 100% and its all so horrible and nasty.. Embrace the Suck !!We on the pro side have had so much of it ,it bounces of us now.Cry me a river,build a bridge,and get over it!!!

Discodog

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Please do DD..So long as they are related to the Irish situation.Otherwise it will be a global slanging match,and I dont know of any hunters convicted of burning down any vegan shops,or chucking paint over somones hemp frock,or having to go and dig up and desecrate graves to make a point,or having to consort with terrorist elements from NI.

Again we have the warping of comments.

Warping ?. You have just spouted a stack of allegations without any proof.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

,but that gives you no right to ram your belifs, opinions, creed, down anyone elses throat.

But I have every right to express my views. You complain about so called animal rights activists yet you moan about freedom of speech.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Us pro fieldsports and gunowners have had this kind of negative press and TV shows for years in mainstream media.

Where & when ?. I have never seen a program opposing bloodsports.

Grizzly 45

Discodog wrote: »

Warping ?. You have just spouted a stack of allegations without any proof.

Proof you want..So you shall have..:)
Google John Peel grave desecrated by animal rights extremists.
Well actually heres the link..
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/desecrating-graves-a-chilling-tactic-revived-from-the-annals-of-animal-rights-extremism-535272.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_for_the_Ethical_Treatment_of_Animals
On paint throwing of fur coats,violent direct action

Ask Bernie Wright what she was thinking about bringin a loyalist renegade firebomber who was active in Derry down to discuss "tactics" at a meeting of her group @the Batchelors Inn on Batchleors walk,Dublin on or around Nov 1997.
Oh lets nor forget Robin Webb convicted of firearms and explosive possession??Still lecturing in one of our premire Dublin Universities I belive??
Ah wait our old friend John Fitzgerald of CACS in Kilkenny.His website is intresting too.. http://www.directactionireland.com/irishnewspaperreports.htm

So lets not try and bandy about that there is no proof out there .



I await your response on your previous comments about

"to find many extremist comments that have been put online by pro hunting groups."

Will we be waiting long?????:)

But I have every right to express my views. You complain about so called animal rights activists yet you moan about freedom of speech.

Where do I complain about that???
I support freedom of speech,yours included..Indeed express your views and I will fight to the death for your right to do so.BUT when you try and force therm on others BY ANY MEANS then you are on very thin ice!

Where & when ?. I have never seen a program opposing bloodsports.

So you have NEVER seen a programme that makes out hunters to be evil,knuckledraggers,wife beating trailer trash??Or gun owners to be fat incompetant clumsy morons???You obviously dont watch much pouplar Sitcoms or any other Hollywood drivel then??Never watched a nature programme on Africa where "hunters" are blamed for decimation of whatever animal is currently the cutencuddly???
Cmon you WILL have to do better than that!!!!:D

Discodog

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Please do DD..So long as they are related to the Irish situation.Otherwise it will be a global slanging match

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Discodog wrote: »

Google John Peel grave desecrated by animal rights extremists.

Well actually heres the link..

Not in Ireland !.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Ask Bernie Wright what she was thinking about bringin a loyalist renegade firebomber who was active in Derry down to discuss "tactics" at a meeting of her group @the Batchelors Inn on Batchleors walk,Dublin on or around Nov 1997.
Oh lets nor forget Robin Webb convicted of firearms and explosive possession??Still lecturing in one of our premire Dublin Universities I belive??

So you object to anyone who was "involved" in the "troubles" years ago, working in Ireland ?.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Will we be waiting long?????

Yes because unlike you I am not taking this thread wildly off topic regarding tit for tat allegations.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

BUT when you try and force therm on others BY ANY MEANS then you are on very thin ice!

So yet again the pro hunting crowd make unsubstantiated allegations. Do you have any proof that I am involved in any illegal activity or connected to any Animal Rights groups ?.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

So you have NEVER seen a programme that makes out hunters to be evil,knuckledraggers,wife beating trailer trash??Or gun owners to be fat incompetant clumsy morons???You obviously dont watch much pouplar Sitcoms or any other Hollywood drivel then??Never watched a nature programme on Africa where "hunters" are blamed for decimation of whatever animal is currently the cutencuddly???
Cmon you WILL have to do better than that!!!!

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Please do DD..So long as they are related to the Irish situation.Otherwise it will be a global slanging match

Looks like some hunters are hypocrites !. The African hunters are ususally poachers - but maybe you support the slaughtering of endangered wildlife for money ?

Now finally to get back on topic. Newstalk broadcast a section on Greyhound Racing during the weekend. Lots of fluffy talk about spoilt dogs etc & no mention of the thousands of Greyhounds that are killed by the industry or the hundreds that end up in Pounds or rescues.

Hellrazer

Discodog wrote: »

So yet again the pro hunting crowd make unsubstantiated allegations. Do you have any proof that I am involved in any illegal activity or connected to any Animal Rights groups ?.

Discodog--I dont see anyone here making any allegations about you.

Grizzly 45

Discodog wrote: »

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Not in Ireland !.

But kind of hyprocritical of you not to condem it either...I note you make no comment of all the other actions so gloriously listed by Johnnie Fitzgeralds website...Cant deny they didnt happen in Ireland..
:rolleyes::rolleyes:

So you object to anyone who was "involved" in the "troubles" years ago, working in Ireland ?.

YES IF they were involved in violence and terrorism...WHY does a socalled and proclaimed peaceful movement need to consort with people of proven criminal and terrorist records????And it wasnt years ago either it was within the lifetime of alot of people on this board.Fact is the animal rights movement has a violent and dangerous darkside that people involved in it dont like exposed.Would think any sane person living in Ireland would be revolted by having those kind of people in their organisation especially claiming non violent direct action.

Yes because unlike you I am not taking this thread wildly off topic regarding tit for tat allegations.

But you are not refuting them either these "allegations" and you obviously cant back up your other grandiose statements either.You just avoid the issue and go to name calling..Either stand your arguement allegations and insinuations or put up!

So yet again the pro hunting crowd make . Do you have any proof that I am involved in any illegal activity or connected to any Animal Rights groups ?.

Stop trying to make everything personal..There is a please take a number system if you want to use the cross!!
Would you mind quantifying these unsubstantiated allegations
or are you just going to use schoolyard taunts and run away??

Question do YOU PERSONALLY condem outright any violent direct action undertaken by any animal rights group in Ireland or abroad???Or do you support statements made by people like Webb,Vlaseck,et al.That this is a total war and any means including violence,destruction of property and death are justifyable to save a non human life???

Looks like some hunters are hypocrites !

Would you mind quantifying that broad sweeping statement??Or put it in a context of this discussion??:rolleyes:

The African hunters are ususally poachers - but maybe you support the slaughtering of endangered wildlife for money ?

Coming from somone obviously totally UP 100% of anything to do with safaris or ecology ,or the endangerd species list in Africa..[Know what CITES is be chance??]
Know how much one elephant is worth to the local economy of Zimbabwae for example??Yes it is shooting for money,as it is appx worth thirty/fifty thousand US dollars to a bankrupt 3rd world nation which buys a Hell of a lot of oil, grain and meal for the local community,not to mind provide possibly three villages with fresh meat for a week.But it more than likely it just goes to pay Mugabe for a new Mercedes or somthing like that.:(
So yes I do approve of shooting to benefit a resource,a community,a country[in theory] in some of the most poorer countries of the World.

Now,please feel free to pick apart,evade or strawman ..:)

Now finally to get back on topic. Newstalk broadcast a section on Greyhound Racing during the weekend. Lots of fluffy talk about spoilt dogs etc & no mention of the thousands of Greyhounds that are killed by the industry or the hundreds that end up in Pounds or rescues.[/QUOTE

But thats nowhere on topic!!!:)We were discussing a TV programme that you anti fieldsporters were crying foul about ,and YOU took it off topic with grandiose statements that you wont/cant prove about hunters in Ireland going on on various websites about what they would do to anti fieldsporters...Now,again...Go and substantiate your previous allegations ..I dare you,I double dare you to do so!!:D
You would look more creditable and not like you are trying to avoid the issue.

Traonach

Coming from somone obviously totally UP 100% of anything to do with safaris or ecology ,or the endangerd species list in Africa..[Know what CITES is be chance??]
Know how much one elephant is worth to the local economy of Zimbabwae for example??Yes it is shooting for money,as it is appx worth thirty/fifty thousand US dollars to a bankrupt 3rd world nation which buys a Hell of a lot of oil, grain and meal for the local community,not to mind provide possibly three villages with fresh meat for a week.But it more than likely it just goes to pay Mugabe for a new Mercedes or somthing like that.
So yes I do approve of shooting to benefit a resource,a community,a country[in theory] in some of the most poorer countries of the World.

Grizzly45
Due to hunting there is basically no large game left in Zimbabwe....