Kids and guns in south Armagh

danbohan

KeithAFC wrote: »

Already explained that. The UVF did have better uniforms than the IRA. The UVF also had proper drills and discipline. But that isn't the point about this thread.

ogh yes , killing innocent catholics requires loads of discipline.

KeithAFC

danbohan wrote: »

ogh yes , killing innocent catholics requires loads of discipline.

In terms of the footage in the prisons, yeah. Can't condone the killings.

Iwasfrozen

danbohan wrote: »

ogh yes , killing innocent catholics requires loads of discipline.

The IRA killed more catholics then the UVF.

FTA69

KeithAFC wrote: »

Why do you have to bring up the British army and UVF to condone this?

I'm not condoning it, I'm pointing out your (and Frazer's) blatant and utter hypocrisy in engaging in this faux-outrage while having no problem with militaristic displays elsewhere.

In terms of the footage in the prisons, yeah. Can't condone the killings.

Ha! The recent manifestations of Loyalist paramilitarism and discipline are mutually exclusive concepts; their entire raison d'etre as organisations were to murder innocent Catholics in order to pressurise the IRA into ceasing its campaign. It was as a result of this line of thinking that the UVF produced killers such as the Shankill Butchers whose MO was to drive into Nationalist areas and slash people to death with butcher knives for no other reason than they lived in a particular area. And this is an organisation that you say was "disciplined"? A crowd who couldn't even scratch a vote in their own communities due to their love of racketeering, flaboyant displays of wealth and participation in the drug trade?

Again, if you want to support Loyalist paramilitaries that's your own business, but save us the outrage over a youngfella with a plastic gun when you're lauding actual thugs who used actual guns to murder actual human beings.

KeithAFC

The Shankill butchers got taken out by the UVF anyway with a tip to the IRA to do it. You perhaps didn't read what i said.

I said the UVF had actual disciplined drills in prison. I didn't say the killing was right.

Poccington

KeithAFC wrote: »

The Shankill butchers got taken out by the UVF anyway with a tip to the IRA to do it. You perhaps didn't read what i said.

I said the UVF had actual disciplined drills in prison. I didn't say the killing was right.

In Portlaoise, the IRA had disciplined drills since back in the Troubles to this day.

LordSutch

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

What army terrorist doesn't murder people horrifically? To those people the IRA were the legitimate army of their country. You can argue with that of course but there is no point trying to make out that one soldier's murder is more righteous than another's, paarticularly to their victims.

Well, this helps to back up my post on page one, once posters start arguing that 'the IRA were the Army', then you really know who you are speaking to. There are two armies on this island, one is the British army with bases in UK portion of this island, and then you have the Irish defence force who are the legitimate army of the Republic of Ireland. The PIRA on the other hand were a terrorist outfit, they were scum of the highest order, and trying to pretend that "they were the army" is clearly obnoxious to the rest of us, specially those who lost loved ones, and those of us who didn't support what they did in the name of the Irish people during the troubles.

Dressing children up in IRA uniforms while sporting AK47s is no joking matter, and it should be condemned by everybody, without hesitation.

wee truck big driver

Denerick wrote: »

I make the following prediction:

This thread will last for over a 100 pages.

Incessant whataboutery will take place.

The 1918 general election will be invoked by one party, debated by the other, and ignored by the other.

We've had this debate before.

so dont get involved or can you not control yourself

dlofnep

LordSutch wrote: »

and trying to pretend that "they were the army" is clearly obnoxious to the rest of us, specially those who lost loved ones

Conversely, the nationalist community might find it equally obnoxious for military parades to take place in the north to honour an army that was responsible for the slaughter of a hundreds of people from their community.

The British army were most certainly not the legitimate and are not the legitimate army for almost half of the population in the north.

wee truck big driver

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Comparing owning an action man to dressing up as a paramilitary is stupid. I'm sorry, but it is. And I hope for your sake I don't have to explain why.

so dressing up as britsh soliders who are currently killing innocent people in a country just to get their hands on its oil is ok. but to dress up as brave soliders who fought to free their country is not ok. as far back as time in memorial children dressed up as soliders, cowboys etc. its not reality not something to get overly excited about. as for willie he has some good videos on you tube even the ones that not supposed to be funny are

paky

junder wrote: »

How many times have we seen images of young children brandishing ak47s in far flung places as Africa and the middle east, how would you feel to see young children brandishing ak47s on the same island as were you live.



"Children have appeared dressed up as republican paramilitaries and brandishing replica guns in a south Armagh community centre which has received hundreds of thousands of pounds in EU funds.
The children, some of primary school age, were photographed at the Ti Chulainn cultural centre in Mullaghbawn.
They were wearing balaclavas, combat jackets and trousers, dark glasses and berets, and brandishing replica weapons including AK47s and Armalites.
A complaint has been made to the Children’s Commissioner Patricia Lewsley. The PSNI will also be asked to investigate.
Despite several telephone calls and written questions submitted by the Belfast Telegraph, no-one from the Ti Chulainn centre would comment on the matter.
The photographs were posted on a social networking website by a Lurgan Sinn Fein member. It is understood they were taken at the centre six months ago. Appalled members of the public who saw the pictures contacted IRA victims’ group Fair and the TUV.
The Children’s Commissioner confirmed that Fair director Willie Frazer yesterday lodged a complaint with her office.
Mr Frazer said: “I was told the office’s legal department will investigate. I was also advised to report the matter to the PSNI.” Mr Frazer said that while the photographs insulted victims of IRA violence, they raised wider issues: “People bereaved or injured by terrorism are insulted by these photographs.
The Ti Chulainn centre has benefited from local and international public funding. The Special EU Programmes Body (SEUPB) has confirmed a previous award of £42,000 and a current award of £264,500 to the centre for “specific tourist-related activity”.
DUP MEP Diane Dodds yesterday held an urgent meeting with the SEUPB. She said: “As a result of our meeting, SEUPB is now developing a code of conduct for all organisations to sign up to in order to secure funding. Not only is there a child protection issue, but there’s also an issue of incitement to terrorism. I wouldn’t be surprised if this matter ends up with police.”
The TUV’s Barrie Halliday said: “We’re constantly being told to forget the past as Northern Ireland has moved into a new era. These disgusting photographs show that to be lies.”
Local UUP MLA Danny Kennedy said: “Those who organised this event and those who hosted it need to seriously question themselves.”


http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ne...-15121827.html


http://i53.tinypic.com/j6lj4n.jpg


http://i55.tinypic.com/2ep0aab.jpg

http://i51.tinypic.com/207nxh4.jpg


Remind you of anything


http://holyfalafel.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/terrorist-kids.jpg

http://www.manyriversfilms.co.uk/assets/images/services/child_hamas_192.jpg

so what? fare play to them. they should be made aware of irelands long struggle against british tyranny.

what discusts me is tesco selling 'action man' in a tank with HM Armed Forces labeled all over the box. what the hell are they doing selling that s.hit in ireland? brainwashing kids perhaps?

wee truck big driver

KeithAFC wrote: »

Indeed it is. I find it truly amazing how anyone can actually try to defend it. And the IRA killed more catholics than the British army did.

LIES

wee truck big driver

KeithAFC wrote: »

As a passive joke to just how silly it is to allow those kids to put those uniforms on. I would not like to see young loyalist kids wearing the UVF uniform. I'd like to think we have more dignity and we know our identity to not have to do that.

surely if the uvf where wearing a uniform it would be easier for the police to identify who was suppling the children with drugs unless they are still collaborating for a percentage

paky

wee truck big driver

KeithAFC wrote: »

How do you know that? They have basically been told about the IRA in glorified terms. That is dangerous.

its hard not to talk about them in glorified terms when you consider that a couple of thousand brave men and women. where able to put the fear of god into one of the biggest and richest armies in the world and forced them into submission not long now till a 32 county ireland maybe you wil have to dig you oul uvf uniform out keith

KeithAFC

wee truck big driver wrote: »

its hard not to talk about them in glorified terms when you consider that a couple of thousand brave men and women. where able to put the fear of god into one of the biggest and richest armies in the world and forced them into submission not long now till a 32 county ireland maybe you wil have to dig you oul uvf uniform out keith

Why reply with such nonsense? I mean, i really worry if anyone believes such nonsense.

wee truck big driver

LordSutch wrote: »

Well, this helps to back up my post on page one, once posters start arguing that 'the IRA were the Army', then you really know who you are speaking to. There are two armies on this island, one is the British army with bases in UK portion of this island, and then you have the Irish defence force who are the legitimate army of the Republic of Ireland. The PIRA on the other hand were a terrorist outfit, they were scum of the highest order, and trying to pretend that "they were the army" is clearly obnoxious to the rest of us, specially those who lost loved ones, and those of us who didn't support what they did in the name of the Irish people during the troubles.

Dressing children up in IRA uniforms while sporting AK47s is no joking matter, and it should be condemned by everybody, without hesitation.

but they where a real army fighting for a just cause. while the britsh army is made up of scumbags with no education or prospect of anybody ever giving them a job its also an easy way of staying out of jail and still being able to do the things they love the most. hanging around in gangs an bullying people who arent in a position to stand up for themselves. some times i think the british goverment sends thes halfwits to iraq just to get rid of them if they die its stops them breeding and filling concil estates with even more low lifes who will spend their life on benifits draining resources for the upper classes

wee truck big driver

KeithAFC wrote: »

Why reply with such nonsense? I mean, i really worry if anyone believes such nonsense.

you have nothing to worry about you will have just as many rights as anybody else regardless of religous beliefs in the neww 32 county ireland in fact as a unionist your t.ds will have a lot bigger percentage of sway than your m.ps have in westminister.

wee truck big driver

charlemont wrote: »

Iv a great idea, A South Armagh Sniper action man...

they could cal him eamon wright

wee truck big driver

KeithAFC wrote: »

The same resistence will be shown by the loyalist people as it was in the 70s, 80s and 90s. But that is kind of taking the thread off topic as to what is a rather shocking set of photos, i must say.

whats that random killing of catholics surely it wont be as easy without the help and support of the police and army

junder

wee truck big driver wrote: »

its hard not to talk about them in glorified terms when you consider that a couple of thousand brave men and women. where able to put the fear of god into one of the biggest and richest armies in the world and forced them into submission not long now till a 32 county ireland maybe you wil have to dig you oul uvf uniform out keith

The beat the British into submission by surrendering thier weapons and administrating British rule in northern ireland, aye mate dead on. The pira was never an army, under the international law of armed conflict the pira is not even defined as a guerilla group it is defined as a terrorists organisation

KeithAFC

wee truck big driver wrote: »

whats that random killing of catholics surely it wont be as easy without the help and support of the police and army

They will be fighting the police this time, you would imagine. And the fight against the IRA.

paky

KeithAFC wrote: »

They will be fighting the police this time, you would imagine. And the fight against the IRA.

there wont be any fighten on their behalf. theyll be put to the sword before that happens

KeithAFC

paky wrote: »

there wont be any fighten on their behalf. theyll be put to the sword before that happens

The UVF is still around.

wee truck big driver

junder wrote: »

The beat the British into submission by surrendering thier weapons and administrating British rule in northern ireland, aye mate dead on. The pira was never an army, under the international law of armed conflict the pira is not even defined as a guerilla group it is defined as a terrorists organisation

an organisation acknowledged as the best in the world feared by some and held in admiration by even more as for surrendering there weapons i think the old bags of fertiliser or still available. anyhow the ira only called a ceasefire when the british goverment promised to withdraw form ireland see the truth is the british goverment dont now or ever have cared about the unionists. the slow rate of withdrawal is not for the unionists benifit it is poorly to try and save face (a sort of effort to pretend that they are giving the six counties back because its right and not because they where beat)

wee truck big driver

KeithAFC wrote: »

They will be fighting the police this time, you would imagine. And the fight against the IRA.

they where afraid to fight the ira when they had the police and british army backing them up cant see them getting the bravery and intelligence to put up any sort of resistance

wee truck big driver

junder wrote: »

The beat the British into submission by surrendering thier weapons and administrating British rule in northern ireland, aye mate dead on. The pira was never an army, under the international law of armed conflict the pira is not even defined as a guerilla group it is defined as a terrorists organisation

the ira couldnt give a flying fcuk about international law. if international law was worth a fcuk they would have made the brits get out of ireland years ago

Bottle_of_Smoke

LordSutch wrote: »

Well, this helps to back up my post on page one, once posters start arguing that 'the IRA were the Army', then you really know who you are speaking to. There are two armies on this island, one is the British army with bases in UK portion of this island, and then you have the Irish defence force who are the legitimate army of the Republic of Ireland. The PIRA on the other hand were a terrorist outfit, they were scum of the highest order, and trying to pretend that "they were the army" is clearly obnoxious to the rest of us, specially those who lost loved ones, and those of us who didn't support what they did in the name of the Irish people during the troubles.

Dressing children up in IRA uniforms while sporting AK47s is no joking matter, and it should be condemned by everybody, without hesitation.

That wasn't my point. As I said to those people they were the legitimate army. Therefore talking about horrific deaths is pointless because what is considered to be the legitimate army has caused just as many horrific deaths and they are constantly glorified.

sanbrafyffe

junder wrote: »

The beat the British into submission by surrendering thier weapons and administrating British rule in northern ireland, aye mate dead on. The pira was never an army, under the international law of armed conflict the pira is not even defined as a guerilla group it is defined as a terrorists organisation

guerilla to the back bone.thats why they have trained the likes of the taliban,farc extremists, the eta group idolised them and the mafia admitted they would never mess with them

KeithAFC

sanbrafyffe wrote: »

guerilla to the back bone.thats why they have trained the likes of the taliban,farc extremists, the eta group idolised them and the mafia admitted they would never mess with them

I'd love to be able to say i trained great people like the Taliban. :rolleyes:

sanbrafyffe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGJWiGOTZmY

junder

sanbrafyffe wrote: »

guerilla to the back bone.thats why they have trained the likes of the taliban,farc extremists, the eta group idolised them and the mafia admitted they would never mess with them

Idolised by not only illegal but some of the mosr murderous organisations, that's really something to boost about :rolleyes: so let's pretend the ira did indeed train these groups, that would make the ira directly and indirectly responsable for the deaths of thousands of people across the globe caused untold misery for thousands more.

wee truck big driver

junder wrote: »

Idolised by not only illegal but some of the mosr murderous organisations, that's really something to boost about :rolleyes: so let's pretend the ira did indeed train these groups, that would make the ira directly and indirectly responsable for the deaths of thousands of people across the globe caused untold misery for thousands more.

and still only a tiny fraction of those mrdered by the british army

danbohan

junder wrote: »

Idolised by not only illegal but some of the mosr murderous organisations, that's really something to boost about :rolleyes: so let's pretend the ira did indeed train these groups, that would make the ira directly and indirectly responsable for the deaths of thousands of people across the globe caused untold misery for thousands more.

directly and indirectly responsable for the deaths of thousands of people across the globe caused untold misery for thousands more.

could that be possible , lets do a head count , IRA and its associates vs the army of the most inhumane and murderous empire the world has ever known .

i have to admit the IRA lose out here , big time

getz

maccored wrote: »

It is not a naive thing to ask.

On plenty of occasions, the RUC werent too interested in stopping anti social behaviour and muggings in the nationalist community, whereas people could turn to the IRA to literally keep the peace in their own communities. Of course people in certain areas looked up to them.

the IRA stopping ant-social behaviour are you sure you are not talking about dublin or cork ?if any one wishes to see men dressed in hitler uniforms just walk down to the pleasure beech in blackpool,its full of people doing daft things on day trips.

maccored

getz wrote: »

the IRA stopping ant-social behaviour are you sure you are not talking about dublin or cork ?

Im quite sure Im not talking about dublin or cork.

JayEnnis

I don't know if this has been brought up but has anyone thought that maybe they play airsoft and all this has been taken out of context? Just a suggestion.

sanbrafyffe

junder wrote: »

Idolised by not only illegal but some of the mosr murderous organisations, that's really something to boost about :rolleyes: so let's pretend the ira did indeed train these groups, that would make the ira directly and indirectly responsable for the deaths of thousands of people across the globe caused untold misery for thousands more.

you have it wrong.they were needed for there skills and military methods to help forces deal with occupation in there country

sanbrafyffe

wee truck big driver wrote: »

they where afraid to fight the ira when they had the police and british army backing them up cant see them getting the bravery and intelligence to put up any sort of resistance

thats quiet true.they dont have what it takes.the IRA did

Nodin

junder wrote: »

............... Appalled members of the public who saw the pictures contacted IRA victims’ group Fair and the TUV.
The Children’s Commissioner confirmed that Fair director Willie Frazer yesterday lodged a complaint with her office.
...............

Good oul Willie "under investigation" Frazer, that shining symbol of hands across the sectarian divide. If there'd been a red hand on that balaclava, Willie would have been on asking where he could get one.

Tenger

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

While I would question the taste, it is just kids playing with toy guns when all is said and done. We all did it. What exactly will the cops be expected to do?

I don't think it can be called 'just kids playing with toy guns'

When I was a kid I used plastic toy guns or sticks as my weapon and I never had access to balaclavas or combat jackets!!!

Bottle_of_Smoke

Tenger wrote: »

I don't think it can be called 'just kids playing with toy guns'

When I was a kid I used plastic toy guns or sticks as my weapon and I never had access to balaclavas or combat jackets!!!

Your parents obviously didn't love you.

southsiderosie

wee truck big driver wrote: »

and still only a tiny fraction of those mrdered by the british army

sanbrafyffe wrote: »

you have it wrong.they were needed for there skills and military methods to help forces deal with occupation in there country

Do you really think rural farmers in Colombia give a **** about the actions of the British empire? The IRA helped the FARC, an organization that made Colombia a living hell for huge swathes of the population who were quite often the poorest in society - the very people on whose behalf the FARC claimed to act. Until the Iraq war, Colombia had the highest levels of internal displacement in the world.

Take off your rose-colored glasses. The IRA collaborated with groups abroad who committed gross human rights violations and were ruthless killers of innocent people. You can shriek about the British Army all you want, but two wrongs don't make a right, and even if the scale of IRA misdeeds is less than the BA's, that does not make them any less atrocious.

junder

sanbrafyffe wrote: »

guerilla to the back bone.thats why they have trained the likes of the taliban,farc extremists, the eta group idolised them and the mafia admitted they would never mess with them

So was it the ira that taught the taliban how to treat women?

sanbrafyffe

junder wrote: »

So was it the ira that taught the taliban how to treat women?

no how to be as effective as them

junder

sanbrafyffe wrote: »

no how to be as effective as them

You will be telling the ira trained al Qaeda next :rolleyes:

Nodin

sanbrafyffe wrote: »

no how to be as effective as them

In your universe, do Ireland do better or worse in the football?

dlofnep

junder wrote: »

You will be telling the ira trained al Qaeda next :rolleyes:

No, that was the United States.

KeithAFC

sanbrafyffe wrote: »

you have it wrong.they were needed for there skills and military methods to help forces deal with occupation in there country

So they trained the Taliban? An organisation which beheads women, gays and all sorts and likes to strap themselves to TnT and blow themselves up. I'd rather jump off a huge cliff than train those lot.

dlofnep

KeithAFC wrote: »

So they trained the Taliban? An organisation which beheads women, gays and all sorts and likes to strap themselves to TnT and blow themselves up. I'd rather jump off a huge cliff than train those lot.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/revealed-british-plan-to-build-training-camp-for-taliban-fighters-in-afghanistan-777671.html