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Youths Rugby

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,014 ✭✭✭shaungil



    A change to Leinster competition age grades next year.

    No under 19’s but an under 18’s with age cut off after 1st July 1997 and all of 1998.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    shaungil wrote: »
    A change to Leinster competition age grades next year.

    No under 19’s but an under 18’s with age cut off after 1st July 1997 and all of 1998.
    Interesting theyre going back to 18.5s. That will be the same as Connacht had this season at 18s. Will they be keeping 17s, 15s as main age groups below that?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,014 ✭✭✭shaungil


    Interesting theyre going back to 18.5s. That will be the same as Connacht had this season at 18s. Will they be keeping 17s, 15s as main age groups below that?
    Seems to be like that. For some clubs it's not a great solution putting guys into adult rugby at a point where a lot drop out. not all clubs field 20's.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    shaungil wrote: »
    Seems to be like that. For some clubs it's not a great solution putting guys into adult rugby at a point where a lot drop out. not all clubs field 20's.
    Is it not? Players will be playing adult grade a season earlier and possibly while in final year of secondary school. Potentially should that not help keep them playing.
    What would you have as an alternative if not this?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,014 ✭✭✭shaungil



    I guess every club and even different opinions within clubs.

    As a parent I’d prefer my child not playing adult rugby until they’re ready for the level they are playing at. I know people will say I played under 18’s and senior rugby (as I did) and it did me no harm but I would prefer not to see it now.

    It’s also difficult for a team who have played together for 12 or 13 yeears to find out now that next season half of them will be no longer eligible.

    In my own club the 19’s structure has served us well and since we’ve introduced it the number of players staying on playing for longer has increased. While it’s probably multifactorial that numbers have increased keeping lads who are friends playing together anecdotally has been key.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    shaungil wrote: »
    I guess every club and even different opinions within clubs.

    As a parent I’d prefer my child not playing adult rugby until they’re ready for the level they are playing at. I know people will say I played under 18’s and senior rugby (as I did) and it did me no harm but I would prefer not to see it now.

    It’s also difficult for a team who have played together for 12 or 13 yeears to find out now that next season half of them will be no longer eligible.

    In my own club the 19’s structure has served us well and since we’ve introduced it the number of players staying on playing for longer has increased. While it’s probably multifactorial that numbers have increased keeping lads who are friends playing together anecdotally has been key.
    No doubt clubs will have different opinions and opinions within clubs will differ but majority(as that's what would have been needed for change) feel otherwise.
    I was playing adult rugby at 17 and could have played the odd game at 16 if I really wanted. When you say senior rugby what level you referring to and around what time. I don't see too much of an issue of teams changing. Teams wont have been totally together the last 12-13 years as there has been several changes in the age groups over this time frame from changes of age eligibility date from middle to start of year, primary age groups moving from 14/16/18 to 13/15/17/19 etc etc

    The 19s structure may have served your club well but its clear from decisions made across the country over the past few years that it didn't serve youths rugby across the country that well in general bar some exceptions


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,014 ✭✭✭shaungil


    thinking back i was playing J1 to j3 as a seventeen year old. second row and back row. Was looked after by the elder lemons. early 90's It was a different time tho. Possibly different positions were safer than others. True about the the age changes already but just stop changing it. Make a decision and stick with it.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    What I don't understand is why the age groups are different across the provinces..

    Munster is still calendar year and will have every age group up to U16 , then goes to U18's and U20's..

    Why are they different?


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    What I don't understand is why the age groups are different across the provinces..

    Munster is still calendar year and will have every age group up to U16 , then goes to U18's and U20's..

    Why are they different?
    Traditionally the date of eligibility was July 1st as that fits in the season. The changes were made as it was thought it was better and would help keep people playing. All provinces initially changed to January 1st as the date and the main age groups changed from 14s/16s/18s to 15s/17s/19s. However under 19s became troublesome with less clubs able to field at that age group with some players in the age group 18 years of age and eligible for adult rugby etc
    Each province over the past few seasons has been picking and choosing depending on what they see as best for the clubs/schools in their province.

    With the changes now next season will see Connacht and Leinster having the same age groups. Competitions at under 13/14/15/16/17 all with age eligibility of January 1st and u18 which is essentially u18.5 with eligibility based on July 1st.
    Munster will have under 13/14/15/16/18 all January 1st while in Ulster the date is July 1st for under 14/16/18


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Interpros start this weekend
    Leinster v Munster in Donnybrook and Ulster v Connacht in Rainey Old Boys, Magherafelt
    Leinster and Munster squads listed below
    http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/domestic/13989.php#.VemQlk3bLcs


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Last weekends results
    Leinster 29 Munster 21
    Ulster 8 Connacht 15

    This weekends fixtures and teams named so far
    Munster v Connacht in CIT, Cork
    Ulster v Leinster in Ravenhill

    Munster
    Jordan Higgins (Shannon); Timmy Phelan (Dolphin), Maurice Daly (Dungarvan, David McCarthy (C) (Skibbereen), Ethan Greene (Kinsale); Alex Molloy (Waterpark), Finn Rhys Thomas (Dungarvan); Luke Jordan (Dolphin), Tadgh McCarthy (Bantry Bay), Pat Casey (Bantry Bay), Colin Deane (Clonakilty), Jack Nolan (Waterpark), Dev Murphy (Waterpark), Jack Daly (Castleisland), Odhran Ring (Bruff)

    Replacements: Derry Gleeson (Garryowen), Josh Whycherley (Bantry Bay), Darragh O'Shea (Newcastle West/Estuary), Evan Carroll (Young Munster), Shane O'Neill (Killorglin), Conor Ferns (Young Munster), Conor Hayes (Young Muster), Colm McSweeney (Newcastle West/Estuary)

    Ulster
    Shay McLaughlin (Randalstown RFC), Matthew Coulter (Ballyclare RFC), Paul Mullen (Armagh RFC), Oisin Kiernan (Virginia RFC), John McCusker (Rainey OB RFC), Joseph Dunleavey (Letterkenny RFC), Barry Finn (Armagh RFC), Aaron Hall (Ballyclare RFC, captain), William Holden (Portadown RFC), Cormac Fox (Armagh RFC), Michael Savage (Monaghan RFC), Daniel Faulkner (Letterkenny RFC), Michael O'Neill (Rainey OB RFC), Callum O'Hagan (City of Derry RFC), Peter Scott (Letterkenny RFC)
    Replacements:
    Philip Ewing (Omagh RFC), Aaron Kennedy (Armagh RFC), Michael Gordon (Virginia RFC), Elliot Forbes (Dromore RFC), Dylan Tighe (Virginia RFC), Jac Lloyd-Evans (Rainey RFC), Niall McKeating (Malone RFC), Ronan Patterson (Virginia RFC)


  • Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭gazump123


    Last weekends results
    Leinster 29 Munster 21
    Ulster 8 Connacht 15

    This weekends fixtures and teams named so far
    Munster v Connacht in CIT, Cork
    Ulster v Leinster in Ravenhill

    Munster
    Jordan Higgins (Shannon); Timmy Phelan (Dolphin), Maurice Daly (Dungarvan, David McCarthy (C) (Skibbereen), Ethan Greene (Kinsale); Alex Molloy (Waterpark), Finn Rhys Thomas (Dungarvan); Luke Jordan (Dolphin), Tadgh McCarthy (Bantry Bay), Pat Casey (Bantry Bay), Colin Deane (Clonakilty), Jack Nolan (Waterpark), Dev Murphy (Waterpark), Jack Daly (Castleisland), Odhran Ring (Bruff)

    Replacements: Derry Gleeson (Garryowen), Josh Whycherley (Bantry Bay), Darragh O'Shea (Newcastle West/Estuary), Evan Carroll (Young Munster), Shane O'Neill (Killorglin), Conor Ferns (Young Munster), Conor Hayes (Young Muster), Colm McSweeney (Newcastle West/Estuary)

    Ulster
    Shay McLaughlin (Randalstown RFC), Matthew Coulter (Ballyclare RFC), Paul Mullen (Armagh RFC), Oisin Kiernan (Virginia RFC), John McCusker (Rainey OB RFC), Joseph Dunleavey (Letterkenny RFC), Barry Finn (Armagh RFC), Aaron Hall (Ballyclare RFC, captain), William Holden (Portadown RFC), Cormac Fox (Armagh RFC), Michael Savage (Monaghan RFC), Daniel Faulkner (Letterkenny RFC), Michael O'Neill (Rainey OB RFC), Callum O'Hagan (City of Derry RFC), Peter Scott (Letterkenny RFC)
    Replacements:
    Philip Ewing (Omagh RFC), Aaron Kennedy (Armagh RFC), Michael Gordon (Virginia RFC), Elliot Forbes (Dromore RFC), Dylan Tighe (Virginia RFC), Jac Lloyd-Evans (Rainey RFC), Niall McKeating (Malone RFC), Ronan Patterson (Virginia RFC)

    Young enough Munster u18 clubs team. 7 of the squad are u17 I think, only 2 starting though.

    EDIT: The players in bold are all u17 I think.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    gazump123 wrote: »
    Young enough Munster u18 clubs team. 7 of the squad are u17 I think, only 2 starting though.
    That's slightly higher than usual but interesting to see. A lot of the guys who are under 17s play for Waterpark or Dungarvan, both of whom were in the Pan Munster under 16 final last season. Daly, Molloy, Rhys Thomas, Dev Murphy, Nolan all played in that under 16 final last March.


  • Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭gazump123


    That's slightly higher than usual but interesting to see. A lot of the guys who are under 17s play for Waterpark or Dungarvan, both of whom were in the Pan Munster under 16 final last season. Daly, Molloy, Rhys Thomas, Dev Murphy, Nolan all played in that under 16 final last March.

    Just after highlighting the u17s. Think there were a few more on the reserves as well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    gazump123 wrote: »
    Just after highlighting the u17s. Think there were a few more on the reserves as well.
    Again Young Munster were freakishly strong at under 16s last season. I saw them put 60+ on several sides during the year

    Any thoughts on the changes to the Munster under 16 and 18 leagues for this season?
    Should help get more sides fielding.. hopefully it does anyway


  • Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭gazump123


    Again Young Munster were freakishly strong at under 16s last season. I saw them put 60+ on several sides during the year

    Any thoughts on the changes to the Munster under 16 and 18 leagues for this season?
    Should help get more sides fielding.. hopefully it does anyway

    Yea they were very good. Nowhere near as strong this year though at u16. I believe their out half from the Pan Munster final got a Glenstal scholarship. They have a few more on the Munster u17s squad as well.

    The changes suit my club anyways. Less distance to travel so should be more enticing to new players. Also like the way they will have 3 different Pan Munster competitions based on league performances. More game time for teams at a level where they should be able to compete.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Again Young Munster were freakishly strong at under 16s last season. I saw them put 60+ on several sides during the year

    Any thoughts on the changes to the Munster under 16 and 18 leagues for this season?
    Should help get more sides fielding.. hopefully it does anyway

    Hopefully..But not looking good..

    Certainly in North Munster , lots of side amalgamating at U16 and a few have scrubbed completely due to players likely involvement in Jnr Cup.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    Hopefully..But not looking good..

    Certainly in North Munster, lots of side amalgamating at U16 and a few have scrubbed completely due to players likely involvement in Jnr Cup.
    Lots of sides amalgamating isn't an issue. The schools are always an issue in Limerick/North Munster. Never a season goes by without some sort of issue between clubs and schools
    Clubs amalgamating at 16s is a good thing. Teams will still be playing and players will still get games.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Leinster won 18s clubs interpros today
    Super game. Leinster have the biggest team ive seen in a long time at 18s level especially in the backs with likes of Nash, O Brien et al.
    Bodes well for 18 international games this year from the 2 games ive seen
    Also saw part of the Munster Connacht 19s game.. decent game from what I saw of it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,002 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    Leinster won 18s clubs interpros today
    Super game. Leinster have the biggest team ive seen in a long time at 18s level especially in the backs with likes of Nash, O Brien et al.
    Bodes well for 18 international games this year from the 2 games ive seen
    Also saw part of the Munster Connacht 19s game.. decent game from what I saw of it.

    Just seeing a bunch of the U19's teams contain both schools and club players. http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/domestic/14058.php#.VgsByWRVikp

    Is this a new thing?

    Usually they kept the club and school sides separate?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Just seeing a bunch of the U19's teams contain both schools and club players. http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/domestic/14058.php#.VgsByWRVikp

    Is this a new thing?

    Usually they kept the club and school sides separate?
    Tim there has been combined sides since 2010 at under 19 level. Certainly not a new thing. Before that there was a schools side for those still attending the non exempted schools and then a side for those playing in clubs and where they attended school was irrelevant

    Have you or will you be attending any club age grade games any time this season?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,002 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    Tim there has been combined sides since 2010 at under 19 level. Certainly not a new thing. Before that there was a schools side for those still attending the non exempted schools and then a side for those playing in clubs and where they attended school was irrelevant
    I didn't realise that. Here's a Leinster U19 team from 2012

    http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/news/1798.php#.VgsO3GRViko which has a few club players but I guess the current team just bucks the wave in that there are a lot more club players and from outside South Dublin so I was wondering is that a reflection that these clubs are getting stronger at this level and are at a par with the strongest schools or is it a case that the powers that be want to see how a few youth players perform at a higher level?
    Have you or will you be attending any club age grade games any time this
    Unfortunately hard to get the time with other commitments. But it good to hear the various updates on this forum.


  • Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭unce09f


    so I was wondering is that a reflection that these clubs are getting stronger at this level and are at a par with the strongest schools or is it a case that the powers that be want to see how a few youth players perform at a higher level?

    a top club side wouldn't be on par with a top schools side. But the very top club players are improving.

    That u19 side is a reflection of a weaker than usual schools crop from the 1997 age grade especially the forwards and a stronger than usual club side from the 1997 age grade especially the forwards.

    It will be interesting to see in a years time how the u20 side looks in terms of schools versus clubs and how that translates in terms of the academy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    I didn't realise that. Here's a Leinster U19 team from 2012

    http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/news/1798.php#.VgsO3GRViko which has a few club players but I guess the current team just bucks the wave in that there are a lot more club players and from outside South Dublin so I was wondering is that a reflection that these clubs are getting stronger at this level and are at a par with the strongest schools or is it a case that the powers that be want to see how a few youth players perform at a higher level?
    At least 5 of that side came through the clubs set up though 1 or 2 went to a non exempt school for a year or two. The clubs are getting stronger but individually they wont match any of the schools do to weight of numbers per school etc
    The coaching teams don't pick like that. They pick the best players regardless of background. They don't pick guys from the clubs to just try them at the level. Again don't be so naïve....
    Unfortunately hard to get the time with other commitments. But it good to hear the various updates on this forum.
    Just thought you should so you could actually see the standard etc and then would be able to actually discuss this topic without using generalisations that are out of date etc
    unce09f wrote: »
    a top club side wouldn't be on par with a top schools side. But the very top club players are improving.

    That u19 side is a reflection of a weaker than usual schools crop from the 1997 age grade especially the forwards and a stronger than usual club side from the 1997 age grade especially the forwards.

    It will be interesting to see in a years time how the u20 side looks in terms of schools versus clubs and how that translates in terms of the academy.
    The schools may get dominance at 20s at the guys in the non exempt schools will be playing 19s grade rugby and possibly seen more than some of the clubs guys who will be playing all manners of rugby. Some playing 20s club/some ail. Hard to say.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,002 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    The coaching teams don't pick like that. They pick the best players regardless of background. They don't pick guys from the clubs to just try them at the level. Again don't be so naïve....

    Just thought you should so you could actually see the standard etc and then would be able to actually discuss this topic without using generalisations that are out of date etc
    I apologise for not being up to your standards of knowledge and for being naive.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    I apologise for not being up to your standards of knowledge and for being naive.
    Tim coaches are not going to pick club guys and play them in interpros to just see them at a higher level. They are doing it to all the players as none will have played at interpro level before.

    Anyway. Several rounds of games have been played in the Munster under 16/18 phase 1 leagues and seems like leagues are going ok. Only a few clubs struggling to field and most going very well.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Anyway. Several rounds of games have been played in the Munster under 16/18 phase 1 leagues and seems like leagues are going ok. Only a few clubs struggling to field and most going very well.

    There are a few "fake" results in there unfortunately, hiding issues with a few teams still not fielding..

    But the games that have been played seem to be going well -


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    There are a few "fake" results in there unfortunately, hiding issues with a few teams still not fielding..

    But the games that have been played seem to be going well -
    Only a small number are like that. Are you involved with a club/team this season?
    Issues in some areas around player availability still. Should be sorted out in next week or two so hopefully things can really kick off soon....
    Have seen a few games and standards are getting better and better.....


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Only a small number are like that. Are you involved with a club/team this season?
    Issues in some areas around player availability still. Should be sorted out in next week or two so hopefully things can really kick off soon....
    Have seen a few games and standards are getting better and better.....

    Yes.. Coaching a team at 16's

    Of the 8 teams originally in our group , 2 haven't fielded yet 3 rounds in and another amalgamated with another team and so moved to another group...

    We're 3 from 3 so far so it's going well for us..

    Looking forward to a higher standard of play in the later rounds...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    Yes.. Coaching a team at 16's

    Of the 8 teams originally in our group , 2 haven't fielded yet 3 rounds in and another amalgamated with another team and so moved to another group...

    We're 3 from 3 so far so it's going well for us..

    Looking forward to a higher standard of play in the later rounds...
    Refereed teams at under 16s and 18s so far but not in the league. There will be issues with fielding for next week or two but things should be ok by middle of October. Obviously not great for those who can field comfortably now but should be ok soon enough.


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