English High Grade Essay Help

DarraghMcK

Hey guys, this is Darragh, I'm in fifth year atm. I am without bragging, let's say an Above average student in this subject and in general for the most part. I am aiming for high high points and am doing my utmost to achieve this.

However, I'm, I wouldn't say struggling, but finding difficulty in putting my essays together, in terms of achieving the highest grade possible. I would find the whole poetry and play dissection aspect quite awkward in terms of expressing myself if you understand me.

Even with piles of time to prepare, edit, re-edit, I don't seem to be getting the marks I'm looking for. I've tried looking in the books, notes, online, sample essays the teacher gives out and whatnot and it does help.

But what I Really want to see though, if anyone can help, is a tried and tested, absolute A-standard essay, and what exactly is it that makes it so.

What is that something that makes the examiner cream their pants on reading your piece, if you will.

Any help would be appreciated

aranciata

Instead of reading other people's notes, or listening to your teacher's ideas and meditations on Hamlet, I would suggest thinking about poetry and Hamlet independently. Think about characters, poems and themes without an external influence that pushes you into a certain way of thinking. I'm not an examiner, I'm probably the same age as you, but I am stern and adamant in belief that original thoughts and original ideas that standalone from your teachers and classmates would impress a beleaguered examiner more. Learning and regurgitating other people's thoughts and ideas is not a true reflection on your standard of english. Stay away from revision books that suppress our expression and stall and paralyze our own independent thinking. Take some time to really think about the texts and poets you are studying.

DarraghMcK

No no you see I have and do only use my own opinions or ideas, or borrow from things which agree or fit those parameters. I'm constantly getting comments like excellent ideas/expression etc but formatting and tailoring needed.

I've read and re read the material, done further reading, spent a long time pondering and what not, seen and rewatched about 4 different Hamlets' (live and on screen).

I'm not trying to copy or learn and regurgitate stuff. sure I could just look up a thesis statement and claim that as my own if I wanted.

I just want to know how I'm supposed to play this bloody points game, what is the ideal mix between free expression, wild exuberant, thought provoking ideas, and cold clinical analysis, so I can get the degree I want and get out of this ****ty education system as soon as I can

Bbbbolger

It's all about the question asked. Let's take a question from my mock paper this year as an example. It asked to discuss if

Hamlet is a tragic hero and if his mind is a constant battleground.

(in spoiler bracket just in case anyone hasnt done theirs yet). With each individual idea you discuss you must link it to BOTH parts of the question. No matter how original your idea or how excellent your language and grammar is you must bring everything back to the question. Also, it isn't advisable to just add on one or two sentences at the end of each idea explaining how the idea correlates to the question. To get a very good answer you must weave this throughout your answer.
I used to be like you. Always had "great idea" or "well expressed" however I still didnt get the marks I wanted. I had to force myself to consciously think "answer the question" whilst writing an answer. Maybe this isn't exactly the advice you were looking for but perhaps it may put you a little bit more on course.
Also how many ideas do you tend to discuss per answer? Too few and you wont have a wide enough variety to your answer and too many and you won't be able to flesh them out in detail. 3 or 4 seem to be the standard number of developed ideas needed. Also remember to quote/reference scenes/poems etc. constantly! Make sure the examiner knows you have a complete knowledge of what you are writing about. My teacher has told me that examiners hate to see a student with clear talent for written English not know their quotations. It gives the impression of laziness which will remain in their mind whilst correcting.

Violafy

My English teacher is a hard marker and I usually get As from her in Hamlet and Poetry essays.

The Hamlet questions are most difficult to structure out of all the essays, as you could be asked pretty much anything, so it's almost impossible to be able to use a learnt off format - it changes depending on the question. I'd show you an essay of mine that got an A1 but it's handwritten and about 6 pages long - I really don't have time to type it out as I'm in 6th year! Sorry. :P

But I'd recommend the Shortcuts to Success revision book about Hamlet- it has loads of A grade sample answers on both characters and themes.
No matter what the title of the essay is, it's important always to refer back to Hamlet, his madness and revenge etc, even if the essay isn't directly about him.

I've also had it constantly drummed into me to ALWAYS REFER CLOSELY TO THE QUESTION ASKED... Excuse the capitals :P. In each paragraph, make sure you reiterate how the points you make are relevant to the essay's title. But try to use different words, as you'd lose marks for language if you're too repetitive.


About poetry... I find it slightly easier to structure.
Introduction - very brief bit about poet's life only if relevant to question, maybe a quote from the poet which is relevant to question, say that you agree with the essay title etc

For the rest, I usually just deal with a poem per paragraph and write about style, language, theme etc. Again, make sure the poem is relevant to the question. Sometimes I do two poems per paragraph, but discuss the second one more briefly. The second one would usually be to compare to the first.
My teacher advises us to discuss about 6 poems in an essay - 4 in detail and 2 briefly - although I know many others think differently.

Finish with conclusion - reiterate points, use a nice quote to wrap it out.

I'm in 6th year so I don't know which poets you're doing, but the above has worked for me when writing essays on all of the poets we've done.


For all paper 2 essays, examiners like:
-Personal Response/Opinion to strengthen points
-For Hamlet, it's impressive to include quotes from critics to support your own opinions or to contrast something.
-Variety of vocabulary
-Accurate Quotes from poems/Hamlet
-ANSWER THE QUESTION ASKED

I'm sorry about the length of this and I don't even know if it will be helpful to you... I hope it is!

aranciata

Bbbbolger wrote: »

It's all about the question asked. Let's take a question from my mock paper this year as an example. It asked to discuss if

Hamlet is a tragic hero and if his mind is a constant battleground.

(in spoiler bracket just in case anyone hasnt done theirs yet). With each individual idea you discuss you must link it to BOTH parts of the question. No matter how original your idea or how excellent your language and grammar is you must bring everything back to the question. Also, it isn't advisable to just add on one or two sentences at the end of each idea explaining how the idea correlates to the question. To get a very good answer you must weave this throughout your answer.
I used to be like you. Always had "great idea" or "well expressed" however I still didnt get the marks I wanted. I had to force myself to consciously think "answer the question" whilst writing an answer. Maybe this isn't exactly the advice you were looking for but perhaps it may put you a little bit more on course.
Also how many ideas do you tend to discuss per answer? Too few and you wont have a wide enough variety to your answer and too many and you won't be able to flesh them out in detail. 3 or 4 seem to be the standard number of developed ideas needed. Also remember to quote/reference scenes/poems etc. constantly! Make sure the examiner knows you have a complete knowledge of what you are writing about. My teacher has told me that examiners hate to see a student with clear talent for written English not know their quotations. It gives the impression of laziness which will remain in their mind whilst correcting.

I know what you mean, but I choose to answer to a higher power than the examiner. Don't write coldly, analytically and detached from your own personal viewpoint for points at the expense of your own self-expression. Write something worthy of yourself. Everything else is just protocol, man.

DarraghMcK

I actually just did that very question last week. My teacher didn't mark it perse but more critiqued it and analysed. He's a fairly right on sort of guy: Plays nick cave and tom waits from time to time in class to prove a point , complains about how the cold butchering of poems etc is antithesis to the very idea of poetry in itself sort of thing which is just heaven but he's no easy grader I'll tell you that much, and perhaps the grades given out are lower than what one would receive in an official setting, but this would be to encourage constant improvement and whatnot. This does however come with the trouble of (distorting?) the gradient on which these things are Actually marked on.

I did better than expected in that question to be fair. Though slightly more quotation needed. I also (thankfully) no longer go off on tangents which is always good.

I know what is needed in terms of bringing it back to the q, enough quotes, linking paragraphs, etc. What I really came here to find was the correlation of all these things into a (close to) ideal piece, to help me understand what I'm shooting for. You get me?

DarraghMcK

aranciata wrote: »

I know what you mean, but I choose to answer to a higher power than the examiner. Don't write coldly, analytically and detached from your own personal viewpoint for points at the expense of your own self-expression. Write something worthy of yourself. Everything else is just protocol, man.

I've tried that, and been told that its great writing and entertaining, poignant, and every superlative under the sun. But in the remit of the leaving certificate it will be crucified by the examiner, simply because its not what they're looking for.

As much as it pains me, in order to get where I want to I have to put on my strait jacket, sit in the corner, and swallow the bulging, bitter pill that is the CAO points system

Bbbbolger

Exactly. I'd love to write in a style and manner that completely suits me. Unfortunately however, we all have to conform to the standard set down by the Examinations Authority in the persuit of points. I still litter my answers with slightly verbose pieces of "filler rhetoric" as my teacher calls it. Its how I write and how I like to write but I've been told it wont score as well as I want it to. Too late to change now though :rolleyes:

partyatmygaff

The only way to achieve a high grade in English is to ensure the following criteria are met:

1. Varied vocabulary and complex (But not overly so) sentence structures.
2. Thorough understanding of mechanics and the use of interesting syntax
3. In depth knowledge of your prescribed texts and poets. You should know it to the point that you don't need to purposefully learn quotes. They should just come to you naturally. Cold and critical analysis alone will get you nowhere, you need to include a personal element to your work.
4. Your essay structure must be fluid and cohesive. It must be well-organised and structured to the point that there is a steady "flow" throughout the essay that must be maintained.
5. You need to have a certain "flair" in the way you write. That doesn't necessarily mean constantly speaking in verbose and complicated sentences. It's almost ineffable. To put it best, you need to have a certain je ne sais quoi to your writing that will make it stand out from the other few thousand candidates.

DarraghMcK

partyatmygaff wrote: »

The only way to achieve a high grade in English is to ensure the following criteria are met:

1. Varied vocabulary and complex (But not overly so) sentence structures.
2. Thorough understanding of mechanics and the use of interesting syntax
3. In depth knowledge of your prescribed texts and poets. You should know it to the point that you don't need to purposefully learn quotes. They should just come to you naturally. Cold and critical analysis alone will get you nowhere, you need to include a personal element to your work.
4. Your essay structure must be fluid and cohesive. It must be well-organised and structured to the point that there is a steady "flow" throughout the essay that must be maintained.
5. You need to have a certain "flair" in the way you write. That doesn't necessarily mean constantly speaking in verbose and complicated sentences. It's almost ineffable. To put it best, you need to have a certain je ne sais quoi to your writing that will make it stand out from the other few thousand candidates.

Thank you for summarising that for us.

But my main aim is to see an essay I can look at and be told;

This is the topic:
This is the question:
The terms are:
This is the answer I gave:
It is and was marked an A standard piece

DarraghMcK

I mean, its one thing to be told:
A truly great guitarist must be agile, articulate, creative, use interesting and varied technique, original chord progressions and display skillful improvisation and solo abilities, and also a certain tenaciousness, a je ne sais quoi

And to be shown Pul Gilbert or Slash or whomever tearing it up with a 10 minute, mind blowing, balls out awesome improv'ed guitar solo, then have it tabulated so you can see and analyse what it is to truly blend all these aspects into something truly brilliant.

That is the basis of my question in this thread

partyatmygaff

There's little point in looking at sample "A" essays. You need to develop your own writing style. You're only in fifth year and from what seems to be the case, people rarely, if ever, get As during fifth year. Your grade will increase steadily as you progress through the course and refine your writing style.

aranciata

English is a subjective subject and thus, no "standard" A-grade essay can ever be given. Even the best of work - "The Great Gatsby", "Lolita", "Villette" - all have their detractors. Finding an A-grade essay will just influence and certainly compromise your own work.

Violafy

aranciata wrote: »

English is a subjective subject and thus, no "standard" A-grade essay can ever be given. Even the best of work - "The Great Gatsby", "Lolita", "Villette" - all have their detractors. Finding an A-grade essay will just influence and certainly compromise your own work.

Agreed. Reading sample answers written by other people just unnerves me tbh, as I feel like mine aren't good enough or something. Also, if you copy someone else's sample answer in the Leaving Cert, the examiner will probably realise and penalise you strongly.

DarraghMcK

I know I know, I mean, of course my style and skill will develop over the coming year and a bit or whatever that's a given, and I'll be working tirelessly to achieve this.

However, I'm just extremely curious Now as to what precisely qualifies as this standard, what I need to shoot for.

I mean let's face it, personal writing skill and verbosity etc will only get you so far in the exam. They want roast beef and and potatoes. If you give them curry, no matter how delicious or complex it may be, at the end of the day its just not what they're asking for. Its stupid but its how the system works

Someone else out there has to know where I'm coming from

aranciata

Several people in my class who had their mocks sent away and corrected got high marks for plagiarised essays, mostly from unholy revision books (one had the audacity to learn off a paragraph OF MINE and use it!). Disgusting and repugnant behaviour, needless to say, I don't associate myself or speak to these low people, thieves and cheaters.

Violafy

DarraghMcK wrote: »

I know I know, I mean, of course my style and skill will develop over the coming year and a bit or whatever that's a given, and I'll be working tirelessly to achieve this.

However, I'm just extremely curious Now as to what precisely qualifies as this standard, what I need to shoot for.

I mean let's face it, personal writing skill and verbosity etc will only get you so far in the exam. They want roast beef and and potatoes. If you give them curry, no matter how delicious or complex it may be, at the end of the day its just not what they're asking for. Its stupid but its how the system works


Someone else out there has to know where I'm coming from

Did you actually read my post? Buy Shortcuts to Success Hamlet or google "leaving cert english sample essays" or something. Even though it isn't advisable to copy those.

Violafy

aranciata wrote: »

Several people in my class who had their mocks sent away and corrected got high marks for plagiarised essays, mostly from unholy revision books (one had the audacity to learn off a paragraph OF MINE and use it!). Disgusting and repugnant behaviour, needless to say, I don't associate myself or speak to these low people, thieves and cheaters.

That is disgusting, and shows what is wrong with the Leaving Cert system. I hope they don't do nearly as well if they feel the need to copy from another student. :mad:

DarraghMcK

Yes however there is a difference between a work of literature and an analytical style essay within the parameters the Leaving Certificate Exam. They want (mostly) cold hard facts and evidence, presented with a bit of flair and showmanship.

And as I said before I am in NO WAY looking to plagarise Anything I am merely looking to see the standard I must aim for within those parameters.

And as for this point about being influenced and "compromised", do you think any of the great writers just wrote purely off their own bat? No, they read widely from the works of their peers and predecessors, let those ideas stir within their own minds, took in the different styling, the characters etc, and from gaining more of an insight, developed from this their own often, but not always, brilliant works.

I may have gone slightly overboard there but you get my point right?

aranciata

Go and learn off your personal response to the poetry of Eavan Boland from a braindead old-fashioned retiree hack just punching the clock trying to make money of a bestselling revision book. Learn off that essay, spit it out (if you can!), get your A1 in English and do medicine, or law, or business. Just know that you're robbing not-even-blindly the honest and deserving students of English who respect the language.

Violafy

DarraghMcK wrote: »

They want (mostly) cold hard facts and evidence, presented with a bit of flair and showmanship.

"They" also want a personal response and for you to show that you have engaged properly with the text. Facts alone won't get you an A1.

partyatmygaff

DarraghMcK wrote: »

I know I know, I mean, of course my style and skill will develop over the coming year and a bit or whatever that's a given, and I'll be working tirelessly to achieve this.

However, I'm just extremely curious Now as to what precisely qualifies as this standard, what I need to shoot for.

The key to it is to read and write extensively. There's not much else to it.

I mean let's face it, personal writing skill and verbosity etc will only get you so far in the exam.

Verbosity isn't a good thing! Using overly complex language to the point of losing clarity will lose you marks. This brings me on to my next point...

They want roast beef and and potatoes. If you give them curry, no matter how delicious or complex it may be, at the end of the day its just not what they're asking for. Its stupid but its how the system works

I know you're trying to live up to the reputation you set yourself in the first post but to be brutally honest your writing style sounds very forced and contrived. To be constructively critical, it shows a lack of awareness of writing mode. The style of language you should use in forum posts discussing something as technical as this need not be so aesthetic. You don't need to metaphorise what you're saying in technical discussions.

What I'm trying to say overall is that you should not force your writing. It should flow naturally and it should be appropriate to the subject matter in terms of style.

In general, your grammar and vocabulary is very good but there's one tiny thing that I think you're missing. The contraction of "It is" is "It's" with an apostrophe. Little issues of mechanics like that would detract slightly from the overall effect of your otherwise refined writing style.

aranciata

Violafy wrote: »

"They" also want a personal response and for you to show that you have engaged properly with the text. Facts alone won't get you an A1.

Yes exactly! You cannot justify plagiarising an essay by saying you are copying what is fact! English is a different breed of a subject to Biology or Chemistry that are founded on fact, teach fact, and expect you to know and understand what it fact. English cannot be learned off, and yet, it too often is.

aranciata

partyatmygaff wrote: »

The key to it is to read and write extensively. There's not much else to it.

Verbosity isn't a good thing! Using overly complex language to the point of losing clarity will lose you marks. This brings me on to my next point...

I know you're trying to live up to the reputation you set yourself in the first post but to be brutally honest your writing style sounds very forced and contrived. To be constructively critical, it shows a lack of awareness of writing mode. The style of language you should use in forum posts discussing something as technical as this need not be so aesthetic. You don't need to metaphorise what you're saying in technical discussions.

What I'm trying to say overall is that you should not force your writing. It should flow naturally and it should be appropriate to the subject matter in terms of style.

In general, your grammar and vocabulary are very good but there's one tiny thing that I think you're missing. The contraction of "It is" is "It's" with an apostrophe. Little issues of mechanics like that would detract slightly from the overall effect of your otherwise refined writing style.

Yes and leave the food imagery to someone who can use it more effectively, please. Do you want your writing to sound homely and comforting? Are you channeling Eavan Boland in "This Moment"? I don't even like Eavan Boland's poetry so you should take that as a grave, grave insult, old sport.

Violafy

aranciata wrote: »

Yes and leave the food imagery to someone who can use it more effectively, please. Do you want your writing to sound homely and comforting? Are you channeling Eavan Boland in "This Moment"? I don't even like Eavan Boland's poetry so you should take that as a grave, grave insult, old sport.

Lol. I presume you're in 6th year? Boland is alright I think - when compared to the likes of Hopkins. :mad: I wrote about Frost in the mocks, and have my fingers crossed that he'll come up again in June.

DarraghMcK

Hey hold on their a second. Please do not bundle me in with those sorts of people. I have never ONCE in my life come even Close to doing anything of that sort. All of my essays are my own, and even to my own demise on occasion I have studied minimally my previous essays before an exam, preferring to let the temporal flow do its work. this worked fine and dandy in the junior cert but I am finding as time goes on this works less and less and is a risky thing to do, so I am, for the betterment of myself trying to come into a more rigid, acceptable style while Attempting to maintain my individuality.
Unfortunately, and I am getting sick of sounding like a broken record, the leaving cert is not so accomodating, it is dog eat dog, cut and thrust, and I want to mould, to pear back my own style, to suit this system.
It is, and has been for a long time, been my ambition to become a doctor, not some elitist, "oh medicine is the highest so I'll do that to satisfy my ever inflating ego" quest, but to be like my mother, uncle, and other people I know, to work to help people, and to study the intricacies of the human body, and the treatment of illnesses.

however, the only way they will allow you to do this is through these archaic, arbitrary examinations! and unfortunately one must play this game to win the prize.

I apologise if I gave the impression of some mindless bookwork, or a lazy idiot looking for an easy way out, I assure you I am neither of these things.

I should have mentioned before, what I am lookign to see could be on Any topic within any year of the L.C or Mocks, I just want to see the Sort of thing I will be required to come out with come June 2012

aranciata

Violafy wrote: »

Lol. I presume you're in 6th year? Boland is alright I think - when compared to the likes of Hopkins. :mad: I wrote about Frost in the mocks, and have my fingers crossed that he'll come up again in June.

I happen to love and adore Hopkins, in the past year he's influenced the books I read (Nabakov) and even the music I listen to (Joanna Newsom, Laura Marling!). His balance of theme and technique, and the way they're often so interchangeable is somehow comforting to me. It shows me that sometimes English isn't about the content, which encourages me to write when I feel like I have nothing to say!

Violafy

DarraghMcK wrote: »

I should have mentioned before, what I am lookign to see could be on Any topic within any year of the L.C or Mocks, I just want to see the Sort of thing I will be required to come out with come June 2012

I told you twice where you could find plenty of Hamlet A1 sample essays, and yet again, you've ignored it. Do you expect us to type out our own essays for you or something? On that note, I'm going to bed.

aranciata

DarraghMcK wrote: »

Hey hold on their a second. Please do not bundle me in with those sorts of people. I have never ONCE in my life come even Close to doing anything of that sort. All of my essays are my own, and even to my own demise on occasion I have studied minimally my previous essays before an exam, preferring to let the temporal flow do its work. this worked fine and dandy in the junior cert but I am finding as time goes on this works less and less and is a risky thing to do, so I am, for the betterment of myself trying to come into a more rigid, acceptable style while Attempting to maintain my individuality.
Unfortunately, and I am getting sick of sounding like a broken record, the leaving cert is not so accomodating, it is dog eat dog, cut and thrust, and I want to mould, to pear back my own style, to suit this system.
It is, and has been for a long time, been my ambition to become a doctor, not some elitist, "oh medicine is the highest so I'll do that to satisfy my ever inflating ego" quest, but to be like my mother, uncle, and other people I know, to work to help people, and to study the intricacies of the human body, and the treatment of illnesses.

however, the only way they will allow you to do this is through these archaic, arbitrary examinations! and unfortunately one must play this game to win the prize.

I apologise if I gave the impression of some mindless bookwork, or a lazy idiot looking for an easy way out, I assure you I am neither of these things.

I should have mentioned before, what I am lookign to see could be on Any topic within any year of the L.C or Mocks, I just want to see the Sort of thing I will be required to come out with come June 2012

Can I just say before I finish reading your post that I TOTALLY CALLED THIS LIKE THREE POSTS AGO! It's always the medicine, law and business types looking for this kind of quick fix. It's funny, you're almost self-diagnosing yourself and asking us for a cure. Sorry for the heavy-handed metaphor (though rather suitable I thought myself). Maybe you shouldn't be focusing all your efforts into English, work on your Biology and Chemistry?

DarraghMcK

Well obviously I'm not too concerned about my grammar in terms of it's and its and what ever in this forum, nor could you necessarily compare my style of writing here to within an essay format.

And also I do know the meaning of verbosity, it just sort of came out in light of not having another word for "articulate" on hand, and also due to having 3 or 4 exchanges going at the same time.

I must say though you have been the most helpful of the contributors here and I'd like to thank you for that.

And yeah reading back I have to say some of my lines are more than a little pretentious. I started the thread on the back of doing a "Hamlet is a noble hero" essay and kinda left myself half in whimsical writer mode