First Date Etiquette; When 'The Bill' comes

montane

MissFlitworth wrote: »

Oh, I'm sorry, I think I was being a bit too subtle. What I was getting at is that you're telling complete porky pies about this 'friend'. Funnily enough every single time a thread gets started on boards about women and what they should pay for or expect to have bought for them someone pops up with a similar 'friend'. Dublin is seemingly crawling with these women out Thursday to Saturday scabbing free drinks and Sunday to Wednesday for their free dinners

You are incorrect and basing your assertion on nothing more than a feeling of abhorrence for a type of behaviour a female partakes in. The sole intention may not be for "free dinners", I am not quite sure of the motivation of a 28 year old single female. As for your misleading extrapolation of hundreds of dinners a year, I said this has not being going on for a year and would probably not be sustainable over that time period. As regards trends of comments emerging on threads "about women", I wouldn't know.

Poor Craythur

Whoever asked for the date should pay, male or female.

Seems a bit cheeky of a woman to ask a man out then expect him to pay.

Poor Craythur

montane wrote: »

I know of one attractive girl who goes out on a Saturday night. She lets men buy her drinks for most of the night, and gathers numbers.

Then on two or three nights of the following weeks she organises dates, and gets fed for free in nice restaurants. She doesnt really have much intention of pursuing anything with these men.

Hope she gets fat from all that eating out! :P:D

Women like that never consider that they'll get older and lose their looks. One day she'll wake up, realise she's not attracting the attention she used to and have a rude awakening.

Daisies

I will always offer to pay half/ pay for the wine. If he objects and we go for drinks after, I will get the first round and the do alternate rounds.

Seeing as I'd never have the b*lls to ask a guy out, it would never happen that I would have the other situation

Snoopy1

Id never have the guts to ask a guy out either

we'llallhavetea_old

always offer to pay if i have it tbh. if i don't have at least my share of the price, i wouldn't agree to go on the date tbh. i would suggest a cheaper/free alternative.

krudler

Snoopy1 wrote: »

Id never have the guts to ask a guy out either

why? if you like someone surely its easier to just ask him out than hoping he does it first and wondering? been asked out a few times, its a really nice feeling.

Dudess

A blanket insistence that the man should pay just seems to be based on "because that's the way things are". I've read here some men saying they'd feel emasculated if they didn't pay in full for dinner on the first date too. I love romance and I like chivalry and don't mind a bit of "manly protector" type stuff, but I don't think any of the above are of relevance when it comes to money.
I've always offered to pay half, and not just to pay lip service - it's been genuine. Most guys tend to prefer to pay the full thing though.

Snoopy1

krudler wrote: »

why? if you like someone surely its easier to just ask him out than hoping he does it first and wondering? been asked out a few times, its a really nice feeling.

Totally afraid of rejection

Daisies

krudler wrote: »

why? if you like someone surely its easier to just ask him out than hoping he does it first and wondering? been asked out a few times, its a really nice feeling.

Too true, but it's easier said than done! I know in my case, I am chicken sh!t and just don't have the confidence to do it.

HellFireClub

enol wrote: »

I can't believe there isn't already a thread on this so here goes:
Whats the general consensus on the guy paying for a meal on a FIRST date? If the guy initiates the date and picks the location, should he pick up the tab when the bill comes? If you offered to pay your share and it was accepted without hesitation, would you find it unimpressive?
Both the man & woman are 30-ish and in full time employment and only met once before the date.
I'd love to get the opinions from other Irish women on the dating scene, thanks.

You know guys often kind of observe this very situation as a bit of a test to see how a girl might deal with such a situation as it really does say a lot about her character, as it also does for the guy I think, being fair to both genders...

I think a decent genuine guy fully expects to pay for dinner for a date, regardless of who asks who out. This going dutch thing on a first date I think is for muppets who haven't a clue what they are at and I genuinely believe that it is the last refuge of the hungry/miserable scoundrel.

Usuallly a girl will politely offer to pay for half/go Dutch, but any guy who takes up that offer on the basis of it having been automatically extended, I think is pure mean/stingy and to my mind, it demonstrates a fault in the guy by allowing the bill to land on the table to begin with.

By all means if the girl insists on getting you a pint or two after the meal or whatever, that's very considerate and to be accepted I think, it's give and take, but I think any guy worth his salt will have the bill for dinner well settled before this subject comes up for discussion.

Having said all of the above, I wouldn't end up on such a "dinner/meal", date with a girl unless I had been on 1-2 low key dates already and had a fairly consistent positive gut feeling on the whole thing at that stage...

Azureus

I like it when the guy foots the bill for the first date, whether it be cinema/dinner, whatever! The nicest thing is when you go to the bathroom and come back to find the bill all sorted, Im very impressed by that

That said I will always come prepared with the money to pay my way and I will always offer. Obviously I prefer if this offer isnt take up but I only agree to go on dates with guys I am definately interested in so I wouldnt see it as taking advantage. If im not sure, I would suggest pool and drinks or something to that effect where we would pay our own way/do rounds.

If I asked the guy, I would fully expect to pay, but again would find it impressive if he took care of the bill. When Im with a guy its all 50/50 but theres something about a guy refusing to pay for a girl on the first date that suggests more (personal circumstances/jobs etc taken into consideration obviously). He wont splash out once on a first date, does that mean hes not interested enough? Doesn't think im worth it? If hes not old school enough for that, would he mind occasionally helping me with my bags or opening doors for me? I like old school manners so does it suggest that he doesnt have that...

Maybe I just think too much

Count Duckula

I'm a guy and this is tLL so feel free to ignore this opinion!

On a first date I would always offer to pay, and be prepared to, because I know that for a lot of people (both men and women) that gesture has a lot of importance attached to it and I wouldn't want to offend my date partner.

However, I must admit, if a girl didn't at least suggest she pay her half, I'd be a little unimpressed. Dancing around for the sake of it, perhaps, but even I do end up paying for the lot I'd like to know that she was willing to pay her half. In a way it makes it more romantic, because you're doing something above and beyond what she would expect, rather than paying for the meal simply because you're a bloke and it's therefore "the done thing".

First date I went on with my current girlfriend we had drinks in Hyde Park. Hers was much more expensive than mine and she offered to pay for it, but I wouldn't let her. That's fine, in my opinion. She would have paid for it if I'd let her without complaining, but I was able to make a nice gesture, rather than having it simply assumed that I would pay with no real thanks.

I guess my point is that a lot of guys do want to pay for the first meal / drinks, but at the same time a woman shouldn't simply expect them to. If the girl assumes that the boy will buy everything then it takes away from the romantic part of the gesture itself, and simply makes her look a little bit like a freeloader.

G86

If the guy paid for dinner then I'd make sure I sort out the drinks, and vice versa. I've dated guys before where they always insisted on paying, and once or twice is fine, but when it became a regular thing it just made me feel uncomfortable to be honest.

Nervous Wreck

I reckon these sortsa things would always run a lot smoother if people would just chill the fcuk out and stop worrying so much about the 'etiquette' behind this whole thing. The whole he paid/she paid thing, when viewed as it is in this thread is nothing more than petty oneupmanship, whether it be from the man ("I'm paying cos I'm a man, grrr!" or the opposite "She should help pay cos I'm not a chump!") or the woman ("I'm paying cos I'm not one of those women, grrr!" or the opposite "He should pay cos it's the gentlemanly thing to do."). It's bullshít. I'm all for being generous and for appreciating generosity but jesus, people would be so much better off if they weren't so quick to judge others on their own take on the clash between a long-standing social convention and a newer, more egalitarian view. It's just money and it's just a bita food. Go out and enjoy your dates for what they are. Cos if you continue to place such importance on such trivial details like who insisted more, you're gonna end up having to go on a lot of crap first dates.

krudler

Snoopy1 wrote: »

Totally afraid of rejection

Welcome to a mans world when it comes to asking women out

krudler

First date= bring her to your place and cook her dinner. Problem solved

Poor Craythur

krudler wrote: »

First date= bring her to your place and cook her dinner. Problem solved

I actually really like this idea. Plus if it goes will, no delay in having the shex. But first date sex is a whoooolle other issue.

krudler

Poor Craythur wrote: »

I actually really like this idea. Plus if it goes will, no delay in having the shex. But first date sex is a whoooolle other issue.

Thinking about it I've only ever gone to dinner on a first date once, first dates are usually meeting for a quiet drink or going somewhere for an afternoon for me, dinner usually comes after meeting a couple of times so I guess you know at that stage someone isnt just after a free dinner. Cooking at home is much more fun anyway, you can have everything ready when she calls over or if she's there beforehand you can yack away in the kitchen as you're finishing getting stuff ready, plus pulling desserts you already made out of the freezer always impresses :cool:

ibarelycare

This is why I would NEVER go for dinner on a first date. I get embarrassed and awkward about the whole money thing. I prefer going for drinks and then buying alternate rounds. If it's cinema, one person can buy tickets, the other person can buy munchies.

And for the first few weeks with a new person, if we did go for dinner, I'd definitely insist on splitting the bill. The only way I'd accept him paying the full bill is if it was my birthday or something. When I'm with someone a while then I don't mind doing the whole "You get this one, I'll get the next one" thing.

krudler

ibarelycare wrote: »

This is why I would NEVER go for dinner on a first date. I get embarrassed and awkward about the whole money thing. I prefer going for drinks and then buying alternate rounds. If it's cinema, one person can buy tickets, the other person can buy munchies.

And for the first few weeks with a new person, if we did go for dinner, I'd definitely insist on splitting the bill. The only way I'd accept him paying the full bill is if it was my birthday or something. When I'm with someone a while then I don't mind doing the whole "You get this one, I'll get the next one" thing.

That sounds pretty spot on for me, avoid dinner as first dates until you've been out a few times and plan on seeing each other again,then just split or alternate it,everyones happy. I like treating someone to dinner just because at times but wouldnt like her expecting me to pay for it all the time.

HellFireClub

There is always a touch of Mrs Dineen and Mrs Doyle in the teashop scenario when the bill arrives on a first date, you get a bit of "I'm paying", "no Mrs Dineen put that away"...! It's nice for a girl to offer to pay for herself but I think any guy who is serious about what he is at will have the bill well sorted before the matter comes up for discussion...

Iwannahurl

Eleven years into the 21st Century and still no sign of an end to gender BS of all kinds.

S/he who initiates the date, selects the venue etc should pay IMO. If I invite you to a restaurant or my home, and then expect you to pay, that's just bad manners. It would look like I've invited you in order to subsidise my night's entertainment.

OTOH, it's just playing mind games to offer to pay half and then to be miffed when your offer is accepted. That kind of thing wrecks my head.

Apolloyon

I appreciate that the TLL is mainly for the women's point of view. So i hope it's ok for a guy to post on this.

I've always had a preference that first dates be kind of 'coffee dates'. It gives us a chance to talk in quieter surroundings. I find these are usually the best way to determine if there is something there. Although I consider myself a gentleman. I don't feel that the point of that is to 'always pay' for first dates. What if the other person feels they need to oblige a second date even if they don't feel anything just to 'balance up'. So that's why I prefer to split the bill on the initial date.

No, for me. It's best to start off something like that on the right note and treat each other as equals. I think that's far more respectful IMHO. Then if for instance I ask for a second date and she accepts, I would have no problem offering to pay. I think fo me personally, this is a more honest approach.

I respect the fact that other people's expectations and experiences are different. This is just what works for me. I am always straight up about it and I've gotten a fair few second dates and more on these occasions so I can't be doing it completely wrong! Just sharing a different point of view here, that's all!

kingtut

I think it is old fashioned to say that the man SHOULD pay, it's 2011 after all!!

From my (male) perspective I always pay the full thing on a first date however I would always be put off if she didn't offer to contribute. I would always decline the offer however it shows me that she is willing to pay her way and is not just with me for my money.

HellFireClub

It's mad the pyschology of the whole thing from a guy's perspective... Because speaking as a guy, I'll be paying, but should I get the impression that it's not appreciated or kind of taken for granted that I'll be paying, in my head I'd probably start suspecting that I'm in the company of someone who is mean themselves or is looking for someone to wine and dine them and that would be the end of that I think, but that's me, I can't stand meanness or lack of humility or genuine appreciation in a person. I suppose I'm just making the point that there is a bit of a thin line there when it comes to how the gesture is received by a girl...

Neyite

HellFireClub wrote: »

Mrs Dineen and Mrs Doyle in the teashop scenario when the bill arrives on a first date, you get a bit of "I'm paying", "no Mrs Dineen put that away".....

Thats totally what I was thinking of too.

pow wow

I'd rather he offered to pay but if he didn't then I'd suggest we split it without being offended or feeling let down so to speak. I wouldn't pay the whole bill unless I knew he couldn't afford his share. (This is me saying what's probably not the 'right' thing Faith ) I'd only think it actually rude of him not to offer to pay for the whole thing if he made a bajillion bucks and I didn't.

Twee.

I would always offer to go halves, I'd never go out on a date with an empty wallet, expecting to be paid for. If he does pay (which, if I'm on honest, it's always worked out that way for me on a first date), then I'll get some drinks in if we go to a bar afterwards. If we're at the cinema and he gets the tickets, I'll get the sweets and treats! If we're meeting for drinks, I'd alternate rounds.
But as mentioned, some guys just want to pay for everything. At Eddie Rocket's a few weeks ago (hardly Michelan star prices ) I took the bill to pay as he'd just paid for the cinema. He was having none of it and just swiped the bill from my hand!
On another recent date, I got up to get the drinks after we'd finished our first round and he was genuinely surprised!

So, yeah, I'd always offer and never expect to be paid for. And that helps when your type tends to be starving artists and musicians!

Ickle Magoo

HellFireClub wrote: »

This going dutch thing on a first date I think is for muppets who haven't a clue what they are at and I genuinely believe that it is the last refuge of the hungry/miserable scoundrel.

Or students...when I was dating I was a student and so were the guys I was dating - I don't think it's unusual to go dutch at all, or at least it wasn't when & where I was a student. Regardless, it worked for me and that's all that matters, if others think its mean or whatever then I wish them luck in the dating game in whatever way they wish to play it.

I just think it's terribly old fashioned for a guy to have to be left €X out of pocket for a situation we are both using to assess if there is potential for a relationship. If it's a shared experience and one we are both wanting to have, why would/should the financial responsibility lie automatically with one person based entirely on their gender?

I think it's much fairer to go dutch until parties have concluded whether or not this is someone they want to invest in and treat each other rather than as some archaic and elaborate show of financial mobility.